JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

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Quote (jammin @ June 02 2014,10:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2014,04:04)

Mark 13
18 Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.

Jesus said it was GOD who created the world, jammin. Why don't you believe him?

Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

They prayed TO the one who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. That one was called “GOD”.

30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Then they clearly identified Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the “GOD” who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. They called Jesus the “HOLY SERVANT OF” that God who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

And if Jesus is NOT the “GOD” who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them, then Jesus has no choice but to BE one of the “everything in them” that was created BY the “GOD” they prayed to.

do you believe that Christ created the heaven and the earth according to heb 1.10?

Nope. I don't believe that's what Heb 1:10 says at all.

Of course, how COULD that be what Heb 1:10 means, since it would clearly CONTRADICT the scriptures I posted above, and many other ones?

jammin, do you believe Acts 4 shows that Jesus is the holy servant OF the one who actually created all things?

Do you believe Mark 13:18, in which Jesus said GOD (not HIMSELF) created the world?

Would you like to see more scriptures in which Jesus is clearly identified as someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things?

June 3, 2014 at 2:42 am#386580

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Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2014,12:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2014,21:59)

Quote (kerwin @ May 31 2014,14:20)

Do you still agree that the statement “God is Love” does not mean God is literally love?

Do you instead believe God has the qualities of love?

Yes, I agree that God is not LITERALLY the abstract emotion of “love”. Not only does He have the qualities of love, but He is the “epicenter” of love.

Mike,

In John 8:12 and John 9:5 Jesus states “I am the light of the world”

Does that mean that he is literally the light of the world or that he has the qualities of the light of the world?

He is literally the lamp that God sent into the world to shine some spiritual light on us.

He is NOT literally the “sunlight” that brightens the earth.

This one is trickier. For example take “the word of God”. Is Jesus literally “The Word of God”?

Well, yes and no. He is NOT literally a literal word that God spoke from His mouth. But since in this case, “Word” means “spokesman”, yes, he IS literally God's spokesman.

So in the context of Jesus being a lamp that shined the light of God into many hearts, yes, he is literally the light (wonderful counselor) of the world. The world was a brighter place because of him.

But no, he is not literally “light itself” – like when you turn on the light switch.

June 3, 2014 at 3:15 am#386602

kerwin

Participant

Charles,

Quote

Kerwin,

FOR JESUS IT WAS NOT A BAPTISM OF FORGIVENESS SINCE HE WAS SINLESS!

I am not sure that follows and I do know that Scripture states that John's baptism was for the forgiveness of sins. The fact Jesus had nothing to sin may not have effected the type of immersion it was.

It also is possible Jesus was sealing himself to a deeper service to God than he he performed during his earlier life as that is a one purpose of immersion among the Jews. Scripture does not say.

June 3, 2014 at 4:23 am#386625

kerwin

Participant

Mike,

Quote

He is literally the lamp that God sent into the world to shine some spiritual light on us.

John 9:5 states he was the light of the world only as long as he was in the world.

I can see where he is figuratively the lamp that shines the light of the world but I have always thought he was still the lamp of the world.

June 3, 2014 at 6:45 pm#386691

Participant

mikeboll64,June wrote:

[/quote]

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And Jesus told Satan, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Mike,

AND WHAT WAS WRITTEN IT WAS AS A REFERENCE TO JESUS!

SO JESUS IS THE LORD GOD OVER SATAN

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

June 3, 2014 at 6:51 pm#386697

kerwin

Participant

Charles,

Romans 8:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

To condemn sin in the flesh Jesus had to overcome it and that is why he took part in flesh and blood just like his brothers. His temptations came from that satan in him but his fruit came from obeying the teachings of the Holy Spirit within him.

June 3, 2014 at 8:15 pm#386716

Participant

terraricca,June wrote:

[/quote]

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SO IT WAS A LIMITED DOMINION WOULD YOU NOT SAY ;YES

Terraricca,

NO!

ADAM RECEIVED DOMINION AS LONG AS THE EARTH STANDS!

THE ONLY THING WHICH WAS DIFFERENT WAS THAT HE RECEIVED ALL WHAT WAS RELATED TO HIS DISOBEDIENCE WHICH INCLUDED DEATH!

THAT WAS GOD'S SENTENCE!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

June 3, 2014 at 10:47 pm#386755

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ June 03 2014,12:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,13:16)

And Jesus told Satan, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Mike,

AND WHAT WAS WRITTEN IT WAS AS A REFERENCE TO JESUS!

SO JESUS IS THE LORD GOD OVER SATAN

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

No sir. Jesus referred to the command that it was not wise for him to put HIS GOD Jehovah to the test, by throwing himself off the mountain and expecting God to send angels to save him.

Charles, Jesus himself told us that our God was also his God. Jesus himself worshiped that God along with the other Jews.

June 3, 2014 at 11:04 pm#386762

terraricca

Participant

Quote (carmel @ June 04 2014,02:15)

terraricca,June wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

SO IT WAS A LIMITED DOMINION WOULD YOU NOT SAY ;YES

Terraricca,

NO!

ADAM RECEIVED DOMINION AS LONG AS THE EARTH STANDS!

THE ONLY THING WHICH WAS DIFFERENT WAS THAT HE RECEIVED ALL WHAT WAS RELATED TO HIS DISOBEDIENCE WHICH INCLUDED DEATH!

THAT WAS GOD'S SENTENCE!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

cHARLES

BUT ADAM DID NOT YET SIN WHEN HE RECEIVED THE DOMINION ,

June 4, 2014 at 6:39 am#386857

Participant

mikeboll64,June wrote:

[/quote]

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God alone created all things. But God has done that through many various vessels, including Jesus and my parents.

Mike,

THE ABOVE IS KID’S STUFF!

IT HAPPENED ONCE UPON A TIME!

AND YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF!

THE PLAIN TRUTH IS:

GOD DESIGNED THAT:

YOUR PARENTS DETERMINED BOTH YOUR LIFE AND WHAT KIND OF SOUL YOU RECEIVED FROM GOD!

THEREFORE YOUR PARENTS ARE CO CREATORS

GOD DESIGNED THAT HE IS READY TO BE SUBJECT TO HUMANS REGARDING BIRTHS ON EARTH!

HE ONLY ACT IN RELATION TO THEIR SEXUAL ACT, TO SUPPLY SOULS!

FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SOUL! HIS ONLY INTEREST

SO HUMANS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CORRUPTED FLESH!NOT GOD

HUMANS TO DAY ARE DESTROYING HUMANS TO BE, EMBRYOS

MORE THAN HUMANS’ NATURAL DEATH WHICH IS GOD’S PROCESS!

SO HUMANS OVERRULED GOD REGARDING THEIR OWN DEATH!

SO ALL IN ALL:

HUMANS HAVE CONTROL BOTH ON THEIR OWN BIRTHS, AND ON THEIR OWN DEATHS

THAT’S WHAT GOD DESIGNED: THAT MAN HAS TOTAL DOMINION ON EARTH

THE REASON THAT THE FLESH ALWAYS SUFFERS FOR THE SAKE OF THE SOUL!

THE REASON THAT JESUS SUFFERED IN HIS FLESH BODY FOR ALL HUMAN'S SOULS!

HE MADE ALL JUSTICE LIKE HE SAID ON HIS BAPTISM, AND ERADICATED SATANA FROM AUTOMATIC POSSESSION OF ALL SOULS ON CONCEPTION, DUE TO ADAM'S SIN

IN ORDER TO ALLOW HUMANS TO HAVE ABSOLUTE DOMINION ON EARTH

AND THEY WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDINGLY IN THE TRUTH

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

June 4, 2014 at 6:46 am#386860

Participant

terraricca,June wrote:

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BUT ADAM DID NOT YET SIN WHEN HE RECEIVED THE DOMINION ,

Terraricca,

THEREFORE, ONCE HE SINNED HE LOST HIS DOMINION, SINCE SATAN TOOK OVER!

BUT 2000 YEARS AGO, GOD CAME AS MAN IN JESUS, ERADICATED SATANA FROM THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS OF CREATION, AND GAVE HUMANS ABSOLUTE DOMINION TO MAN AS LONG AS EARTH STANDS, AND THEY WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDINGLY

JESUS SAID:

IF THE SON MAKE YOU FREE, YOU WILL BE FREE INDEED

AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

June 4, 2014 at 4:15 pm#386907

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2014,05:18)

Quote (jammin @ June 02 2014,22:57)

kerwin,

a word for word doctrine in the bible is enough to tell you that Christ is the Word in john 1.1

it is your choice not to believe what is written in the bible and i can not force you to accept God's word. only God can open your heart and mind

Jammin,

A word for word translation of John 1:1 teaches us only that the word of God was with God and has the qualities of God in the beginning.

To jump from that point and assume that means the word is the one true God is no different than looking as John's words to effect that the one true God is Love and jump to the conclusion he is literally love.

You read what you want into Scripture not what God wants for God teaches us he is but one being and three beings united as one.

john will never contradict himself. a moron can say that the Word in john 1.1 is not Christ but if you really know how to read the context of the bible, then you will understand that it is Christ and not what you think.

Revelation 19:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God

who is that? that is Christ! his name is the Word of God. i remember you told Me before that the verse said his name WILL BE CALLED but an honest man will never say that. it is very obvious in the scripture that HIS NAME IS THE WORD OF GOD and not will be called the Word of God.

you are not an honest man kerwin,. you preach what is not written and i cant blame you because you are blind. i hope God will open your eyes someday.

June 4, 2014 at 4:20 pm#386908

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,13:33)

Quote (jammin @ June 02 2014,10:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2014,04:04)

Jesus said it was GOD who created the world, jammin. Why don't you believe him?

Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

They prayed TO the one who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. That one was called “GOD”.

30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

do you believe that Christ created the heaven and the earth according to heb 1.10?

Nope. I don't believe that's what Heb 1:10 says at all.

Of course, how COULD that be what Heb 1:10 means, since it would clearly CONTRADICT the scriptures I posted above, and many other ones?

jammin, do you believe Acts 4 shows that Jesus is the holy servant OF the one who actually created all things?

Do you believe Mark 13:18, in which Jesus said GOD (not HIMSELF) created the world?

Would you like to see more scriptures in which Jesus is clearly identified as someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things?

it does not contradict the scripture.
i just want to make this simple because it is hard to explain things to a moron like you.

no version says that THE LORD who made the heaven and the earth in heb 1.10 is NOT the son.
if you can give me a version that says in heb 1.10 that the Lord IS NOT THE SON, then you win. if not, then it only proves that you are the king of mosquito coil

I CAN GIVE YOU MANY VERSIONS THAT SAY IN HEB 1.10 THAT THE LORD WHO MADE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH IS THE SON IF YOU WANT TO HAHAHA

June 4, 2014 at 4:21 pm#386909

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2014,13:26)

Quote (jammin @ June 02 2014,10:50)

now your brain is working. hahaha

those scholars know greek grammar but you don't!

Agreed on both counts. My brain IS working, and those scholars DO know Greek.

YES! you are right mike! hallelujah!

that is why they said that the word is a god is NOT GRAMMATICALLY FAVOURED

bingo! hahahah

June 4, 2014 at 4:23 pm#386910

Participant

mike,

im still waiting for you to answer my question about the essence of GOd.

i am glad GOd opened your eyes about the nature of Christ and his father. you now believe that they are equal in essence and that is an improvement from you. my question is, what is the essence of GOd?

June 4, 2014 at 11:51 pm#387020

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ June 04 2014,10:20)

no version says that THE LORD who made the heaven and the earth in heb 1.10 is NOT the son.

There is also no GREEK version that says those words were said about the Son.

But back to the scriptures I listed, jammin…….. since I listed mine first.

What about Acts 4? Can you see that the one they prayed TO was the one who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and EVERYTHING in them?

And can you see that Jesus WASN'T the one they prayed TO – but the holy servant OF the one they prayed TO?

How about Mark 13:18? Who did JESUS say created the world? Himself? Or GOD?

Here's another one:

Isaiah 42
5 This is what God the LORD says—
the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
who gives breath to its people,
and life to those who walk on it:

6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,

7 to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

Notice how JEHOVAH GOD is the one who created and stretched out the heavens.

Notice how He is talking to JESUS – who DIDN'T create and stretch out the heavens.

See? The one DOING the talking is the one who created the heavens………. not the one being talked to.

There are more. Would you like to see them as well?

June 5, 2014 at 12:04 am#387025

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Quote (jammin @ June 04 2014,10:21)

that is why they said that the word is a god is NOT GRAMMATICALLY FAVOURED

jammin,

We are talking about the difference between what is POSSIBLE, and what certain Trinitarians LIKE.

Who cares what they LIKE? Because they would LIKE us to believe that the Son OF God IS the very God he is the Son OF. So what they LIKE is really of no consequence, since it's clear they all need to have their heads examined.

What's important is that “a god” IS a viable translation of John 1:1c – whether or not the Trinitarians LIKE that translation.

So we know that both translations are possible. One of them calls for our one and only God to have been WITH our one and only God in the beginning. You can throw that one out like a bunch of garbage, because it is complete and utter NONSENSE.

The other one says Jesus is “a god” who was with “THE God” in the beginning. That one is scripturally accurate, since Jehovah is the “God OF gods”, and scripture teaches us that Jesus IS one of the gods that Jehovah is the God OF.

I have said all I need to say on the matter.

June 5, 2014 at 12:09 am#387028

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ June 04 2014,10:23)

mike,

im still waiting for you to answer my question about the essence of GOd.

The essence of God is “spirit”. He is a SPIRIT being, and therefore “SPIRIT” is His essence.

Jesus, Michael, Gabriel, and the myriads of other spirit sons of God also share that same SPIRIT essence.

But none of those SONS of God are the very God they are the SON of.

The very thought that some man, years ago, would even claim such an illogical and asinine thing as a son being the same entity as his father, befuddles me.

Why MILLIONS of other people would listen to that man, and believe the same nonsense, is completely beyond my comprehension.

June 5, 2014 at 4:34 pm#387210

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2014,11:04)

Quote (jammin @ June 04 2014,10:21)

that is why they said that the word is a god is NOT GRAMMATICALLY FAVOURED

jammin,

We are talking about the difference between what is POSSIBLE, and what certain Trinitarians LIKE.

What's important is that “a god” IS a viable translation of John 1:1c – whether or not the Trinitarians LIKE that translation.

I have said all I need to say on the matter.

as i said, it is hard to explain these things to a moron like you. why dont you study greek and get back to me once you have enough knowledge??? are you better than those scholars? you have nothing to offer mike. the Word was a god is a possible translation but it is not grammatically favoured according to the greek scholars. that is not hard to understand.

the kai theos in john 1.1 was translated a god by your favorite bias version NWT but if you will check the 2 cor 1.3 kai theos, they translated it as God and not god which is very obvious that these translators do not want their readers to know the truth.

2 cor 1.3
3 ευλογητος ο θεος και πατηρ του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου ο πατηρ των οικτιρμων και θεος πασης παρακλησεως

john 1.1
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

June 5, 2014 at 4:38 pm#387211