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Mike……right on , Jesus is the word of God, that came to reality, as the flesh man Jesus. Jesus himself is not God’s word itself. He is the spokesman , who has delivered God the Fathers words to us, just as he clearly said he was. Jesus is not equal to God , never was or ever will be. GOD and his word are one and the same .
Good to see you back descussing things that really count brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene
You don’t tell the biblical truth
Yet Revelation 19 reveals the mystery of Who is “the Word”
PLEASE READAnd I saw the open sky, and here is a white horse; and he who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and with justice he judged and waged war.
[12] His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a written name, which nobody knew, but himself.
[13] And he was dressed in a garment soaked in blood, and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD.“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” (Heb 11:3)“so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear” – what does this imply?
Answer: Jesus appeared – therefore things could not have come from him
Conclusion – Jesus is NOT “The Word”
“the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me” (John 14:10)
Pretty simple really! Why is it so difficult for the religiously indoctrinated?
God’s Holy Spirit is part of Him
And “the WORD” was God….
So The HOLY SPIRIT IS PART OF “THE WORD”
This is the Power of God (the Son)
by whom He create the world.
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(Hebrews 1:)
by whom also he made the worlds;
By whom = BY JESUS CHRIST
THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD
Your passage tells you what you need to know. God spoke through prophets in the past. The prophets were not the God who spoke through them. Then God spoke through his Son. The Son was not the God who spoke through him.
True, God created all things THROUGH Jesus, but as Origen (I believe) wrote, “He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing was created is another.”
The apostles prayer in Acts 4 should settle it though, as they pray TO the one who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them… and they make their prayer THROUGH that one’s holy servant Jesus Christ. And this was after Jesus was back in heaven at the right hand of his and our God. (John 20:17)
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Heb 1:2)Hi Berean,
He (God) made the worlds by Jesus’ crucifixion.
“the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If any man have an ear, let him hear.” (Rev 13:8-9)For you to believe what you believe, you would also have to believe these verses are wrong:
“Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I the LORD that maketh all things;
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad;” (Isaiah 44:24-2)“O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God,
even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.” (Isaiah 37:16)Revelation 13:8
… everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.This is a much better translation of the Greek text.
Pretty simple really! Why is it so difficult for the religiously indoctrinated?
To be fair Edj, if you have a virtue, your name can reflect that.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God
He is called the Word of God for a reason.
Hi Edj an all
There is, however, no contradiction in the Word of God. I stayed a long time not understanding but now I believe that when the bible says: “I, the Lord, who do all things; stretching the sky alone; who spreads the earth by myself; ” IT IS THE SOURCE OF LIFE THAT IS INDICATED, IT IS GOD SAY THE FATHER … THE WRITER DOES NOT MENTION THE CHANNEL OF LIFE AS THE APOSTLE PAUL DOES IN 1 CORINTHIANS 8 …. nevertheless for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom all things come and for whom we are, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom all things are and by whom we are . In this verse Paul mentions God the Father as THE SOURCE of all things (OF WHOM) and also JESUS CHRIST as LE CANAL (BY WHOM) by who are all things IN COLLOSSIANS HE’S ONLY CHANNEL (Jesus Christ) Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he (Jesus / theWord) is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. It is a wonderful text.
God bless
Derean……the word “by” is tripping you up, it should be translated “for the sake of”. Jesus is the finish product for why God created everything. And we are to come to the full measure and stature of Christ . That’s the purpose for all this physical creation that God “alone and by himself”, has created. His purpose of the whole creation is summed up in Christ Jesus.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene
You:
Jesus is the finished product of the reason God created everything.
Me:
Jesus is not a finished product…
HE IS THE ONE BY WHOM GOD CREATED THE WORLD…
THE KING JAMES BIBLE LIKE MOST BIBLES MAKE SENSE…
Unitarianism has fallen, fallen, fallen…
Mike
You
“everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.”
The GOOD VERSION (TEXTUS RECEPTUS)
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
“kai proskunhsousin autw panteV oi katoikounteV epi thV ghV wn ou gegraptai ta onomata en th biblw thV zwhV tou arniou esfagmenou apo katabolhV kosmou”
God bless
This Bible version proves that Jesus existed BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and that he was already “THE LAMB OF GOD SAINTS”
This Bible version proves that Jesus existed BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and that he was already “THE LAMB OF GOD SLAIN. “
Berean, please read the NET draft version towards the bottom of the page, as it just translates the Greek words in the order they were written.
http://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Rev&chapter=13&verse=8
Then read footnote 2 at the bottom of the page, and check out the other Revelation verse they list.
I’d like to hear what you thought of the prayer in Acts 4. Do you understand who they were praying to? Can you see that this one created the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them? Can you further see that the apostles named Jesus, not AS this one, but as the holy servant OF this one? What do you make of that? Who created? Who is the servant of that one?
Hi Mike
What if you see the Son of Man going up where he was before? John 6:62
I checked the link you posted. It doesn’t change anything for me, Jesus is the Lamb of God “slain, predestined, known, BEFORE the foundation of the world.
when Adam and Eve Sinned, Jesus was already the Lamb of God and the mediator between God and the first fallen couple.
He is interposed between God and the sinful couple so that he does not die immediately.
If Jesus * THE SON OF GOD WASN’T THE LAMB OF GOD WHO AID FOR FISHERMEN, ADAM AND EVE WOULD BE DEAD ON THE SAME DAY.IT IS JESUS WHO DRIVED THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL IN THE DESERT AND WHO SPIRITUALLY WATERED IT;
PAUL LE SAYS
1COR.10: 4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.About Acts 4:24
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
There is no problem
It is not the only New Testament text that speaks this way, and not all authors mention how God created the worlds.
In Revelation 4:11
We have a similar statement:Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for your pleasure they are and were created.
HERE the 24 Elders do not mention By whom God created all things.
Paul for example in Colossians, mentions that it is BY CHRIST:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him :
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.AND THE WORD WAS GOD
AMEN
GOD BLESS
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