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Ed J,
It is clear God first acknowledged Jesus as his Son at the Jordon.Wrong,
It is clear God first acknowledged Jesus as his Son at his conception.And Got sent his son into the world.
A number of people here have shown flawed thinking, It goes like this.
If the word is an attribute of God, then the Word cannot be Jesus.
If wisdom is an attribute of God, then Wisdom cannot be a pre-incarnate Jesus.Okay, so let’s look at truth. We know that is an attribute of God. But Jesus said he was THE Truth. Same for Life.
It stands to reason that people are named after attributes and often the definite article can distinguish whether it is a person or not.
I know a girl called ‘Grace’. Yes she really exists even though ‘grace’ is an attribute of God,
Peter was a ‘rock’ or ‘stone’ and he really existed even though God is the Rock.
Come on you guys, this is basic stuff. I shouldn’t have to teach such simple basic things to you.
Even my five year old understands this.
T8…..THE WORD OF GOD is not an atribute it is GOD and represents his totality , JUST AS YOUR WORDS ARE YOU, and represent you totality. That is not the same as using an atribute to describe a “aspect” of a person OR SOMETHING, like wisdom, which is a atribute that anyone can have. The name PETER WAS GIVEN, TO PETER because he exhibited an atribute of a rock, could be he was stubborn or hard headed or some other atribute he possessed, but PETER HIMSELF WAS NO ACTUAL ROCK AT ALL. JESUS BEING CALLED THE WORD OF GOD is also an atribute he has because he brings to us the words of GOD the FATHER. But he himself is not the source of those words he brings us, GOD the Father is the source of them and produced them in Jesus, VIA HIS SPIRIT, who spoke them to us, JUST THE SAME AS THE PROPHETS DID. IT WAS GOD THE FATHER SPEAKING TO US IN BOTH CASES, THROUGH THE PROPHETS AND JESUS CHRIST.
YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE GOD’S WORDS SEPERATE FROM GOD, BY SAYING JESUS IS ACTUALLY THE WORDS HE WAS SPEAKING TO US. JESUS NEVER SAID THAT , IN FACT HE SAID THE WORDS HE WAS SPEAKING WERE NOT “HIS” WORDS , BUT THE WORDS OF HIM THAT SENT HIM.
Jesus was not sent from HEAVEN INTO THE WORLD, EXCEPT IN THE SENSE, IT WAS GOD THE FATHER WHO WAS IN HEAVEN WHO CAME INTO HIM AND LEAD HIM, HE WAS THE ONE WHO SENT JESUS FROM HIS EARTHELY DWELLING WHERE HE LIVED, OUT INTO THE WORLD, AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED AND TESTED IN THE WILDERNESS, THEN HE WAS SENT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, INTO THE WORLD TO PREACH THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Hi t8.
Jn17.18
‘As you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world”
So if the apostles were not pre existent beings why would you think the man Jesus was ?
The Word was with God, not the man Jesus.
Nick,
Jesus is an over-comer because he always walked according to the Spirit and not to the flesh and so is revealed to be the Author of the faith. (Hebrews 12:2)
It is said about those that walk according to the flesh, the old human, that “there is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10) but it is said about those that walk by the Spirit that they do not sin even though tempted as common to humans (Hebrews 4:15) because they are like God in true righteousness and holiness. (Ephesians 4:24)
It is impossible to do all that is right without the Spirit but what is impossible with man, which is to say the flesh, is possible with God, whom works through his Spirit.
Hi KW,
Yet you only have your dogma to support you.
You have found no proof that Jesus was a divine being or was anointed prior to birth or at any other time before the Jordan.
You stand alone against scripture
t8,
Other scripture teach us human is a human being conceived through a miracle of God, received the Spirit from God, born of a virgin, continued to live his mortality and afterwards continuously walking according to the Spirit, choosing to sacrifice himself in his mercy for those in darkness, resurrected by the power of the Spirit of holiness because he did not earn the wages of sin, ascending to heaven as a human to receive his reward from God and mediate the new covenant still as a human being.
It is only hard to understand passages like the first chapter of John that those that lack knowledge or are corrupt misinterpret that are used to support claims that Jesus has ever been or is other than human.
Nick,
I am not claiming that Jesus has ever been other than a human being.
I am claiming Jesus has always walked by the Spirit and not by the flesh and so became the Author of the new covenant. You should know this since the instruction of the new covenant is to put off old man that was buried with him in death and put on your new man whom lives by the Spirit and that arose from the grave in him. The new man who is created like God in true holiness and righteousness.
The new covenant is not written on stone like the old one but it is instead written on the hearts and minds of believers and placed. Jesus was and is the first believer it was done with. God in his pleasure at Jesus’ faith appointed him to be the Christ before the world began.
Nick,
It does both.
Isaiah 55:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11
so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.As with his word so with his Spirit.
He sends it one time to accomplish one thing he pleases and then sends it another time to accomplish another thing. It is the Spirit so he can sent it multiple places at the same time and/or the same place multiple times.
You know this as you know that two believers at two different locations can receive the Spirit at exactly the same time while others at even more locations are walking by the same Spirit. You also know that the Advocate is a new thing because God said he was doing something new in putting his Law in his people and writing it on their hearts and that is what is and does by teaching. Jesus is the one he chose to be the first.
Hi KW,
Gal5
“If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit”
No man lives by the Spirit until he has been reborn from above
T8…..THE WORD OF GOD is not an atribute it is GOD
You deny that God has the logos within him then.
Then you say he is all logos. Well he is also love. If he is 100% logos only, then how can he be love.
Your argument appears to be flawed again.
Nick,
No one lives by the Spirit until he has been born again from above at that includes Jesus Christ.
Jesus is a son of man because he was conceived and born of a woman and he is a son of God because he was conceived and born of the Spirit.
He is the chief son of each, aka the Son, because he is the Christ.
The old man walk by the flesh, aka the nature of fallen man, and the new man walks by the Spirit and so has a righteousness and holiness that is like God’s. Jesus had that righteousness and holiness before the Jordon.
Hi t8.
Jn17.18
‘As you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world”
So if the apostles were not pre existent beings why would you think the man Jesus was ?
The Word was with God, not the man Jesus.
The point is that God sent his son into the world. That usually means he was the son and then was sent. That is the point I made. When I came into the world, I was not a son, but I was born from above and became an adopted son later in my life. And does being a son mean that you are a man? Are angels sons of God?
Other scripture teach us human is a human being conceived through a miracle of God, received the Spirit from God, born of a virgin, continued to live his mortality and afterwards continuously walking according to the Spirit, choosing to sacrifice himself in his mercy for those in darkness, resurrected by the power of the Spirit of holiness because he did not earn the wages of sin, ascending to heaven as a human to receive his reward from God and mediate the new covenant still as a human being.
You also need to include that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, then came in the flesh. Additionally, we know he is in the glory that he had with the Father, before the Cosmos. Is he back as an idea in God’s mind?
t8,
Philippians 2:5-7 is another passage that some have a hard time understanding. It contains a list of things Jesus always performed because the spirits of his mind were in the form of God. Because he did not see it as loot to become God’ equal he emptied himself of pride and became a servant of all and was he was always made be God in the in the likeness of humanity. The angels of God have the form of God in the same sense as do any the walk by the Spirit. In fact Paul was urging the Christians at Philippi to walk by the Spirit instead if by the flesh in Philippians 2 by using Jesus as an example.
T8,
God planned for Jesus to be the Christ before Jesus was conceived by Mary. He had the whole plan laid out before it occurred he even told us of Judas and the thirty pieces of silver before the Betrayer was conceived in his mother’s womb.
Romans 9:11-13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
The fact that God stated he hated Esau and loved Jacob before they were even born does not mean they existed before they were born. It seems John 17:5 is just another hard to understand passage of Scripture.
Hi t8,
Indeed the Word was with God and was God.
The Word, now known as Jesus Christ, existed in the form of God.
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Then the Word was made flesh- in Jesus -and dwelled among us.
Hi t8,
As jn 17 shows God sends all His sons into the world.
That does not mean they were not on earth before they were sent
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