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@Danny Dabbs,
Does nobody read for comprehension anymore!?!? Is there anyone who will verify what I am saying?? What I am finding is why I walked away from christianity. I began asking questions I was apparently NOT suppose to be asking and at one point was told by a pastor I shouldn’t study so much and pray more. What was he afraid of, me discovering…THE TRUTH!
Isa 53:9 translated from the Hebrew (found on biblehub) when translated says “in his deaths”, I didn’t write this, Isaiah did! The christian interpreters mistranslated the Hebrew text. Even the NET bible admits this plurality seems to be out of place and attributes it as being a “mistake” and “fixes” it to the singular; BIG PROBLEM, the Hebrew text has it in the plural. Will you say that isn’t messing with G-d word?
You can site the JPS verbiage as being the same as the christian’s, but it’s still NOT the original text and it someone’s interpretation.
Isaiah 53 became extremely important to the christian world, just NOT in the first century; it became important later because it “sounded” like the Jesus. It makes one wonder if the story of the Jesus was written around this chapter; not once is Isaiah 53 cited in the gospels.
Interestingly recorded in Contra Celsum, Book I chapter 54, 55, a work by the Church Father Origen of Alexandria, written around 248 CE; chapter 54 has the passage from Isaiah 52:13-53:8 and 55 has the response of “certain Jews, who were reckoned wise men.” Their reply, “that these predictions bore reference to the whole people, regarded as one individual, and as being in a state of dispersion and suffering, in order that many proselytes might be gained, on account of the dispersion of the Jews among numerous heathen nations.” It would seem the third century Jew also believed Isaiah 53 was a reference to the nation as a whole.
Proclaimer, you go on to quote from Mark 4:11-12, except you left out verse 12 where the Jesus says he speaks in parables so the everyone other than the disciples would not perceive or understand and therefore not turn from their wicked ways and repent. How does the Jesus fulfill the last portion of 53:9 where there was “no deceit in his mouth”? I call that being deceitful, how about you?!? Let’s not forget the “violence” the Jesus did!
If the expression “his death” was in the plural, the expression “his grave” would ALSO be in the plural.
How many “graves” can one person be buried in? Why are you shooting the messenger, I’m reading the original text!! The text your OT is based upon! Jump back to 43:10 “Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Is G-d using a plural form of witnesses when referring to the singular servant? Also, has one forgotten, THIS IS POETRY and G-d refers to the nation of Israel in the singular many time throughout the Tanakh. So the grave would be for the individual and the deaths are for the many who were killed because of the brutality of the nations while the Israelite’s were in exile…Isaiah was writing while Israel was in exile because of THEIR SIN AND REBELLION AGAINST G-D!!! Have you read any other chapter in this book other than 53? How do you NOT understand this?!?!!?
Please read the above response to Danny and Proclaimer concerning Origen and the Jewish understanding in the third century of this “suffering servant.”
You still haven’t addressed the facts recorded in the NT of the Jesus being violent and deceitful! So he doesn’t fit this servant being described in 53. You still haven’t identified the pronouns throughout the chapter, who is speaking where; and until you do, you will be lost, dazed, and confused in your understanding of what is written.
Prove me wrong; still waiting!!!
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