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Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,06:58) Quote (jammin @ May 20 2014,20:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2014,12:58) Quote (jammin @ May 16 2014,10:45) if christ is not equal with God then paul should not say did not consider equality with God something to be grasped. do you understand the logic here? commentaries also supported my view that Christ is equal with God
Pulpit Commentary
“to be equal with God.” Christ was equal with God (John 5:18; John 10:30). He did not cling to the outward manifestation of that equality.Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
thought it no robbery to be equal with God; the Father; for if he was in the same form, nature, and essence, he must be equal to him, as he is;even the jews know that Christ claimed to be equal with God
John 5:18
New International Version (NIV)18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
jammin,“Did NOT consider equality with God something TO BE GRASPED” means that Jesus DIDN'T even CONSIDER being equal to his and our God, Jehovah. In other words, Jesus never gave one thought to the possibility that he could be equal to God. He knew equality with God was IMPOSSIBLE, so he never even CONSIDERED it.
As for your commentaries, like I said before: Even IF someone says Jesus is “equal TO God”, they are at the same time saying Jesus is NOT God.
Don't you understand this? If you are “equal TO” the Creator of the universe”, then it means you AREN'T “the Creator of the universe”.
If I am “equal TO” Bob Marley, then it is clear that I am NOT “Bob Marley”.
Do you understand that? So any scholar who tells you that Jesus was “equal TO” God, is also, with those very words, telling you that Jesus ISN'T God.
you speak english but you do not understand english. i told you to take ielts. it will help you a lot.the jews will never tell “making himself equal with God.“
if Christ did not mean that.phil 2.6-7 tells us that he is really equal with God. bible versions and commentaries agree to me.
this only tells us that your reading skill is very poor.
Jammin,You are imagining things or mishearing. Jesus did not see equality with God as plunder(spoils). Many English translation soften it though the more recent edition of the NIV seems to go even further.
the jews understood what christ said. you do not understand what christ said.
why tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God? it does not make any sense.
paul is not lying and it is proven by the word of God.
John also tells us that the Word was God.you and your father are equal in essence. do you understand that>? the son is equal with the father in essence. that is what the bible wants to tell us.
T,
you may also check and read my answer to kerwin and mike
May 17 2014,12:58]“Did NOT consider equality with God something TO BE GRASPED” means that Jesus DIDN'T even CONSIDER being equal to his and our God, Jehovah. In other words, Jesus never gave one thought to the possibility that he could be equal to God. He knew equality with God was IMPOSSIBLE, so he never even CONSIDERED it.[/quote]
kerwin…….This is a right understanding. Jesus never thought to try to rob God to make himself equal to him. what you posted is right brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2014,09:20) Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2014,21:00) Galatians 5:16-26 gives the lesson about those who live by the flesh not entering the kingdom of heaven.
Galatians 5
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
So much for your invention of “spiritual flesh”, huh?
Mike,That would be flesh as in carnal not flesh as in skin or body. We get carnal from the Latin word that means flesh. Flesh also has a meaning of human nature which ties into natural verses Spiritual.
The natural body verses the Spiritual body is different because the body is different that the spirit. The similarity is the natural body is not let by the spirit and the Spiritual body is. Natural verses supernatural.
Out current sub-topic is not about the body but about the spirit and reborn in the spirit.
Titus 3:5
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)5 he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water[a] of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
I am sure you know that those that are saved will inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus saved believers by the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,19:42) Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,06:58)
Jammin,You are imagining things or mishearing. Jesus did not see equality with God as plunder(spoils). Many English translation soften it though the more recent edition of the NIV seems to go even further.
the jews understood what christ said. you do not understand what christ said.
why tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God? it does not make any sense.
paul is not lying and it is proven by the word of God.
John also tells us that the Word was God.you and your father are equal in essence. do you understand that>? the son is equal with the father in essence. that is what the bible wants to tell us.
Jammin,You are deriving your doctrine from the words of unbelievers and that is not wise. You claim these unbelievers knew what they were speaking of. You give no evidence which makes me think it is your imagination. I do not know for sure. The Jews today in some ways are more in line with Jesus' teachings than the Pharisees of that day appear to have been.
I do know and understand what Jesus told them. He told them that God was in him by the Spirit and Jesus was in God by the Spirit. He then told them he was the Son of God. None of these thing is confessing he is God.
Given the two, I will go by Jesus' words.
Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,07:38) being equal to bob marley does mean that I AM BOB MARLEY. do you understand english?
Apparently better than you do.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2014,08:57) Quote “Did NOT consider equality with God something TO BE GRASPED” means that Jesus DIDN'T even CONSIDER being equal to his and our God, Jehovah. In other words, Jesus never gave one thought to the possibility that he could be equal to God. He knew equality with God was IMPOSSIBLE, so he never even CONSIDERED it.
kerwin…….This is a right understanding. Jesus never thought to try to rob God to make himself equal to him. what you posted is right brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Those were my words, Gene. You have accidentally given ME one of your famous “atta boys”!How does that sit with you?
Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,07:38) of course im not bob marley but we are equal in essence.
So then you CAN be “equal to” Bob Marley, since you are not ACTUALLY Bob Marley, right?That is what I'm trying to tell you.
I can be “equal to” John the Baptist in “essence”, “nature”, “form”, or whatever word you want to use. But the very fact that I am EQUAL TO John the Baptist PROHIBITS me from actually BEING John the Baptist.
Do you seriously not understand this?
IF Jesus was “equal to” God, then that very fact would PROHIBIT Jesus from actually BEING God.
There is but ONE Most High God, jammin. If you say Jesus is “EQUAL TO” that one Most High God, then you are, at the very same time, saying that Jesus is NOT the Most High God he is “EQUAL TO”.
Lay off the mosquito coil, okay?
Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,10:37) The natural body verses the Spiritual body is different because the body is different that the spirit. The similarity is the natural body is not let by the spirit and the Spiritual body is.
Kerwin,There is no such thing as a “spiritual body”. There is no “BODY” that is “led by spirit”. A PERSON can either be led by spirit or not – but a BODY cannot.
In John 3, Jesus was teaching that we must actually CONSIST OF something other than flesh in order to see or enter the kingdom of God.
It is clear that you see it differently. That is your right.
Jamin
Quote you may also check and read my answer to kerwin and mike I did ,but there was no value in it ,
if you can not separate the being of his nature then you have a problem ;
see as their are many lions they are in the same nature but not all are one lion they are all different lions ,
so even , we all men are same in nature none of us are the same ,all are different ,
so it is with the heavenly beings they have same or similar nature but are all different beings ;
but what scripture tells us is that their is ONE WHO IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN ALL OF THEM AND THAT IS THE SON ,WHY IS THAT
BECAUSE THE SON IS THE FIRST BORN OF CREATION THIS MAKES HIM SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EVEN THOUGH HE STILL A HEAVENLY BEING IN NATURE ,BUT HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE DIRECTLY ,AND THE OTHERS ARE CREATED THROUGH HIM ,AND SO BECAUSE HE IS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE HE IS NOT THE SAME BEING ,AS HIS FATHER ,
AND PLEASE STOP MOCKING OTHERS
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:21) Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,07:38) of course im not bob marley but we are equal in essence.
So then you CAN be “equal to” Bob Marley, since you are not ACTUALLY Bob Marley, right?That is what I'm trying to tell you.
I can be “equal to” John the Baptist in “essence”, “nature”, “form”, or whatever word you want to use. But the very fact that I am EQUAL TO John the Baptist PROHIBITS me from actually BEING John the Baptist.
Do you seriously not understand this?
IF Jesus was “equal to” God, then that very fact would PROHIBIT Jesus from actually BEING God.
There is but ONE Most High God, jammin. If you say Jesus is “EQUAL TO” that one Most High God, then you are, at the very same time, saying that Jesus is NOT the Most High God he is “EQUAL TO”.
Lay off the mosquito coil, okay?
did i say JEsus is the God the father? where can you find that?you said:
But the very fact that I am EQUAL TO John the Baptist PROHIBITS me from actually BEING John the Baptist.now you are telling that you are equal to JOHN. hahaha
of course you are not john but you are equal in essence and that is what i am trying to say in this forum but unfortunately, your brain is not working properly. hahahaI DID NOT CLAIM THAT THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON. I SAID THE SON IS EQUAL WITH GOD. They are equal in essence. they are both God by nature.
you and john are both HUMAN by nature. this is very basic mike and now you are accepting this truth and that is a good news! hahahahQuote (terraricca @ May 22 2014,13:04) Jamin Quote you may also check and read my answer to kerwin and mike I did ,but there was no value in it ,
if you can not separate the being of his nature then you have a problem ;
see as their are many lions they are in the same nature but not all are one lion they are all different lions ,
so even , we all men are same in nature none of us are the same ,all are different ,
so it is with the heavenly beings they have same or similar nature but are all different beings ;
but what scripture tells us is that their is ONE WHO IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN ALL OF THEM AND THAT IS THE SON ,WHY IS THAT
BECAUSE THE SON IS THE FIRST BORN OF CREATION THIS MAKES HIM SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT EVEN THOUGH HE STILL A HEAVENLY BEING IN NATURE ,BUT HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE DIRECTLY ,AND THE OTHERS ARE CREATED THROUGH HIM ,AND SO BECAUSE HE IS CREATED FROM HIS FATHER NATURE HE IS NOT THE SAME BEING ,AS HIS FATHER ,
AND PLEASE STOP MOCKING OTHERS
firstborn of all creation does not mean he was created by God.you need to read the context before making any conclusions for this verse.
Job 18:13
It shall devour the strength of his skin: even the firstborn of death shall devour his strength.do you understand that verse??? you should not take it literally as well as col 1.15.
col 1.15 speaks about the supremacy of christ and not as a cration of God.
New International Version
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
the firstborn of every creature; not the first of the creation, or the first creature God made; for all things in Colossians 1:16 are said to be created by him, and therefore he himself can never be a creature; nor is he the first in the new creation, for the apostle in the context is speaking of the old creation, and not the new: but the sense either is, that he was begotten of the Father in a manner inconceivable and inexpressible by men, before any creatures were in being; or that he is the “first Parent”, or bringer forth of every creature into being, as the word will bear to be rendered, if instead of we read which is no more than changing the place of the accent, and may be very easily ventured upon, as is done by an ancient writer (g), who observes, that the word is used in this sense by Homer, and is the same as “first Parent”, and “first Creator”; and the rather this may be done, seeing the accents were all added since the apostle's days, and especially seeing it makes his reasoning, in the following verses, appear with much more beauty, strength, and force: he is the first Parent of every creature, “for by him were all things created”, &c. Colossians 1:16, or it may be understood of Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all creatures; being God's firstborn, he is heir of all things, the right of government belongs to him; he is higher than the kings of the earth, or the angels in heaven, the highest rank of creatures, being the Creator and upholder of all, as the following words show; so the Jews make the word “firstborn” to be synonymous with the word “king”, and explain it by , “a great one”, and “a prince” (h); see Psalm 89:27.Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2014,04:03) Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,19:42) Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,06:58)
Jammin,You are imagining things or mishearing. Jesus did not see equality with God as plunder(spoils). Many English translation soften it though the more recent edition of the NIV seems to go even further.
the jews understood what christ said. you do not understand what christ said.
why tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God? it does not make any sense.
paul is not lying and it is proven by the word of God.
John also tells us that the Word was God.you and your father are equal in essence. do you understand that>? the son is equal with the father in essence. that is what the bible wants to tell us.
Jammin,You are deriving your doctrine from the words of unbelievers and that is not wise. You claim these unbelievers knew what they were speaking of. You give no evidence which makes me think it is your imagination. I do not know for sure. The Jews today in some ways are more in line with Jesus' teachings than the Pharisees of that day appear to have been.
I do know and understand what Jesus told them. He told them that God was in him by the Spirit and Jesus was in God by the Spirit. He then told them he was the Son of God. None of these thing is confessing he is God.
Given the two, I will go by Jesus' words.
it is writtenPhilippians 2:6
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
apparently, mike and most of you do not believe this truth but if you read the context, it will tell us that your fairy doctrine is not the real doctrine.
paul said he is equal with God.
bible versions and commentaries agree to me
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
thought it no robbery to be equal with God; the Father; for if he was in the same form, nature, and essence, he must be equal to him, as he is; for he has the same perfections, as eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, and self-existence:
sorry boy
Jamming……….why did Jesus say the farther was greater then he was , if he were a God, and why did Jesus ever say “for THOU (that means someone other then the person speaking) are the ONLY (that means there is no other) TRUE God (that means all others are false Gods) . Why did not Jesus say “WE” are the only true GOD'S. Instead of “THOU” are?
All who portray Jesus as a God are not of the TRUTH, that is clear from many scriptures. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:26) Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,10:37) The natural body verses the Spiritual body is different because the body is different that the spirit. The similarity is the natural body is not let by the spirit and the Spiritual body is.
Kerwin,There is no such thing as a “spiritual body”. There is no “BODY” that is “led by spirit”. A PERSON can either be led by spirit or not – but a BODY cannot.
In John 3, Jesus was teaching that we must actually CONSIST OF something other than flesh in order to see or enter the kingdom of God.
It is clear that you see it differently. That is your right.
Mike…….So what is the “IT”, that is sown in corruption and raised incorruptible, sown a natural “BODY” and raised a SPIRITUAL BODY, Paul was talking about then? If as you say “there is no spiritual body”. Why change scriptures to meet you personal dogmas ?Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 23 2014,02:40) Jamming……….why did Jesus say the farther was greater then he was , if he were a God, and why did Jesus ever say “for THOU (that means someone other then the person speaking) are the ONLY (that means there is no other) TRUE God (that means all others are false Gods) . Why did not Jesus say “WE” are the only true GOD'S. Instead of “THOU” are? All who portray Jesus as a God are not of the TRUTH, that is clear from many scriptures. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
gene,it does not say in john 17.3 that Christ is not the true God. we do know only one GOD THE FATHER and he is the true God but the son is like him. the son is called True God as well by john.
1 john 5.20 MSG
and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. This Jesus is both True God and Real Life. Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.the bible said there is one God the father and God the only son.
john said Christ (the Word) was God – john 1.1
paul said he is equal with God. they have the same essence.
thomas said you are my Lord and my God. (john 20.28)
—–
the father is greater than the son but it does not say he is not God. the father called his son God.heb 1.8
MSG
Hebrews 1:8
The Message (MSG)8-9 But he says to the Son,
You’re God, and on the throne for good;
HE CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH
Hebrews 1:10
The Message (MSG)10-12 And again to the Son,
You, Master, started it all, laid earth’s foundations,
then crafted the stars in the sky.
Earth and sky will wear out, but not you;Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2014,12:21) I can be “equal to” John the Baptist in “essence”, “nature”, “form”, or whatever word you want to use.
therefore, Christ is equal with God the father in essence. correct?Quote (jammin @ May 22 2014,19:49) Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2014,04:03) Quote (jammin @ May 21 2014,19:42) Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2014,06:58)
Jammin,You are imagining things or mishearing. Jesus did not see equality with God as plunder(spoils). Many English translation soften it though the more recent edition of the NIV seems to go even further.
the jews understood what christ said. you do not understand what christ said.
why tell did not consider equality with God if he is not equal with God? it does not make any sense.
paul is not lying and it is proven by the word of God.
John also tells us that the Word was God.you and your father are equal in essence. do you understand that>? the son is equal with the father in essence. that is what the bible wants to tell us.
Jammin,You are deriving your doctrine from the words of unbelievers and that is not wise. You claim these unbelievers knew what they were speaking of. You give no evidence which makes me think it is your imagination. I do not know for sure. The Jews today in some ways are more in line with Jesus' teachings than the Pharisees of that day appear to have been.
I do know and understand what Jesus told them. He told them that God was in him by the Spirit and Jesus was in God by the Spirit. He then told them he was the Son of God. None of these thing is confessing he is God.
Given the two, I will go by Jesus' words.
it is writtenPhilippians 2:6
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
apparently, mike and most of you do not believe this truth but if you read the context, it will tell us that your fairy doctrine is not the real doctrine.
paul said he is equal with God.
bible versions and commentaries agree to me
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
thought it no robbery to be equal with God; the Father; for if he was in the same form, nature, and essence, he must be equal to him, as he is; for he has the same perfections, as eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, and self-existence:
sorry boy
Jammin,The God's Word's translation is questionable as it is a thought by thought translation and the it is trinitarians whose thoughts on the meaning of the original languages are being translated. This criticism is known.
Quote However, sometimes in its goal of “closest natural equivalence,” the GOD'S WORD Translation strays a little too far from the literal meaning of the text, interpreting rather than translating. Trinitarians do indeed say that Jesus is equal to God in they believe he has the same exact qualities of God. Of course that is nonsense as Jesus was tempted just as we are and God cannot be tempted by evil. It seem they have trouble believing that he cannot be tempted by evil so the invent a way for him to be tempted as we are. That scheme is that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human at the same time an absurd claim.
Are you deluded because you choose to listen to human beings who do not use reason. You choose to believe what is not. I do not know if I can stick with the delirious accusation even though you are deceived and seeking to deceive.
Jammin,
Quote I DID NOT CLAIM THAT THE FATHER IS ALSO THE SON. So you have changed your doctrine and now claim Jesus is equal to the one God but is not the one God.
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