Kerwin on the hotseat

[Ed J]

Kerwin is refusing to answer my question – from here…  (Link)

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Hi Kerwin,

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that
had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17)

Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<-- please answer)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

I see you are still attempting to duck my question.  (Link)

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Kerwin, you are required to answer my question.

Of course  “I don't know”  is always an option besides answering “Yes” or “No”.

If you continue to refuse to answer, I will be forced to report you post to a moderator for disciplinary action.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

Hebrews 11:17 NET ©
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. He had received the promises, 1  yet he was ready to offer up 2  his only son.

Footnote #2 says:
Grk “he was offering up.”  The tense of this verb indicates the attempt or readiness to sacrifice Isaac without the actual completion of the deed.

The word “offer” has many uses, as Kerwin and I have tried to explain to you.  In the first line of Hebrews 11:17, Paul's meaning of “offer” is:  The willingness to give.

But in the second line, the same word refers to “sacrifice”.

You have connected these two meanings – as if they are one and the same.  They are not.

In Genesis 22:2, God asked Abraham to offer his son AS A BURNT OFFERING.  In other words, God asked Abraham to SACRIFICE his son by killing and then burning him.

So here is a question for you:  What was Abraham's intention in taking his son, a knife, some rope, and some wood to the top of the mountain?  Ie:  What exactly was Abraham going to do with those things? (Please answer this time.)

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,15:33)

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Mike,

So is your answer “Yes” or “No” then?         (<– Note: My question is still for Kerwin though)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

The answer is “NO”, Ed.  Abraham was WILLING TO offer his son as a BURNT offering, but God stopped him before he actually OFFERED his son as a BURNT offering.

Now please answer MY question. You blew the question off in the other thread, and now it seems you have the same intentions in this thread. Why not answer it? This question is in the Hot Seat, right?

That being said, Kerwin needs to also give you a direct answer. Kerwin?

[kerwin]

Mike,

It is a trick question as Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).  

God commanded Abraham to offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice) Isaac as a burnt offering.

So it appears Ed is shifting the definition of “offer” from “sacrifice” to “tender” without realizing it and in doing so is going off topic.

That is my answer to Ed and does not vary from what I have been saying.

offer

[mikeboll64]

I agree, Kerwin.

It's like Genesis talked about an ocean wave, and Ed is insisting that it referred instead to someone waving at someone else.

And then Hebrews says both things, like He waved at them from atop the ocean wave.

And Ed is now using that second understanding of “wave” from Hebrews, applying it back to Genesis, and insisting that Hebrews confirms that Genesis was originally about someone waving – when it truly wasn't.

The Genesis meaning of “offer” was SOLELY “sacrifice”. In Hebrews, it speaks of a different meaning of “offer” (willingness to give), and then speaks of the original Genesis meaning of “offer” (sacrifice).

So the two uses of “offer” in Hebrews have two different meanings – but in Genesis it only ever had the one meaning of “sacrifice”.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2013,03:30)

Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2013,12:34) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,15:33) “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Mike, So is your answer “Yes” or “No” then?         (<– Note: My question is still for Kerwin though) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org The answer is “NO”, Ed.

Then you disagree with what Hebrews 11:17 says right?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2013,03:30)

The answer is “NO”, Ed.  Abraham was WILLING TO offer his son as a BURNT offering, but God stopped him before he actually OFFERED his son as a BURNT offering. Now please answer MY question.  You blew the question off in the other thread, and now it seems you have the same intentions in this thread.  Why not answer it?  This question is in the Hot Seat, right? That being said, Kerwin needs to also give you a direct answer.  Kerwin?

Hi Mike,

Q. Was Abraham was WILLING TO offer his son as a BURNT offering.        
A. Yes, because he did!
Q. but God stopped him before he actually OFFERED his son as a BURNT offering        
A. No, he did offer up Isaac, as Hebrew 11:17 clearly states!

And thanks for telling Kerwin that he needs to answer my question.  

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,06:05)

Mike, It is a trick question as Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).   God commanded Abraham to offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice) Isaac as a burnt offering. So it appears Ed is shifting the definition of “offer” from “sacrifice” to “tender” without realizing it and in doing so is going off topic. That is my answer to Ed and does not vary from what I have been saying. offer

Hi Kerwin,

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that
had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17)

Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer)

Note: Your only dodge available to you in the Hot-Seat is to say “I don't know”!
It is evident that YOU really don't know what you are talking about or are deceptive!

Now please answer my question!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Mods,

How can anything ever get nailed down,
if people are allowed to dodge simple questions.

My question is very simple, not a two part question as Mike has given; where one part is “Yes” and another part is “No”.
 “But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.” (Matt 5:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2013,03:30)

Abraham was WILLING TO offer his son as a BURNT offering, but God stopped him before he actually OFFERED his son as a BURNT offering.

Q. Was Abraham was WILLING TO offer his son as a BURNT offering,        
A. Yes, because he did!
Q. but God stopped him before he actually OFFERED his son as a BURNT offering.        
A. No, he did offer up Isaac, as Hebrew 11:17 clearly states!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2013,12:14)

Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,06:05) Mike, It is a trick question as Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).   God commanded Abraham to offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice) Isaac as a burnt offering. So it appears Ed is shifting the definition of “offer” from “sacrifice” to “tender” without realizing it and in doing so is going off topic. That is my answer to Ed and does not vary from what I have been saying. offer Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) Note: Your only dodge available to you in the Hot-Seat is to say “I don't know”! It is evident that YOU really don't know what you are talking about or are deceptive! Now please answer my question! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

Offer is to vague of a word. What do you mean? I do not feel like guessing and I already answered you anyways by quoting the NIV.

Here is your direct question.

Does offer mean sacrifice in some contexts?

[kerwin]

Ed,

Yes, Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but No, He did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 30 2013,02:10)

Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2013,12:14) Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) Note: Your only dodge available to you in the Hot-Seat is to say “I don't know”! It is evident that YOU really don't know what you are talking about or are deceptive! Now please answer my question! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Offer is to vague of a word.  What do you mean?

Hi Kerwin,

QUIT TRYING TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION AND ANSWER MINE.

By “offer up” I mean “offer unto” – now which is it “Yes” or “No”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 30 2013,02:30)

Ed, Yes, Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but No, He did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).

I didn't ask about acceptance or rejection, nor did I ask about worship or devotion.

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2013,23:35)

Quote (kerwin @ July 30 2013,02:30) Ed, Yes, Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but No, He did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice). I didn't ask about acceptance or rejection, nor did I ask about worship or devotion.

Ed,

Then tell me what you did ask as both answers I gave are definitions of offer.

You have not yet answered my direct question.

[kerwin]

Ed,

What do you mean by the word “offer” in the words “offer unto”?

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 30 2013,05:00)

Ed, What do you mean by the word “offer” in the words “offer unto”?

present

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2013,00:13)

Then you disagree with what Hebrews 11:17 says right?

Not at all, Ed.

Abraham either DID offer up his son as a BURNT offering, or he DIDN'T.

So the only question is: Was Isaac ever BURNT on the fire?

Since the answer is “NO”, then the answer to your question is also “NO”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,09:30)

Ed, Yes, Abraham did offer(to present for acceptance or rejection:tender) but No, He did not offer(to present as an act of worship or devotion : sacrifice).

Ed,

I accept this as Kerwin's DIRECT and HONEST answer to your question.

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