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Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2014,23:24) Quote (jammin @ June 23 2014,09:28) t just go to your backyard and plant some potatoes. maybe in that way you will be able to help your country
Jammyi really think you would do better if you start planting potatoes,in someone else yard ,and argue with them why you plant in their yard and not yours,
Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2014,12:08) Jammin, I am aware that trinitarians will often translate and interpret the same words applied to Jesus differently than when applied to Jesus. You have to already believe Jesus is God or be gullible to accept such explanations.
You have failed to prove Jesus is all powerful.
Case in point:Quote (jammin @ June 22 2014,21:15) it does not say that in eph 3.19 boy let me post it
Ephesians 3:19
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
19 And to know the [a]love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all [c]fullness of God.
footnote
Ephesians 3:19 So that we have abundantly in us, whatsoever things are required to make us perfect with God.eph 3.19 did not say that WE WILL HAVE THE NATURE OF GOD (omnipresence,omnipotent,omniscient etc). this verse speaks about the whatsoever things are required to MAKE US PERFECT WITH GOD!
some version says
Ephesians 3:19
New Living Translation (NLT)
19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.
Had these same words been said about JESUS, and not about disciples – the Trinitarians would have been all over it as a “Jesus is God proof text”!
But since it is said about US, and not about JESUS, they seem to be able to understand that “having the fullness of God” does NOT mean that person IS God.
If the same words were said about Jesus, they would naturally change their minds, and say those words were proof that Jesus IS God. You wouldn't ever see that NLT version if the words were said about JESUS……. would you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,10:47) Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2014,12:08) Jammin, I am aware that trinitarians will often translate and interpret the same words applied to Jesus differently than when applied to Jesus. You have to already believe Jesus is God or be gullible to accept such explanations.
You have failed to prove Jesus is all powerful.
Case in point:Quote (jammin @ June 22 2014,21:15) it does not say that in eph 3.19 boy let me post it
Ephesians 3:19
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
19 And to know the [a]love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all [c]fullness of God.
footnote
Ephesians 3:19 So that we have abundantly in us, whatsoever things are required to make us perfect with God.eph 3.19 did not say that WE WILL HAVE THE NATURE OF GOD (omnipresence,omnipotent,omniscient etc). this verse speaks about the whatsoever things are required to MAKE US PERFECT WITH GOD!
some version says
Ephesians 3:19
New Living Translation (NLT)
19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.
Had these same words been said about JESUS, and not about disciples – the Trinitarians would have been all over it as a “Jesus is God proof text”!But since it is said about US, and not about JESUS, they seem to be able to understand that “having the fullness of God” does NOT mean that person IS God.
If the same words were said about Jesus, they would naturally change their minds, and say those words were proof that Jesus IS God. You wouldn't ever see that NLT version if the words were said about JESUS……. would you?
Mike and Terra.What is that first cteature's name?
wakeup.
kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote I have already quoted it to you before. Why would you believe what is written any more this time than before. Kerwin,
YOU SHOULD NOT JUST QUOTE!
BUT PRESENT SCRIPTURES, DEFINE IT WITH RESPECT TO THE GREEK/JEWISH MESSAGE AS MUCH AS YOU COULD BE AWARE OF, TO GIVE PROOF THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS THE TRUTH ACCORDINGLY,
WITH THE HOPE THAT I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THE SAME GENERAL WORK TO CONTRADICT YOU IN ORDER TO ALSO PROVE THAT I AM SAYING THE TRUTH!
IN THAT MANNER IF BOTH OF US AS TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE GENUINELY FREE FROM ANY EVIL CARNAL INFLUENCES, AND FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY SOURCE OF OUR BELIEF,THE ONLY LIFE, AND THE ONLY WAY, IN ORDER TO REACH THE ONLY GOD AND FATHER, SINCE ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM! WE DEFINITELY REACH THAT AIM!
BUT, IT SEEMS THAT YOU ARE NOT SURE OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING, SOMETHING WHICH YOU YOURSELF MADE ME TO DETERMINE SO, DUE TO THE FACT THAT, FOR A REASON THAT ONLY YOU KNOW,YOU SIMPLY WERE NOT READY TO FACE IT!
I ONLY BELIEVE WHAT IT IS CLEARLY PROVEN THAT IT IS THE TRUTH, OR AS CLOSEST TO THE TRUTH!
WHICH WILL BE POSTED AFTER THIS ONE
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Wakeup @ June 23 2014,21:23) Mike and Terra. What is that first cteature's name?
Why, Wakeup? Is it important for some reason?If so, then you tell me the name of the first being God ever created. You don't believe it was Jesus, so tell me who it was. What was his name? And why is knowing that name important to our salvation?
carmel,
Quote YOU SHOULD NOT JUST QUOTE! BUT PRESENT SCRIPTURES, DEFINE IT WITH RESPECT TO THE GREEK/JEWISH MESSAGE AS MUCH AS YOU COULD BE AWARE OF, TO GIVE PROOF THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS THE TRUTH ACCORDINGLY,
The Jews are follow strict monotheism and not trinitarianism in any of its forms. If you go by the teaching of the Jews then Jesus Christ is a human being who has been given authority over all things in heaven and on earth but is still subject to God.
There is no real evidence that the Jews of the First Century were any different in this belief than those today. When Jesus says I am going to my Father and my God it goes with the strict monotheism viewpoint as when Scripture calls believers his brothers.
I can quote the relevant passage but frankly you should know them by now.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,05:47) Quote (kerwin @ June 23 2014,12:08) Jammin, I am aware that trinitarians will often translate and interpret the same words applied to Jesus differently than when applied to Jesus. You have to already believe Jesus is God or be gullible to accept such explanations.
You have failed to prove Jesus is all powerful.
Case in point:Quote (jammin @ June 22 2014,21:15) it does not say that in eph 3.19 boy let me post it
Ephesians 3:19
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
19 And to know the [a]love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all [c]fullness of God.
footnote
Ephesians 3:19 So that we have abundantly in us, whatsoever things are required to make us perfect with God.eph 3.19 did not say that WE WILL HAVE THE NATURE OF GOD (omnipresence,omnipotent,omniscient etc). this verse speaks about the whatsoever things are required to MAKE US PERFECT WITH GOD!
some version says
Ephesians 3:19
New Living Translation (NLT)19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is too great to understand fully. Then you will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God.
Had these same words been said about JESUS, and not about disciples – the Trinitarians would have been all over it as a “Jesus is God proof text”!But since it is said about US, and not about JESUS, they seem to be able to understand that “having the fullness of God” does NOT mean that person IS God.
If the same words were said about Jesus, they would naturally change their minds, and say those words were proof that Jesus IS God. You wouldn't ever see that NLT version if the words were said about JESUS……. would you?
Mike,They do.
Colossians 1:19
New International Version (NIV)19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Colossians 1:19
New Living Translation (NLT)19 For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,Colossians 1:19
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)19 For it pleased the Father, that in him should [a]all fullness dwell.
Footnotes:Colossians 1:19 Most plentiful abundance of all things pertaining to God.
Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2014,20:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,05:47)
Had these same words been said about JESUS, and not about disciples – the Trinitarians would have been all over it as a “Jesus is God proof text”!
Mike,They do.
Kerwin,You would have made a much better point by posting the Trinitarian commentators' NOTES about that scripture.
For example, Gill says Colossians 1:19 means:
………all the perfections of God are in Christ, as eternity, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, immutability, independence, and necessary existence, and every other, or he would not be equal with God; nor could all the fulness of the Godhead be said to dwell in him………..
But about Ephesians 3:19, Gill says:
That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God;
this is to be understood, not of a full comprehension of the divine Being, nor of a communication of his divine perfections, nor of having in them the fulness of grace, which it has pleased God should dwell in Christ…………
but that fulness of good things, which they may receive from God in this life; as to be filled with a sense of the love and grace of God; with satisfying views of interest in the righteousness of Christ; with the Spirit, and the gifts and graces thereof………….
If the words are said about Christ, they mean he IS God Almighty. But if those same words are said about us, it means we are to “be filled with a sense of the love and grace OF God”.
Those Trinitarian scholars really have a sense of humor, huh?
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote If so, then you tell me the name of the first being God ever created. You don't believe it was Jesus, so tell me who it was. What was his name? And why is knowing that name important to our salvation? Mike,
LUCIFER!
AND UNLESS YOU REALIZE WHAT LUCIFER BECAME, YOU WILL NEVER DISCOVER THE TRUTH ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOU REMAIN IN LUCIFER, SATANA'S STATE REGARDING YOUR FLESH AND BLOOD BODY:
PROUD!
Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities, and by the iniquity of thy traffic: therefore
I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, (THE CENTRE OF PLANET EARTH, ALL MATTER) to devour thee, and I will make thee as ashes upon the earth ( ERUPTIONS OF VOLCANOES) in the sight of all that see thee.
DID YOU EVER SEE LAVA, THAT IS OUR SUBSTANCE
MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO YOU AND ME STILL SPIRITS, LOCKED IN THAT LAVA, MATTER CAME OUT IN ORDER TO START OUR PROCESS TO BECOME HUMANS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Kerwin,
HEREUNDER IS THE SCRIPTURE YOU POSTED
Quote John 20:17
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)17 Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'
NOW:
I am not bothered in the word ascend as such, since you are aware that it could be used figuratively as I AM SURE OF in this case!
But IT IS the preposition “to” “PROS” I AM INTERESTED IN, which determined the proper definition of the phrase!
Hereunder is the Greek text analysis
4314 [e] pros
Strong's Concordance
pros: advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place)
Original Word: πρός
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: pros
Phonetic Spelling: (pros)
Short Definition: to, towards, with
Definition: to, towards, with.HELPS Word-studies
4314 prós (a preposition) – properly, motion towards to “interface with” (literally, moving toward a goal or destination).
4314 /prós (“towards, with”) indicates “extension toward a goal, with implied interaction or reciprocity (L & N, 1, 84.18), with “presumed contact and reaction” (L & N, 1, 84.23). 4314 (prós) naturally suggests the cycle of initiation and response (L-N, 1,90.25, 90.33).
[4314 (prós) can mean “in view of,” or “in light of, but never “against,” except where the context indicates an active exchange (interface) done in opposition.
As you can read the text DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PREPOSITION “UNTO”
AND WHEN YOU READ THE GREEK TEXT ANALYSIS OF THAT PARAGRAPH ONLY PROS IS USED IN THE THREE CASES WHICH IS USED!
ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO DETERMINE WHICH IS THE PROPER VERSION IN RELATION TO WHAT I PIN POINTED OUT?
NOT YOU OPINION PLEASE SCRIPTURES
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote The Jews are follow strict monotheism and not trinitarianism in any of its forms. If you go by the teaching of the Jews then Jesus Christ is a human being who has been given authority over all things in heaven and on earth but is still subject to God. Kerwin,
RIGHT NOW JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF AS A FLESH AND SPIRIT BEING
THE WORD
THE WORD MADE FLESH
AND
THE WORD GLORIFIED AS:
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
THE FACT THAT HE IS THE SOLE RULER OF ALL GOD'S CREATION, AND POSSESSES ETERNALLY THROUGH INHERITANCE ,ALL GOD'S ATTRIBUTES!
AND GOD ALMIGHTY IS RIGHT NOW MAKING JESUS' ENEMIES HIS FOOTSTOOL!
SO HE IS NOT SUBJECT TO GOD ALMIGHTY, BUT GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF IN FULL GLORY OF BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT
GOD ALMIGHTY IS STILL SPIRIT AS HE ALWAYS WAS, AND REMAIN SO!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Charles,
Quote I am not bothered in the word ascend as such, since you are aware that it could be used figuratively as I AM SURE OF in this case! I can see it used figuratively but do not see it used figuratively in the spiritual sense as Jesus was already in heaven with his God and our God figuratively.
I can see it used literally and see no reason to use it otherwise as Jesus would ascend in 40 days.
God did not sacrificed Himself.
He gave his Son to the world;not Himself.Jesus is not God:but the Word of God;and he was made flesh. Our God was never killed by jews.
He holds the universe together in harmony.
There would be chaos if he died for three days.If not; then He did not truly die.
It would be a fake death.Jesus was the Word of God made flesh.
He is not flesh anymore;and is in heaven,
next to His God,and Father.wakeup.
Charles,
Quote As you can read the text DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PREPOSITION “UNTO” Unto is fairly useless word that replace to in all but the case when to is an accompaniment of the infinitive or as a placement of until.
The lexicon one of its synonyms which is to.
Charles,
Quote RIGHT NOW JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF AS A FLESH AND SPIRIT BEING I have no idea what you personal teaching of the trinity is but I do not Jesus was tempted even as we are and God cannot be tempted by sin. So if you believe Jesus was God during his mortal life then you do not believe he was tempted by evil as we are. That opposes what is written. If you do not then what do you believe and what passages do you use to support your belief?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 25 2014,08:53) Quote (kerwin @ June 24 2014,20:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,05:47)
Had these same words been said about JESUS, and not about disciples – the Trinitarians would have been all over it as a “Jesus is God proof text”!
Mike,They do.
Kerwin,You would have made a much better point by posting the Trinitarian commentators' NOTES about that scripture.
For example, Gill says Colossians 1:19 means:
………all the perfections of God are in Christ, as eternity, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, immutability, independence, and necessary existence, and every other, or he would not be equal with God; nor could all the fulness of the Godhead be said to dwell in him………..
But about Ephesians 3:19, Gill says:
That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God;
this is to be understood, not of a full comprehension of the divine Being, nor of a communication of his divine perfections, nor of having in them the fulness of grace, which it has pleased God should dwell in Christ…………
but that fulness of good things, which they may receive from God in this life; as to be filled with a sense of the love and grace of God; with satisfying views of interest in the righteousness of Christ; with the Spirit, and the gifts and graces thereof………….
If the words are said about Christ, they mean he IS God Almighty. But if those same words are said about us, it means we are to “be filled with a sense of the love and grace OF God”.
Those Trinitarian scholars really have a sense of humor, huh?
Mike,I was avoiding the research though I was sure that was the case. They do seem to have a straight man sense of humor. The also do the same with homage.
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote In cases like that, we must decide if it should be translated as, was existing in the form of God”, or, “was existing in the form of a god”. Now that I've just noticed this, I'm leaning towards “a god”, since it make a better contrast to “form of a servant”.
Mike,
I APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST REGARDING THIS MATTER, AND I WONDERED WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ACTED AS SUCH!
IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT YOU ARE CAUGHT ON THE WRONG FOOT!
SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD,
NOT THE SON OF A GOD!
NO MIKE KEEP YOUR TWISTED ARGUMENTS AND YOUR MISGUIDING DEFINITION FOR YOURSELF!
I AM CONVINCED THAT JESUS WAS ALWAYS A DIVINE BEING, EVEN IN HIS TOMB!
Hebrews 1:But to the Son:YOUR THRONE O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity:THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10And: YOU IN THE BEGINNING, O LORD DID FOUND THE EARTH: AND THE WORKS OF YOU HANDS ARE THE HEAVENS
11They shall perish, BUT YOU SHALL CONTINUE:EVEN IN THE TOMB!
and they shall all grow old as a garment.
12And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:BUT YOU ARE THE SELFSAME,AND YOUR YEARS SHALL NOT FAIL
DIVINE!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote If the words are said about Christ, they mean he IS God Almighty. But if those same words are said about us, it means we are to “be filled with a sense of the love and grace OF God”. Mike,
READ THIS:
THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD!
THE HEAD OF MEN IS CHRIST!
CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote I can see it used figuratively but do not see it used figuratively in the spiritual sense as Jesus was already in heaven with his God and our God figuratively. Kerwin,
PLEASE CAN YOU PRODUCE SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT WHAT YOU CAN SEE ?
OTHERWISE HOW CAN I SEE WHAT YOU CAN SEE?
FOR INSTANCE:
REGARDING THAT PARTICULAR RESURRECTION SCRIPTURE THERE ARE ALSO, MATTHEW'S IN PARTICULAR WHICH GAVE US MORE UNDERSTANDING RELATED TO THE SPIRITUAL SENSE, SOMETHING WHICH YOU CANNOT SEE
Quote as Jesus was already in heaven with his God and our God figuratively. NO KERWIN JESUS IN THAT PARTICULAR STATE WAS NOT YET IN HEAVEN AND NEVER WAS BEFORE!
JESUS DURING THOSE FORTY DAYS WAS IN A UNIQUE STATE THAT NEVER HAD BEEN BEFORE!
THE FACT THAT BOTH GOD AND JESUS WERE GLORIFIED IN THE SAME ONE GLORY!
GOD ALMIGHTY ENRICHED HIMSELF THROUGH JESUS' PROCESS, THEREFORE GOD ALMIGHTY WAS NEVER IN THAT STATE AND HE WOULD BE IN THAT STATE ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD WHEN HE WOULD BE ALL IN ALL !
ALL SPIRITUAL CREATURES UNITED IN ALL CARNAL CREATURES
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 24 2014,10:30) Quote (jammin @ June 22 2014,21:26) BIBLE VERSIONS AND COMMENTARIES AGREE TO ME.
Of course they agree with you……. since those commentaries were written by Trinitarians!But consider:
Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.In the above verse, is Jesus “the Lamb”? Or is he “the Lord God Almighty”?
So it doesn't matter that a Trinitarian commentator WANTS Jesus to be “the Lord God Almighty” in 1:8 – because other scriptures make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus is NOT “Almighty”.
Hebrews 10
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.First of all, “God” is the one Jesus sits at the right hand OF, jammin. And it is not “God” who sits at the right hand of “God”………… unless you believe there are TWO Gods.
Secondly, nobody who is “Almighty” sits and waits for SOMEONE ELSE to place his enemies at his feet, so he can then destroy those enemies.
So once again, it doesn't matter one little bit how many Trinitarians want to take verses in the Bible that are about Jehovah, and apply those verses to Jesus……. because there are enough ABUNDANTLY CLEAR scriptures in the Bible to let even a 3 year old kid know that Jesus is NOT the God he is the Son, Servant, Lamb, Prophet, Priest, and Messiah OF.
The very thought that there are “so-called intelligent” people out there who believe that the Son, Servant, Lamb, Prophet, Priest, and Messiah OF God could actually BE the God he is all those things OF – really baffles me.
But these people do exist, nonetheless. The question is: Why would anyone in their right mind believe the nonsensical things these confused people have to say?
i do not believe there are two Gods. i believe there are three persons but one in nature, God.you and your father are two persons but ONE NATURE, HUMAN.
that is the basic explanation for your question and do not make things complicated.
also, are we talking about the rev 21.22,heb 10.12 or rev 1.8?
rev 1.8 talks about christ and if you see the verse 7, Christ is the one who is coming and not the father. read the context and do not just make fantasies hahaha
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