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Quote (jammin @ June 17 2014,21:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2014,11:12) Quote (jammin @ June 16 2014,06:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 13 2014,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2014,09:15) Quote (jammin @ June 08 2014,19:16)
ERVheb 1.2
He made the whole world through his Son.
Who is the “HE” in that context, jammin?
Who is the “HE”, jammin? WHO made the whole world through His Son?
the HE is the father but did you see the word “through”??
Of course I saw the word “through”.
Remember what your father Tertullian taught you: He who creates is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is ANOTHER.
So in the scripture YOU quoted, the “HE” is the Father, right? Then THAT is the one who “made the world”, right?
The fact that the Father made the world THROUGH His firstborn Son Jesus doesn't change the fact that it was indeed THE FATHER who made the world.
Just like the fact the Father made Eve THROUGH Adam doesn't change the fact that it was indeed THE FATHER who made Eve.
Oh, and the fact that the Father made Eve THROUGH Adam doesn't make Adam Eve's “creator”, or even “co-creator”.
Likewise, the fact that the Father made the world THROUGH Jesus doesn't make Jesus the world's “creator” or even “co-creator”.
Are you finally ready to fess up to Acts 4 yet? Because since YOUR OWN scriptures are proving MY point, things are only going to get worse for you from here on out.
the importance of the word “through” is, without him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:3
New International Version (NIV)3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
it is true that God created all things BUT through HIS SON and without him nothing was made that has been made.
do you understand that? it is not the same as your example that God created me through my parents. that is not in the bible hahahaha. where did you get that? hahahah
your father satan teaches you a lot of fantasies hahahaha.
by the way, you still have 999899 yrs to find a version that says that the LORD in heb 1.10 is the father and not the SON who created the heavens and the earth
Jammin,You do realize that despite all the words you wrote you did not say anything relevant to the argument Mike made. I disagree with his doctrine but I do believe God made the world through his own word.
You have a case with that verse that I heave heard you make before but not that the one who made all things and the one who they were made through are the same person.
Quote (jammin @ June 17 2014,21:58) Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,06:26) Quote (jammin @ June 16 2014,17:42) Quote (kerwin @ June 15 2014,05:35) Quote (jammin @ June 12 2014,07:37) it is not irrelevant. i am talking about the human nature here and being not all powerful is part of HUMAN's nature.
the truth is you cant answer my question that is why.Jesus is equal with God in essence according to paul and all powerful is part of God's nature.
so it is easy to explain this IF YOU WILL answer my question. is the president all powerful? yes or no?are you all powerful? yes or no?
if both answers are NO, then you are equal in essence. believe it or not
Jammin,When you set “all powerful” up as a characteristic to mark one essential nature different than another then any difference in power becomes a characteristic to mark one essential nature from another. Since the president has more power than I do that follows his essential nature is different than mine.
If you are attempting to male the cause of unlimited power verses limed power then even angels that are vastly more powerful than me have the same essential nature as I do.
So you are saying that Jesus because he was all powerful emptied himself of all that power and obtained limited power. So according to that foolishness God took on limited power and so no longer had the essential nature of God.
You are attempting to use reason to explain a doctrine that is illogical and you will fall flat when you attempt to do that. In order for someone to accept your “reasoning” they have to deny true reason.
Instead you need to believe Jesus existed in the nature of God in that he wall like God in true holiness and righteousness and that led him not seek to loot God's power but instead to humble himself and become God's servant. That is the mind that Jesus continually had in him and the mind we believers are to seek to have in us.
It is a simple instruction that can be hard to do. Do not make it hard to understand.
no. why? because the president is STILL NOT ALL POWERFUL unless he is God by nature. a human nature is not ALL POWERFUL. you cant say ALL POWERFUL if you have limitations and that is human nature.the bible tells us that jesus took the HUMAN form. it is clear that before he took the human nature, he was in the form of God and was EQUAL with God . i am not saying this just because i want to but because this is the doctrine of the bible. paul said Christ is God just like his father. phil 2.6
thomas said Jesus is HIS LORD AND GOD john 20.28
the jews understood that Christ claimed to be God and equal with God and that is the reason why they want to kill him!
john 5.18
New International Version
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
but said also that God was his Father; his own Father, his proper Father, his Father by nature, and that he was his own Son by nature; and this they gathered from his calling him “my Father”, and assuming a co-operation with him in his divine works:
making himself to be equal with God; to be of the same nature, and have the same perfections, and do the same works; for by saying that God was his Father, and so that he was the Son of God, a phrase, which, with them, signified a divine person, as they might learn from Psalm 2:7, and by ascribing the same operations to himself, as to his Father, they rightly understood him, that he asserted his equality with him; for had he intended no more, and had they imagined that he intended no more by calling God his Father, than that he was so by creation, as he is to all men, or by adoption, as he was to the Jews, they would not have been so angry with him; for the phrase, in this sense, they used themselves: but they understood him otherwise, as asserting his proper deity, and perfect equality with the Father; and therefore to the charge of sabbath breaking, add that of blasphemy, and on account of both, sought to put him to death; for according to their canons, both the sabbath breaker, and the blasphemer, were to be stoned (d).
Jammin,Gill is using nature to define nature which makes me thing he does not know what it means. He is giving commentary to make his point of view more clear and that does not make it more clear. Let is stick to your point of view as I already know Gill is by point of view a trinitarian.
You are clearly having trouble communicating your idea but it seems to me that you are trying to make the point that “power” is not the essential nature you are speaking of but unlimited power vs limited power is a characteristic of the essence you are talking about. So you claim Jesus was all powerful on earth even though he himself said after his resurrection and before his ascension that he was appointed by God as Lord of all things in heaven and on earth. In that statement he was clearly not the one that had the power to appoint him to that position nor is their any evidence he was given that power to appoint another to that position. Since he did not have that power and God did that means his power is limited and God's is not.
You will not find a flaw in my claim that a characteristic of the nature of God Jesus existed in what to be righteous as Yahweh is as Jesus has never sinned even as Jehovah has never sinned.
let us make this simple. i do not want things to be complicated.is all powerful part of God's essence/nature?
yes or no?
is MAN all pwoerful by nature/essence? yes or no?
is the president all powerful by nature/ essence? yes or no?
are you all powerful by nature/ essence? yes or no?
i will give you 1m yrs to answer my questions
Jaminnthose are the most stupid questions I ever seen ,
the only reason you quote these is because you cannot answer Kerwin and Mike questions from scriptures so you have to use some clever wording what is so irrelevant to the scriptures that their is no support for them ,
your attitude is the one that really hurt you ,you do not believe scriptures but only your religion ,
Jammin
Quote I disagree with scriptures ,but you believe what you want to believe ;and that is the reason why you do not show scriptures but make declarations that are not in the scriptures
Quote (jammin @ June 17 2014,09:53) your father satan teaches you a lot of fantasies hahahaha.
Really? Because all I did was use the ERV scripture that YOU posted to prove to you that THE FATHER made the world.Quote (jammin @ June 17 2014,09:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2014,11:06) Quote (jammin @ June 16 2014,05:55) is God NOT ALL POWERFUL by nature/essence?
Yes jammin,GOD is indeed all powerful.
Unfortunately for your silly little doctrine, JESUS is clearly NOT all powerful – and therefore NOT “God”.
and you told me that jesus is equal with God in essence. hahahah.
therefore, if God is the father is all powerful by essence, the son is also all powerful.
So then the question becomes……….. IS the Son all-powerful?The scriptures say NO.
End of discussion, right?
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,10:54) Since Jesus is not all powerful then it is clear that is not the essence of God or part of the essence he exists in.
Seems simple enough.Everything hinges on the scriptural fact that Jesus is NOT “all powerful”.
So, if “all powerful” is God's essence, then Jesus doesn't have God's essence.
If “all powerful” is NOT a part of anyone's “essence” (which it clearly isn't), then Jesus can still share in God's spirit essence without being “all powerful”, and therefore without being “God”.
It doesn't matter how jammin spins it, because the bottom line is that Jesus wasn't all powerful on earth, and he still isn't all powerful in heaven – even after being exalted to the highest position, and given the name above all names.
So if being “God” means being “all powerful”, then according to scripture, Jesus ISN'T “God”.
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,11:01) Jammin, If you are correct then clearly he must not be including all powerful in the essence of God he sees Jesus as being equal to God in.
I told jammin Jesus and God were equal in essence if, by essence, he meant “spirit entity”.They both have a “spirit” essence, just like Michael, Gabriel, Satan, and all of God's other spirit sons.
jammin knows this, because I've reminded him of it a couple of times already. But he still thinks he's proving something by posting only a part of the statement I made.
Eventually, he'll realize he's only fooling himself.
(See jammin, Kerwin wasn't fooled by you only posting part of the statement I made………. was he?)
Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,11:08) Jammin, You do realize that despite all the words you wrote you did not say anything relevant to the argument Mike made.
What's new?Besides, jammin is the one who posted the ERV scripture that says the Father made the world. Now he wants to argue against the translation HE posted.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2014,07:39) Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,11:01) Jammin, If you are correct then clearly he must not be including all powerful in the essence of God he sees Jesus as being equal to God in.
I told jammin Jesus and God were equal in essence if, by essence, he meant “spirit entity”.They both have a “spirit” essence, just like Michael, Gabriel, Satan, and all of God's other spirit sons.
jammin knows this, because I've reminded him of it a couple of times already. But he still thinks he's proving something by posting only a part of the statement I made.
Eventually, he'll realize he's only fooling himself.
(See jammin, Kerwin wasn't fooled by you only posting part of the statement I made………. was he?)
Mike,I disagree with you but I acknowledge the word essence, form, or nature are vague enough in meaning to cover your teaching about what they mean. The word covers Jammin's meaning as well but as you have said other passages say Jesus is not all powerful.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2014,07:41) Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2014,11:08) Jammin, You do realize that despite all the words you wrote you did not say anything relevant to the argument Mike made.
What's new?Besides, jammin is the one who posted the ERV scripture that says the Father made the world. Now he wants to argue against the translation HE posted.
Mike,I am afraid I know more about trinitarian teachings that jammin does. I do not think he tests his chosen doctrines to a very great degree.
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote So Jesus sits at the right hand of God to prove that Jesus IS God? Mike,
READ IT AGAIN NOW:
So Jesus sits at the right hand of God ONLY VISIBLE TO JESUS
to prove that Jesus OFFICIALLY, PROVEN, ON EARTH THROUGH HIS OWN BLOOD,ON THE CROSS, AND IS HIMSELF THE ONLY VISIBLE ESTABLISHED OWN PERSONAL GOD ALMIGHTY, IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BODY THEREFORE FATHER OF BOTH SONS AND DAUGHTERS RESPECTIVELY
FOR THE GLORY OF THE MYSTERIOUS, HIDDEN, UNKNOWN SPIRIT ALMIGHTY GOD UNOFFICIALLY THE FATHER OF SONS ONLY
CHEW MIKE THE PURE TRUTH!
MORE TO COME SO YOU WILL NEVER HUNGER FOR TRUTH!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ June 18 2014,13:06) mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote So Jesus sits at the right hand of God to prove that Jesus IS God? Mike,
READ IT AGAIN NOW:
So Jesus sits at the right hand of God ONLY VISIBLE TO JESUS
to prove that Jesus OFFICIALLY, PROVEN, ON EARTH THROUGH HIS OWN BLOOD,ON THE CROSS, AND IS HIMSELF THE ONLY VISIBLE ESTABLISHED OWN PERSONAL GOD ALMIGHTY, IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BODY THEREFORE FATHER OF BOTH SONS AND DAUGHTERS RESPECTIVELY
FOR THE GLORY OF THE MYSTERIOUS, HIDDEN, UNKNOWN SPIRIT ALMIGHTY GOD UNOFFICIALLY THE FATHER OF SONS ONLY
CHEW MIKE THE PURE TRUTH!
MORE TO COME SO YOU WILL NEVER HUNGER FOR TRUTH!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
CharlesQuote So Jesus sits at the right hand of God ONLY VISIBLE TO JESUS it does not matter what and were Christ the son of God sits he be always only the son of his God and father ,
as per scriptures ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.now i have a question for you ;was the son an IMAGE OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH OR BOTH
MAKE SURE YOUR ANSWER INCLUDES THE WHY??? AND SCRIPTURES
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote HE ESTABLISHED HIS OWN KIND OF GOD OF BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT THROUGH HIS DEATH[/b]
Once again, that is pure, unscriptural nonsense, Charles.Mike,
FROM YOUR SIDE POINT OF VIEW YES SINCE YOU RELY ONLY ON WORLDLY WISDOM.
THE LITERAL VERSION OF THE BIBLE!
BUT READ THIS NOW
AND SEE IF YOU COULD DISCERN WHAT OTHERS COULD, THROUGH GOD'S WISDOM
AND ONLY TO THE LITTLE ONES WOULD THE FATHER HAVE THE PLEASURE TO REVEAL WHAT IS HIDDEN IN THEM!
John 10:18 No man taketh it away from me:
but I lay it down of myself,
and I have POWER to lay it down:
and I have POWER to take it up again.
This commandment have I received of my Father.
The above verses are enough in order to discern in the truth what Jesus meant!
Would you like to have a go and express your understanding THROUGH WORLDLY WISDOM?
OR DO YOU RATHER THAT
I WOULD WITH PLEASURE EXPRESS MINE, THROUGH GODLY WISDOM?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
terraricca,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus sits at the right hand of God ONLY VISIBLE TO JESUS Terraricca,
HEREUNDER YOU HAVE ALL YOUR ANSWER, BUT WORLDLY WISDOM WON'T LET YOU SEE THE TRUTH, SINCE THE WORLD IS SATANIC!
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man
WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
ENJOY:
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote John 20:17
Jesus said, “Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”Will you now tell me that Jesus was calling HIMSELF “my God” in that verse as well?
Mike,
BY ALL MEANS!
YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT JESUS WAS REFERRING TO :
GOD ALMIGHTY MORE THAN TO HIMSELF
FROM THE OTHER HAND I CAN PROVE THAT JESUS WAS REFERRING ONLY TO HIMSELF!
AS HE WAS ABOUT TO BECOME EQUALLY BOTH GOD, AND FATHER TO HIMSELF AS MAN, SYMBOLICALLY SPIRIT
AND BOTH GOD AND FATHER TO MAGDALENE AS WOMAN, SYMBOLICALLY FLESH!
SINCE OFFICIALLY GOD ALMIGHTY IS NOT A GOD AND FATHER TO WOMEN UP TO THIS VERY DAY EXCEPT THROUGH
,THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST
Quote “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? THE ABOVE MR. MIKE, IT'S OVER AND DONE WITH AND IT IS AN OLD STORY, AND SINCE THEN JESUS CHRIST MANIFESTED HIMSELF IN HIS OWN GENUINE WORK ON EARTH AND THAT HE IS
THE ALMIGHTY GOD IN THE TRUTH, WALKED ON EARTH FOR FORTY DAYS, AND DECLARED THAT HE IS THE OVERALL RULER, AND THE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT FOR THE PLEASURE AND GLORY OF THE FATHER
NO ONE IS HIGHER THAN JESUS IS IN HEAVEN!
MIKE YOU STILL HAVE TO ANSWER:
DID GOD ALMIGHTY ENRICH HIMSELF THROUGH JESUS' PROCESS ?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote =terraricca,June 19 2014,03:06] Quote t does not matter what and were Christ the son of God sits he be always only the son of his God and father , Terraricca,
THE ABOVE IS IRRELEVANT RELATED TO GOD!
ANSWER:
DID GOD ALMIGHTY ENRICH HIMSELF THROUGH THE PROCESS OF HIS SON?
CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT:
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and
TO WHOM THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM. ETERNALLY THROUGH HIMSELF!
ALSO:
THE HEAD OF CHRIST'S BODY IS GOD!
SO THE HEAD NEEDS THE BODY AS MUCH AS THE BODY NEEDS THE HEAD,
SO:
ALL WHAT THE FATHER HAS ARE JESUS' AND ALL WHAT JESUS HAS, ARE THE FATHER'S
SO THE SON IS A FATHER AS MUCH AS THE FATHER IS A FATHER!
SO THE SON IS GOD AS MUCH AS THE FATHER IS GOD!
THE SON IS A CREATOR AS MUCH AS THE FATHER IS A CREATOR!
THE SON HAS NO BEGINNING AS MUCH AS THE FATHER HAS NO BEGINNING!
THE SON WAS AND IS IN THE FATHER AS MUCH AS THE FATHER WAS AND IS IN HIS SON!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ June 18 2014,22:46) terraricca,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus sits at the right hand of God ONLY VISIBLE TO JESUS Terraricca,
HEREUNDER YOU HAVE ALL YOUR ANSWER, BUT WORLDLY WISDOM WON'T LET YOU SEE THE TRUTH, SINCE THE WORLD IS SATANIC!
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man
WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
ENJOY:
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
CHARLESthe son of God and the son of man HIS JESUS CHRIST
THE IMAGE ;
BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS IS IT
YOU ARE BETTER AT INVENTING THINGS THAN SHOW TRUTH ,
NOW ANSWER THE QUESTIONS OR IT WILL BE SEEN AS “YOU DO NOT KNOW “
terraricca,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote BUT YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS IS IT Terraricca,
I TOLD YOU WORLDLY WISDOM NEVER LET YOU SEE THE TRUTH
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ June 18 2014,11:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2014,11:20)
John 20:17
Jesus said, “Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”Will you now tell me that Jesus was calling HIMSELF “my God” in that verse as well?
Mike,
BY ALL MEANS!
YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT JESUS WAS REFERRING TO :
GOD ALMIGHTY MORE THAN TO HIMSELF
FROM THE OTHER HAND I CAN PROVE THAT JESUS WAS REFERRING ONLY TO HIMSELF!
Oh brother!Charles, save your breath. Jesus and I both have the same one Almighty God. I learned this from Jesus himself in the scripture posted above.
So unless JESUS is the God of Jesus, then JESUS isn't the God of Mike.
Whoever Jesus' God is – that is also our God…….. whether or not you care to acknowledge this scriptural fact.
Jesus is the Son, Servant, Messiah, Priest, and Prophet of God Almighty, Charles. He is not the God that he is all these things OF.
The sooner you accept this scriptural fact, the better off you'll be.
In the mean time, I have no interest in entertaining your bizarre interpretations of the scriptures. You are out there in la-la land, and very rarely does anything you post even have a HINT of scriptural truth to it.
Quote (carmel @ June 18 2014,22:36) mikeboll64,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote HE ESTABLISHED HIS OWN KIND OF GOD OF BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT THROUGH HIS DEATH[/b]
Once again, that is pure, unscriptural nonsense, Charles.Mike,
FROM YOUR SIDE POINT OF VIEW YES SINCE YOU RELY ONLY ON WORLDLY WISDOM.
THE LITERAL VERSION OF THE BIBLE!
BUT READ THIS NOW
AND SEE IF YOU COULD DISCERN WHAT OTHERS COULD, THROUGH GOD'S WISDOM
AND ONLY TO THE LITTLE ONES WOULD THE FATHER HAVE THE PLEASURE TO REVEAL WHAT IS HIDDEN IN THEM!
John 10:18 No man taketh it away from me:
but I lay it down of myself,
and I have POWER to lay it down:
and I have POWER to take it up again.
This commandment have I received of my Father.
The above verses are enough in order to discern in the truth what Jesus meant!
Would you like to have a go and express your understanding THROUGH WORLDLY WISDOM?
OR DO YOU RATHER THAT
I WOULD WITH PLEASURE EXPRESS MINE, THROUGH GODLY WISDOM?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
charlesWORLDLY WISDOM NEVER LET YOU SEE THE TRUTH
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