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Mike,
Quote In John 3, Jesus was teaching that we must actually CONSIST OF something other than flesh in order to see or enter the kingdom of God. You are making this statement on your own authority. You fail to address the verses I gave you.
Titus 3:5
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)5 he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water[a] of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Footnotes:Titus 3:5 Gk washing
Jesus saves his people through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. You cannot enter the kingdom of God unless you are saved by the water of rebirth and renewal via the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:9
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,
1 Corinthians 6:10
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:21
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)21 envy,[a] drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:Galatians 5:21 Other ancient authorities add murder
Ephesians 5:5
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
You have to live by a new spirit and so become a new self to enter the kingdom of God. Your old self that bears the fruit of your old self will not do it.
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,23:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:21) I can be “equal to” John the Baptist in “essence”, “nature”, “form”, or whatever word you want to use.
therefore, Christ is equal with God the father in essence. correct?
Jammin,What essence are you speaking of. Mike may consider the essence(important characteristics) of John the Baptist is that he served God with zeal while you may consider the essence(important characteristics) of John the Baptist is that he is human.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,07:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2014,08:57) Quote “Did NOT consider equality with God something TO BE GRASPED” means that Jesus DIDN'T even CONSIDER being equal to his and our God, Jehovah. In other words, Jesus never gave one thought to the possibility that he could be equal to God. He knew equality with God was IMPOSSIBLE, so he never even CONSIDERED it.
kerwin…….This is a right understanding. Jesus never thought to try to rob God to make himself equal to him. what you posted is right brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Those were my words, Gene. You have accidentally given ME one of your famous “atta boys”!How does that sit with you?
Mike,I did mention plunder(spoils).
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,19:45) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2014,13:04) Jamin Quote you may also check and read my answer to kerwin and mike I did ,but there was no value in it ,
if you can not separate the being of his nature then you have a problem ;
see as their are many lions they are in the same nature but not all are one lion they are all different lions ,
so even , we all men are same in nature none of us are the same ,all are different ,
so it is with the heavenly beings they have same or similar nature but are all different beings ;
but what scripture tells us is that their is ONE WHO IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN ALL OF THEM AND THAT IS THE SON ,WHY IS THAT
BECAUSE THE SON IS THE FIRST BORN OF CREATION THIS MAKES HIM SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EVEN THOUGH HE STILL A HEAVENLY BEING IN NATURE ,BUT HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE DIRECTLY ,AND THE OTHERS ARE CREATED THROUGH HIM ,AND SO BECAUSE HE IS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE HE IS NOT THE SAME BEING ,AS HIS FATHER ,
AND PLEASE STOP MOCKING OTHERS
firstborn of all creation does not mean he was created by God.you need to read the context before making any conclusions for this verse.
Job 18:13
It shall devour the strength of his skin: even the firstborn of death shall devour his strength.do you understand that verse??? you should not take it literally as well as col 1.15.
col 1.15 speaks about the supremacy of christ and not as a cration of God.
New International Version
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
the firstborn of every creature; not the first of the creation, or the first creature God made; for all things in Colossians 1:16 are said to be created by him, and therefore he himself can never be a creature; nor is he the first in the new creation, for the apostle in the context is speaking of the old creation, and not the new: but the sense either is, that he was begotten of the Father in a manner inconceivable and inexpressible by men, before any creatures were in being; or that he is the “first Parent”, or bringer forth of every creature into being, as the word will bear to be rendered, if instead of we read which is no more than changing the place of the accent, and may be very easily ventured upon, as is done by an ancient writer (g), who observes, that the word is used in this sense by Homer, and is the same as “first Parent”, and “first Creator”; and the rather this may be done, seeing the accents were all added since the apostle's days, and especially seeing it makes his reasoning, in the following verses, appear with much more beauty, strength, and force: he is the first Parent of every creature, “for by him were all things created”, &c. Colossians 1:16, or it may be understood of Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him; he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word “firstborn” to be synonymous with the word “king”, and explain it by , “a great one”, and “a prince” (h); see Psalm 89:27.
jaminJob 18:5 “The lamp of the wicked is snuffed out;
the flame of his fire stops burning.this is the one of which is talking in Job ,do not try to make me as blind as you are ,
you like to change the scriptures ,but you stumble on it ,for your destruction ,what I told you is the truth ,if you like it or not ;your choice
Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2014,05:16) Jammin, Quote I DID NOT CLAIM THAT THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON. So you have changed your doctrine and now claim Jesus is equal to the one God but is not the one God.
i did not change my doctrine. your reading comprehension is so poor.
you may read again all of my posts.
i said the son is like his father. they are both God in nature. they are equal in essence.a good example is ( albeit i mentioned this before many times, ill repeat it just for your sake)
you and your father are equal in essence. you are both HUMAN. that is your essense(nature). you are HUMAN.
Christ and his father are equal in nature, God.
the bible said there is God the father and God the only son.believe it or not
John 1:18
New International Version (NIV)18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
you do not want to believe GW version because it is not applicable to your fairy tale doctrine. whatever version you choose, it will still not support your imagination.
Philippians 2:6-7
New Life Version (NLV)6 Jesus has always been as God is. But He did not hold to His rights as God. 7 He put aside everything that belonged to Him and made Himself the same as a servant who is owned by someone. He became human by being born as a man.
if you do understand english, you will know the true meaning of the verse. but i think you need to study more because your reading comprehension is so poor. it is non-sense to tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God.
that is so very basic and even a grade one student can understand thatQuote (jammin @ May 23 2014,22:17) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2014,05:16) Jammin, Quote I DID NOT CLAIM THAT THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON. So you have changed your doctrine and now claim Jesus is equal to the one God but is not the one God.
i did not change my doctrine. your reading comprehension is so poor.
you may read again all of my posts.
i said the son is like his father. they are both God in nature. they are equal in essence.a good example is ( albeit i mentioned this before many times, ill repeat it just for your sake)
you and your father are equal in essence. you are both HUMAN. that is your essense(nature). you are HUMAN.
Christ and his father are equal in nature, God.
the bible said there is God the father and God the only son.believe it or not
John 1:18
New International Version (NIV)18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
you do not want to believe GW version because it is not applicable to your fairy tale doctrine. whatever version you choose, it will still not support your imagination.
Philippians 2:6-7
New Life Version (NLV)6 Jesus has always been as God is. But He did not hold to His rights as God. 7 He put aside everything that belonged to Him and made Himself the same as a servant who is owned by someone. He became human by being born as a man.
if you do understand english, you will know the true meaning of the verse. but i think you need to study more because your reading comprehension is so poor. it is non-sense to tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God.
that is so very basic and even a grade one student can understand that
jaminJn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known. NIV
1984
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus is still the servant of God Almighty
Mike,
IRONICALLY, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT,THAT PARTICULAR CHAPTER DECLARES EMPHATICALLY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER!
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
FIRST AND FOREMOST, THAT CHAPTER STATED THREE TITLES FOR JESUS, AND NONE OF THEM HAS THE WORD SERVANT ACCORDING TO!
THE DRB: THE OLDEST VERSION!
THE FIRST TITLE:
Acts 4:10 …………..by the name of
OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST , ………………………
KJV. STATES:
4:10………….Jesus Christ……
THE SECOND TITLE:
4:27………… YOUR HOLY CHILD JESUS,
KJV. STATES THE SAME!
THE THIRD TITLE!
4:30 …………..by the name of
YOUR HOLY SON JESUS.
THE KJV. STATES:
……………….by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
SO JESUS IS NO SERVANT AT ALLANYMORE THAT’S OVER AND DONE WITH!
HE IS IN GOD’S GLORY!
ALMIGHTY GOD IS SERVING JESUS TILL HE MAKE JESUS ENEMIES HIS FOOT STOOL!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
JAMIN
Quote Philippians 2:6-7
New Life Version (NLV)6 Jesus has always been as God is. But He did not hold to His rights as God. 7 He put aside everything that belonged to Him and made Himself the same as a servant who is owned by someone. He became human by being born as a man.
Phil 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,looks you out of scriptures sonny
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote When the very first sentence of your post consists of such unscriptural nonsense, I don't even bother to read any further. Mike,
I DON'T BLAME YOU, SINCE YOU ALWAYS EXPECT SCRIPTURE TO GIVE YOU EVERYTHING ON A PLATE!
BUT ANSWER THIS:
WHAT DID THE FATHER ANOINTED HIS SON JESUS WITH?
DID HE USE OIL?
DID HE USE HIS HOLY SPIRIT?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jammin @ May 23 2014,22:17) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2014,05:16) Jammin, Quote I DID NOT CLAIM THAT THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON. So you have changed your doctrine and now claim Jesus is equal to the one God but is not the one God.
i did not change my doctrine. your reading comprehension is so poor.
you may read again all of my posts.
i said the son is like his father. they are both God in nature. they are equal in essence.a good example is ( albeit i mentioned this before many times, ill repeat it just for your sake)
you and your father are equal in essence. you are both HUMAN. that is your essense(nature). you are HUMAN.
Christ and his father are equal in nature, God.
the bible said there is God the father and God the only son.believe it or not
John 1:18
New International Version (NIV)18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
you do not want to believe GW version because it is not applicable to your fairy tale doctrine. whatever version you choose, it will still not support your imagination.
Philippians 2:6-7
New Life Version (NLV)6 Jesus has always been as God is. But He did not hold to His rights as God. 7 He put aside everything that belonged to Him and made Himself the same as a servant who is owned by someone. He became human by being born as a man.
if you do understand english, you will know the true meaning of the verse. but i think you need to study more because your reading comprehension is so poor. it is non-sense to tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God.
that is so very basic and even a grade one student can understand that
Jammin,I am sure you did claim that Jesus did not exist in the form of the Father but I do not feel like taking to time to go back and seek for where you said it or think it would be worth my time to do so.
John 1:18
New International Version (NIV)18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
It has comments that you did not quote. They are relevant and thus should be quoted to avoid the appearance of dishonesty.
Footnotes:
John 1:18 Some manuscripts but the only Son, who
This is a point that is passage that is debatable among manuscripts. Translators debate the correct translation of the two manuscript variation and then interpretations take the variance even further.
It does not prove Jesus is God. I do not know why trinitarians attempt to use reason when they are willing to accept the unreasonable statement that God can be tempted by evil even as we are.
The God of heaven is unable to be tempted by evil in any circumstance. Temptation of that type is completely alien to his nature.
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,07:37) of course you are not john but you are equal in essence and that is what i am trying to say in this forum but unfortunately, your brain is not working properly.
That's funny….. because that is exactly what I'M trying to say also.I am not John, but equal to John in essence…………
Jesus is not God, but equal to God in essence……….
Now do you understand?
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,07:45) firstborn of all creation does not mean he was created by God.
Sure it does, just like “firstborn from the dead” means he was the first of the dead to be born again.Revelation 3:14 and Proverbs 8:22-25 also back up our understanding of Col 1:15, jammin.
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,07:49) it is written Philippians 2:6
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
So let's use the recent analogy we've been using, jammin.Although Mike was in the form of John the Baptist, and equal with John the Baptist…………
Now does my sentence mean I also AM John the Baptist? If not, then your sentence doesn't mean Jesus IS God.
Btw, how does the rest of that GW translation go? I mean, if verse 7 talks about Jesus NOT considering equality with God, how would that fit with GW's “equal with God” rendering of verse 6?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 22 2014,09:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,10:37) The natural body verses the Spiritual body is different because the body is different that the spirit. The similarity is the natural body is not let by the spirit and the Spiritual body is.
Kerwin,There is no such thing as a “spiritual body”. There is no “BODY” that is “led by spirit”. A PERSON can either be led by spirit or not – but a BODY cannot.
In John 3, Jesus was teaching that we must actually CONSIST OF something other than flesh in order to see or enter the kingdom of God.
It is clear that you see it differently. That is your right.
Mike…….So what is the “IT”, that is sown in corruption and raised incorruptible, sown a natural “BODY” and raised a SPIRITUAL BODY, Paul was talking about then? If as you say “there is no spiritual body”. Why change scriptures to meet you personal dogmas ?Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Gene,I should have finished my thought. What I meant, and what could be deciphered from my recent posts to Kerwin on this matter, is:
There is no such thing as a “spiritual body” – in the sense that you are meaning, ie: “a body that is led by spirit”.
Kerwin believes a “spiritual body” is a body which is led by the Spirit. But a flesh body is a non-sentient thing, and could not possibly be “led by the Spirit”.
So when Paul says “spiritual body”, he is NOT talking about a non-sentient body that can be led by Spirit.
You were right to point out my mistake, because as it was written, it goes against scripture.
Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,11:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:21) I can be “equal to” John the Baptist in “essence”, “nature”, “form”, or whatever word you want to use.
therefore, Christ is equal with God the father in essence. correct?
Therefore it would be possible for you to CLAIM that Christ is equal with God in essence.It wouldn't mean that claim is true, or scripturally supported, but you could surely CLAIM such a thing.
But jammin, if you did claim such a thing, then you would at the same time be saying Jesus was NOT God.
Because for one to be “equal with God”, they can't also BE God.
Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2014,12:18) Mike, Quote There is no such thing as a “spiritual body”. There is no “BODY” that is “led by spirit”. A PERSON can either be led by spirit or not – but a BODY cannot. Scripture.
No, YOU'RE the one making the claim that a non-sentient BODY can be “led by Spirit”.It is YOUR claim, so YOU must be the one to scripturally support said claim.
Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2014,12:31) Mike, Quote In John 3, Jesus was teaching that we must actually CONSIST OF something other than flesh in order to see or enter the kingdom of God. You are making this statement on your own authority. You fail to address the verses I gave you.
The verses you list don't say anything against what I told you about Jesus' teaching in John 3, Kerwin.What does flesh give birth to, Kerwin?
What does spirit give birth to?
Or, more to the point, does spirit give birth to flesh?
Quote (carmel @ May 23 2014,12:50) THE SECOND TITLE: 4:27………… YOUR HOLY CHILD JESUS,
KJV. STATES THE SAME!
Revelation 3:12
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.Charles, how many times does Jesus mention “my God” in that verse?
Does God Almighty call anyone “my God”?
Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2014,14:12) It does not prove Jesus is God. I do not know why trinitarians attempt to use reason when they are willing to accept the unreasonable statement that God can be tempted by evil even as we are.
Trinitarians are unreasonable to even make a translation that says, “No one has ever seen God, but God came to make Him known.”Hmmmm……….. let's see…………….
We DID see Jesus, but we DIDN'T see God. Yet Jesus IS God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 25 2014,14:17) Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2014,14:12) It does not prove Jesus is God. I do not know why trinitarians attempt to use reason when they are willing to accept the unreasonable statement that God can be tempted by evil even as we are.
Trinitarians are unreasonable to even make a translation that says, “No one has ever seen God, but God came to make Him known.”Hmmmm……….. let's see…………….
We DID see Jesus, but we DIDN'T see God. Yet Jesus IS God.
We hear God's words through the mouth of Jesus.
God's spirit is in Jesus.
Same in heaven; God speaks through the mouth of His word.
On earth,we hear God's words but we see Jesus.wakeup.
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