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Ed,
I accept Kerwin's answer because it has both a “YES” and “NO” in it, and explains the reason for that YES and NO in an easy to understand manner.
On the other hand, I can't see a YES or a NO in your answer to his simple question.
A little bit of a double standard on your part aye? You accept Kerwin's yes/no answer but not mine?
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2013,14:59) Ed, I did answer it in a yes or no format though I included a comment with the answer.
Quote Ed,
… No, Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac because God stopped him.I take it you do not like Kerwin's so-called yes/no formatting either, huh?
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,22:37)
Yes, I accept the definition based on the definition the word “offer” to mean “PRESENT”
and the definition of “sacrifice” to mean “GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”. (<– these are the true definitions)HA ha ha ha ha!!!
Ed,
Try to be reasonable here. Did Abraham offer his son as a burnt offering? Of course not, because Isaac was never burned up in the fire.
Did he offer to offer his son as a burnt offering? Yes.
He was willing, but did not actually offer his son as a burnt offering.
The NIV is accurate in their translation. End of story.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,05:02) Ed, I accept Kerwin's answer because it has both a “YES” and “NO” in it, and explains the reason for that YES and NO in an easy to understand manner.
On the other hand, I can't see a YES or a NO in your answer to his simple question.
Perhaps you need to look again then.Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,22:37) No, I don't accept the definition with the meaning you are attributing to “offer” based
on your misconception of the word “sacrifice” to mean the same thing as “OFFER”. (<– this is your circular logic fallacy)
(see definition in my last post)
Yes, I accept the definition based on the definition the word “offer” to mean “PRESENT”
and the definition of “sacrifice” to mean “GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”. (<– these are the true definitions)His answer is according to two different definitions of the word “offer”. Apparently, the dictionaries, Kerwin, me, and the NIV all understand these two different meanings of “offer”………. while you don't.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,05:06) Ed, Try to be reasonable here. Did Abraham offer his son as a burnt offering? Of course not, because Isaac was never burned up in the fire.
Did he offer to offer his son as a burnt offering? Yes.
He was willing, but did not actually offer his son as a burnt offering.
The NIV is accurate in their translation. End of story.
Hi Mike,We can start our conversation with this post after Kerwin and I have concluded our discussion.
If you cannot wait – I can always start another thread entitled “Mike on the Hot-seat”.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,05:10) His answer is according to two different definitions of the word “offer”. Apparently, the dictionaries, Kerwin, me, and the NIV all understand these two different meanings of “offer”………. while you don't. Mike I ask you to please try to refrain yourself from commenting on our posts in this thread; OK ?
I “OFFER” another conversation with you alone in another thread if you cannot wait
until me and Kerwin have concluded with our conversation in this thread.Having two separate conversations in the same thread will only act as a distraction
to my conversation with Kerwin. I hope you understand. And thanks
in advance for you not interrupting any more in this thread.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike,
You want me to edit into the first post that this thread is between myself and Kerwin only?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd,
Mike has a point in that you did not answer my question in the yes/no format you demand.
If I understand your answer is yes, as both offer and sacrifice can mean “TO GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”.
Ed,
You imply “sacrifice” can mean “TO KILL” and offer never does.
I question that as a burn offering is killed.
Abraham never offered Isaac as a burnt offering. He was prepared to though.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,22:37) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2013,04:18) Ed, Merriam-Websters
Quote : to present something as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice dictionary.com
Quote 16.
to present something as an act of worship or devotion; sacrifice.offer at Merriam-Websters and offer at dictionarycom
Do you except that these definitions of offer as sacrifice are correct?
Hi Kerwin,I see you are now trying to argue over misconceptions. Let me
explain things in an attempt to remove these misconceptions.
Now you're attempting to appeal with a circular logic fallacy:a use of reason in which the premises depends on OR IS EQUIVALENT TO THE CONCLUSION,
a method of false logic by which “this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this“;” (Link)The the word “sacrifice” means “TO KILL”; However the word
“sacrifice” in the context of the definition of the word “offer”
means “TO GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”. Your are (1)reading into this definition
(2)based on your incorrect presupposition (3)which you believe is supporting your erroneous conclusion.In other words, if I give a Girl a ring as an act of devotion: it is a “sacrifice” on my part – but is the ring dead? …of course NOT!
Now let me put this in words that you can grasp. The word “OFFER” means “TO PRESENT”, not to kill someone and present them dead.Did Abraham “offer” Isaac 'DEAD' to God? “Yes” or “No” (<– question #3)
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Kerwin,It's your turn to answer my question, then I will be glad to answer any question you may have.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuestion #3 Answered:
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,06:07) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,22:37)
Did Abraham “offer” Isaac 'DEAD' to God? “Yes” or “No” (<– question #3)Ed,
No, Abraham did not offer Abraham as a dead, burnt sacrifice to God.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,05:59) Ed, Mike has a point in that you did not answer my question in the yes/no format you demand.
If I understand your answer is yes, as both offer and sacrifice can mean “TO GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”.
IF this is your next question, can you please format it as a question.Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,12:37) Mike I ask you to please try to refrain yourself from commenting on our posts in this thread; OK ?
Okay. I'm really leaving this time!
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,01:35) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,05:59) Ed, Mike has a point in that you did not answer my question in the yes/no format you demand.
If I understand your answer is yes, as both offer and sacrifice can mean “TO GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”.
IF this is your next question, can you please format it as a question.
Ed,Actually, I am testing to insure I understood your answer to my question correctly. If I didn't then please try to rephrase your answer to my question so that I do. Thank you.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,17:19) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,01:35) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,05:59) Ed, Mike has a point in that you did not answer my question in the yes/no format you demand.
If I understand your answer is yes, as both offer and sacrifice can mean “TO GIVE UP” as in “TO NO LONGER HAVE”.
IF this is your next question, can you please format it as a question.
Ed,Actually, I am testing to insure I understood your answer to my question correctly. If I didn't then please try to rephrase your answer to my question so that I do. Thank you.
Hi Kerwin,My words were clear and concise to “My understanding”.
That is the purpose of our discussion is, to fully understand
the “others” view and to compare it to what the Scriptures say.
Rephrase my answer to fit your understanding if it doesn't, “huh”
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,17:23) Ed, My next question is, is a burnt offering dead?
Hi Kerwin,I will save you from having to ask an additional question.
“a burnt offering” is a “sacrifice”
If you don't want me aid you – by you requiring a “Yes” or a “No” response from me, just say so and I'll limit my help; OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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