JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ June 05 2014,21:05)

sorry mike but you are wrong again!

jammin,

I will wait until you actually post an intelligent reply that refutes the things I said. Then I will answer.

June 8, 2014 at 5:07 pm#387818

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ June 05 2014,21:09)

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

10 God also said,

“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.

While I am happy that there are Bibles like the “Easy-To-Read Version” for people like you, the words “God also said” are not actually in Hebrews 1:10.

jammin, what does it tell you when Trinitarian translators must ADD or TWIST the words of the scriptures to make them come out the way they want them to?

Professor Jason BeDuhn put it quite nicely:

“To me, it expresses a lack of courage, a fear that the Bible does not back up their ‘truth’ enough.

To let the Bible have its say, regardless of how well or poorly that say conforms to expectations of accepted forms of modern Christianity is an exercise in courage or, to use another word for it, faith.”

The ERV knows that Hebrews 1:10 doesn't back up their “truth” enough, and so they must ALTER the scriptural words.

Now, back to Acts 4. It is clear that the disciples prayed TO the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them.

It is equally clear that they did NOT pray TO “Jesus”.

What does that tell you?

June 8, 2014 at 5:11 pm#387819

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,05:37)

Mike,

So he is still the light but not the light of the world because he is no longer in the world to be that light.

He is still the light of the world – just like he was before he came in the flesh.

For a short time, the light of the world was actually IN the world. It was a wonderful time for the people who lived back then.

June 8, 2014 at 5:15 pm#387821

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,09:54)

Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2014,20:14)

Quote

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

John the Baptist said he himself was not the light.

I corrected your comment ;add “HIMSELF “

I am not sure what you are getting at as to me what I said and what you said seem to mean that John did not let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

Kerwin,

Your words could mean that John the Baptist said JESUS was not the light.

Pierre added the word “himself” to make it clear that John the Baptist said HE HIMSELF (not “Jesus”) was not the light.

He was clarifying your statement so there could be no misunderstanding.

June 8, 2014 at 5:17 pm#387823

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ June 06 2014,13:36)

Mike,

ARE YOU CONSIDERING GOD ALMIGHTY A SPIRIT BEING IN THE SAME TERM AS HIS CREATURES?

IF NOT, HOW WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH THE SPIRIT OF GOD FROM THE SPIRIT OF HIS CREATURES, IF IT IS THE SAME ESSENCE!

Charles,

It is not the fact that God is spirit that distinguishes Him from His creations.

That would be like saying God can't have a soul, because His creations have a soul.

Or that God can't have love, because His creations have love.

God created beings that are, in many ways, like Himself.

June 8, 2014 at 8:52 pm#387858

carmel

Participant

Quote

It is not the fact that God is spirit that distinguishes Him from His creations.

Mike,

THAT I'M AFRAID IS YOUR OPINION!

THERE ARE MANY KINDS OF FLESH!

BUT ALL HAVE THEIR CHARACTERISTICS!

SO ALSO THERE ARE MANY KINDS OF SPIRITS!

BUT GOD'S IS UNIQUE AND HAVE ALSO A UNIQUE TERM TO DISTINGUISH HIM FROM HIS CREATURES!

NOT ONLY TO HIS SPIRIT, BUT ALSO TO ALL HIS GENERAL ATTRIBUTES, SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT GOD IS!

DO YOU KNOW WHAT TERM WE ONLY USE IN ORDER TO REFER TO GOD'S SPIRIT AND ALSO TO ALL WHAT IS RELATED TO HIM?

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

June 8, 2014 at 11:52 pm#387922

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,21:54)

Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2014,20:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,18:02)

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2014,23:09)

Quote (kerwin @ June 05 2014,23:03)

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2014,10:23)

Mike,

Quote

He is literally the lamp that God sent into the world to shine some spiritual light on us.

John 9:5 states he was the light of the world only as long as he was in the world.

I can see where he is figuratively the lamp that shines the light of the world but I have always thought he was still the lamp of the world.

Mike,

I would like to hear your thoughts on this one.

BEING THE LIGHT MEANS THE ONE THAT AS UNDERSTANDING ,TRUE KNOWLEDGE , AND TRUE BEHAVIOR IN GOD'WAY

THIS IS WHAT CHRIST TOLD HIS DISCIPLES ;

MT 5:16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

T, Mike,

So, while Jesus was in the world he let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

Quote

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

John the Baptist said he himself was not the light.

I corrected your comment ;add “HIMSELF “

I am not sure what you are getting at as to me what I said and what you said seem to mean that John did not let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

THE FACT IS THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW THAT HE CAME TO PREPARE THE WAY OF THE ONE THAT IS GREATER THAN HE IS ,AND THAT THE MESSIAH WAS THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD ,

SO JOHN DID NOT WANT TO CONFUSE THE PEOPLE BY MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT HE WAS, HE THAT AS TO COME AND BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ;

June 9, 2014 at 12:42 am#387943

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,22:57)

Quote (jammin @ June 06 2014,09:19)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,03:55)

Jammin.

Quote

do you understand the meaning of essence/nature?

You don not seem to understand the meaning of essence/nature.

I have the essence of the president does not mean I am as powerful as the president.

With no context the statement is vague.

essence or nature means

1.the basic or inherent features of something, especially when
seen as characteristic of it.

2.the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character

the president is just like you. you are both HUMAN. he is not immortal and all powerful. you do have LIMITATIONS.
do you understand? you are not God

Jammin,

So according to you the essential nature of the president is that he is a human being. That is not even a requirement in many cases though it is assumed that the president will be a human being. If an angel wanted to be president he could.

The bottom line is the whether human or angel the essential nature of the president is more powerful than my essential nature.

You have already got what you have been convinced essential nature is speaking of in your head before you even read Philippians 2.

Those with the essential nature of sheep and those with the essential nature of goats will stand before God on judgement day. If you fail to comprehend what that means see the parable of the sheep and the goats.

the dictionary said
the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character

now my question is, is the president ALL POWERFUL?yes or no?
are YOU ALL POWERFUL? yes or no?

is the president immortaL?ARE YOU IMMORTAL?

June 9, 2014 at 1:16 am#387946

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2014,04:07)

Quote (jammin @ June 05 2014,21:09)

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

10 God also said,

“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.

While I am happy that there are Bibles like the “Easy-To-Read Version” for people like you, the words “God also said” are not actually in Hebrews 1:10.

jammin, what does it tell you when Trinitarian translators must ADD or TWIST the words of the scriptures to make them come out the way they want them to?

Professor Jason BeDuhn put it quite nicely:

“To me, it expresses a lack of courage, a fear that the Bible does not back up their ‘truth’ enough.

The ERV knows that Hebrews 1:10 doesn't back up their “truth” enough, and so they must ALTER the scriptural words.

Now, back to Acts 4. It is clear that the disciples prayed TO the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them.

It is equally clear that they did NOT pray TO “Jesus”.

What does that tell you?

i do not post explanation with no sense.i back up it with versions and commentaries.
in heb 1.10, it is addressed to the son. why? because you can read in verse 2 that God created all things BY HIS SON.

ERVheb 1.2
He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.

Geneva Study Bible
{9} And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast {u} laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

(9) He proves and confirms the dignity of Christ revealed in the flesh, by these six evident testimonies by which it appears that he far surpasses all angels, so much so that he is called both Son, and God in Heb 1:5,6,7,8,10,13.

(u) Made the earth firm and sure.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

(4) Paul applies this language to the Messiah in accordance with the doctrine which he had stated Hebrews 1:2, that it was by him that God “made the worlds.”

therefore, it is not wrong to conclude that the heb 1.10 talks about the SON as the creator!bible versions agree to me as well.

ERV
10 God also said,

“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.

Hebrews 1:10

Expanded Bible (EXB)

10 God also says,

“Lord, in the beginning you ·made [L laid the foundations of] the earth,
and your hands made the ·skies [heavens].

Hebrews 1:10

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

10 God also said,

“Lord, in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth.
With your own hands you made the heavens.

sorry boy. hahahah

you still have 999,995 days to go to find a version that says that THE LORD IN HEB 1.10 is the father

June 9, 2014 at 1:23 am#387947

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2014,05:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,21:54)

Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2014,20:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,18:02)

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2014,23:09)

Quote (kerwin @ June 05 2014,23:03)

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2014,10:23)

Mike,

Quote

He is literally the lamp that God sent into the world to shine some spiritual light on us.

John 9:5 states he was the light of the world only as long as he was in the world.

I can see where he is figuratively the lamp that shines the light of the world but I have always thought he was still the lamp of the world.

Mike,

I would like to hear your thoughts on this one.

BEING THE LIGHT MEANS THE ONE THAT AS UNDERSTANDING ,TRUE KNOWLEDGE , AND TRUE BEHAVIOR IN GOD'WAY

THIS IS WHAT CHRIST TOLD HIS DISCIPLES ;

MT 5:16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

T, Mike,

So, while Jesus was in the world he let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

Quote

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

John the Baptist said he himself was not the light.

I corrected your comment ;add “HIMSELF “

I am not sure what you are getting at as to me what I said and what you said seem to mean that John did not let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

THE FACT IS THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW THAT HE CAME TO PREPARE THE WAY OF THE ONE THAT IS GREATER THAN HE IS ,AND THAT THE MESSIAH WAS THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD ,

SO JOHN DID NOT WANT TO CONFUSE THE PEOPLE BY MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT HE WAS, HE THAT AS TO COME AND BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ;

I am looking for one of two verses in your answer but I do not see either of them. I believe either of them insight into the matter, especially since you pointed out Jesus told his students they were light of the world. One place he tells them that is Matthew 5:14

Matthew 11:11
New English Translation (NET)

11 “I tell you the truth, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.

There is also one place Jesus call John the Baptist a lamp, John 5:35.

I believe if you consider these things you might be able to refine your answer.

June 9, 2014 at 4:44 am#387971

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 09 2014,07:23)

Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2014,05:52)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,21:54)

Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2014,20:14)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,18:02)

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2014,23:09)

Quote (kerwin @ June 05 2014,23:03)

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2014,10:23)

Mike,

Quote

He is literally the lamp that God sent into the world to shine some spiritual light on us.

John 9:5 states he was the light of the world only as long as he was in the world.

I can see where he is figuratively the lamp that shines the light of the world but I have always thought he was still the lamp of the world.

Mike,

I would like to hear your thoughts on this one.

BEING THE LIGHT MEANS THE ONE THAT AS UNDERSTANDING ,TRUE KNOWLEDGE , AND TRUE BEHAVIOR IN GOD'WAY

THIS IS WHAT CHRIST TOLD HIS DISCIPLES ;

MT 5:16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

T, Mike,

So, while Jesus was in the world he let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

Quote

John the Baptist said he was not the light.

John the Baptist said he himself was not the light.

I corrected your comment ;add “HIMSELF “

I am not sure what you are getting at as to me what I said and what you said seem to mean that John did not let his light shine in such a way that the world saw his good works and glorified Jehovah.

THE FACT IS THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW THAT HE CAME TO PREPARE THE WAY OF THE ONE THAT IS GREATER THAN HE IS ,AND THAT THE MESSIAH WAS THE TRUE LIGHT OF THE WORLD ,

SO JOHN DID NOT WANT TO CONFUSE THE PEOPLE BY MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT HE WAS, HE THAT AS TO COME AND BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT ;

Matthew 11:11
New English Translation (NET)

11 “I tell you the truth, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.

There is also one place Jesus call John the Baptist a lamp, John 5:35.

I believe if you consider these things you might be able to refine your answer.

hi K

here it is ;

Mt 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
Mt 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mt 5:15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
Mt 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

but Christ was the light until his death ;

JN 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “ I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
JN 9:5 “While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”

the meaning of the light is ;the hope and faith of the gospel preach to all men ,until the end

June 9, 2014 at 7:11 pm#388024

Participant

I believe we should consider the possibility that light may symbolize different things in different passages. Still the context makes me think it is mostly consistent. This tells us that John the Baptist was the dividing line between two different times just as he was not the light but Jesus and his students were the light.

Matthew 11:12
New English Translation (NET)

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and forceful people lay hold of it.

Luke 16:16
New English Translation (NET)

16 “The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.

Note: I tend to think Matthew 11:12 is supposed to be voicing the same idea as Luke 16:16 but translators seem to have trouble seeing the parallel even though these are the only two times “biazó” is used in the NT.

June 9, 2014 at 7:14 pm#388025

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature

Participant

Quote (jammin @ June 09 2014,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,22:57)

Quote (jammin @ June 06 2014,09:19)

Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2014,03:55)

Jammin.

Quote

do you understand the meaning of essence/nature?

You don not seem to understand the meaning of essence/nature.

I have the essence of the president does not mean I am as powerful as the president.

With no context the statement is vague.

essence or nature means

1.the basic or inherent features of something, especially when
seen as characteristic of it.

2.the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character

the president is just like you. you are both HUMAN. he is not immortal and all powerful. you do have LIMITATIONS.
do you understand? you are not God

Jammin,

The bottom line is the whether human or angel the essential nature of the president is more powerful than my essential nature.

You have already got what you have been convinced essential nature is speaking of in your head before you even read Philippians 2.

the dictionary said
the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character

now my question is, is the president ALL POWERFUL?yes or no?
are YOU ALL POWERFUL? yes or no?

is the president immortaL?ARE YOU IMMORTAL?

Jammin,

You are spinning your wheels and getting nowhere. Here is one definition you gave me.

Quote

the fundamental qualities of a person or thing; identity or essential character

Notice the words ” or essential character”?

June 9, 2014 at 8:42 pm#388032

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,01:11)

Matthew 11:12
New English Translation (NET)

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and forceful people lay hold of it.

Luke 16:16
New English Translation (NET)

16 “The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.

that seems correct to me ,

but the light means always knowledge in truth with the wisdom of God ,

June 9, 2014 at 8:56 pm#388038

Participant

Are you saying ” knowledge in truth with the wisdom of God” is in the word of God?

June 9, 2014 at 9:37 pm#388054

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2014,02:56)

Are you saying ” knowledge in truth with the wisdom of God” is in the word of God?

Pr 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
Pr 1:2 for attaining wisdom and discipline;
for understanding words of insight;
Pr 1:3 for acquiring a disciplined and prudent life,
doing what is right and just and fair;
Pr 1:4 for giving prudence to the simple,
knowledge and discretion to the young—
Pr 1:5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
Pr 1:6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.

Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.

JN 17:17 “ Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

this will make up both

June 9, 2014 at 10:15 pm#388068

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ June 08 2014,19:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2014,04:07)

Now, back to Acts 4. It is clear that the disciples prayed TO the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them.

It is equally clear that they did NOT pray TO “Jesus”.

What does that tell you?

ERVheb 1.2
He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.

Yes,

The ERV has verse 2 correct. There is a God who made the whole world………….. and there is a Son THROUGH WHOM God made the whole world. Oh, and the God who made the whole world also GAVE His Son all things.

So what can we learn from that ERV verse? Well, let me give you the words of your Father, Tertullian. (He was the guy who first came up with “Trinity” to describe a three person in one Godhead theology.)

Your Father said:

He who creates is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is ANOTHER.

So I agree with ALL the scriptures that say GOD created all things, and that He did it THROUGH His firstborn Son Jesus Christ.

But God creating something THROUGH another person doesn't make that other person the God who created the thing. For example, the fact that God created you THROUGH your parents doesn't make your parents the God who created you. The same goes for God's servant Jesus, jammin. The fact that God created THROUGH Jesus doesn't make Jesus the God who actually did the creating.

So re-read the first 5 words of that ERV verse you quoted. And then read those first 5 words again. And then again. And again. And again……….. until it sinks into your head.

Those first 5 words are:

HE made the whole world……….

Who is the “HE” in that context, jammin?

Now, please address the words in the quote box above. I want your answer to how Acts 4 CLEARLY and UNDENIABLY lists Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them.

June 10, 2014 at 4:38 pm#388226

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2014,09:15)

Quote (jammin @ June 08 2014,19:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2014,04:07)

Now, back to Acts 4. It is clear that the disciples prayed TO the one who created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them.

It is equally clear that they did NOT pray TO “Jesus”.

What does that tell you?

ERVheb 1.2
He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.

Yes,

Your Father said:

He who creates is one, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is ANOTHER.

So I agree with ALL the scriptures that say GOD created all things, and that He did it THROUGH His firstborn Son Jesus Christ.

So re-read the first 5 words of that ERV verse you quoted. And then read those first 5 words again. And then again. And again. And again……….. until it sinks into your head.

Those first 5 words are:

HE made the whole world……….

Who is the “HE” in that context, jammin?

God did not create me through my parents. what are you talking about? hahahah. that is not what the bible said. it is written that God created MAN and that is it. no more no less.

your example GOD CREATED ME THROUGH MY PARENTS IS NOT THE SAME AS GOD CREATED ALL THINGS BY HIS SON. JOHN 1.3.

can you give me a verse that says God created man through their parents? ill give you another 1m yrs to find one. hahahha

as i said, the bible teaches us that God created all things through his SON and that is the reason why the son is a creator and not a creation. heb 1.10 gives emphasis to that.

Hebrews 1:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

anyway, nice try boy. hahaha

June 10, 2014 at 4:41 pm#388228