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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:13) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,07:39) 1. God is not LIMITED. 2. HE IS ALL POWERFUL,
3. HE IS ALMIGHTY,
4. HE IS ALL KNOWING,
5. THAT IS THE NATURE OF GOD.
1. Jesus IS limited.2. Jesus is NOT all powerful.
3. Jesus is NOT almighty.
4. Jesus is NOT all knowing.
5. Those things you listed have nothing to do with “nature”, jammin. They are distinct qualities that any particular PERSON can either have, or not have.
In reality, the NATURE of heavenly beings is “spirit”. They (God and Jesus included) have a spirit nature, while we on earth have a flesh nature.
But even if you want to insist that those things you listed are “nature”, then it should be clear to you that Jesus DOESN'T have the nature of “God” – because NONE of the things you listed apply to him.
HE IS LIMITED if you are referring to his human nature.he became like us. but it does not mean that he is not God.
he was existing in the form of God before he became human.
and gill said he is from eternity. therefore those commentaries which you posted did not support your fairy tale doctrine.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
but this phrase, “the form of God”, is to be understood of the nature and essence of God, and describes Christ as he was from all eternity;
you are not making any sense hahaha
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:19) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,07:48) Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”Does the fact that the fire is ETERNAL mean that fire has existed FROM eternity? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?
your example is non sense!
But it is called “ETERNAL fire”, right?So do you now understand that the word “eternal” does NOT necessarily mean “FROM eternity”? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?phil 2.6 refers to christ as being God. your not making any sense AGAIN. hahaha
Jammin,
Quote he was existing in the form of God before he became human. What an absurd doctrine you choose to believe in. First you state Jesus is the one and only God at the same time he is not the one and only God. Or do you instead claim your God is a human being? Either way it is absurd.
Why do you try to reason when you have chosen to discard reason in embracing that absurd doctrine. The only ones that hold to that doctrine are those who do not test it and those who have chosen abandon reason.
Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,20:03) Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2014,05:25)
Jammin,You seem set on claiming nature is a physical nature and I pointed out it can be a spiritual nature.
The nature of God and the nature of sin are in opposition.
A person who is God in nature does not do the things of the nature of sin and so does not see equality with God as a thing to be grasped but instead makes themselves nothing and takes on the nature of a servant.
you should read the context before making any conclusions. phil 2.6 refers to Christ as being God. his has the nature God. before he became human, he was existing in the form of God.2 pet 1.4 did not say that we were existing in the form of God before we became human.
you are not making any sense
Jammin,The context is having the same mind of Christ.
Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2014,03:12) Jammin, Quote he was existing in the form of God before he became human. What an absurd doctrine you choose to believe in. First you state Jesus is the one and only God at the same time he is not the one and only God. Or do you instead claim your God is a human being? Either way it is absurd.
Why do you try to reason when you have chosen to discard reason in embracing that absurd doctrine. The only ones that hold to that doctrine are those who do not test it and those who have chosen abandon reason.
it is not an absurd doctrine. it is written.phil 2.6 GNT
6He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain[ equal with God.7Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
and took the nature of a servant.
He became like a human being
and appeared in human likeness.HE IS GOD THE ONLY SON. i noticed that most of you like fairy tale doctrine. I GAVE you verse, you gave me stories.
i need to repeat this because your brains are not functioning well.it is really hard for you to accept the truth because you do not belong to the true church. true christians hear the word of God and they do obey it and preach it without any addition. no more no less.
Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2014,03:17) Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,20:03) Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2014,05:25)
Jammin,You seem set on claiming nature is a physical nature and I pointed out it can be a spiritual nature.
The nature of God and the nature of sin are in opposition.
A person who is God in nature does not do the things of the nature of sin and so does not see equality with God as a thing to be grasped but instead makes themselves nothing and takes on the nature of a servant.
you should read the context before making any conclusions. phil 2.6 refers to Christ as being God. his has the nature God. before he became human, he was existing in the form of God.2 pet 1.4 did not say that we were existing in the form of God before we became human.
you are not making any sense
Jammin,The context is having the same mind of Christ.
i will repeat what i said.phil 2.6 talks about Christ who being in the form of God, did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God. instead, he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. he became like us…
2pet 1.4 did not say that WE WERE existing in the form of God before we became human. therefore, phil 2.6 has nothing to do with 2 pet 1.4.
that is what you call an ABSURD DOCTRINE.
Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2014,21:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,05:43)
So, taken in context, and with the knowledge of Hebrew thought, and their use of the word “god” – it makes much more sense that they were accusing him of blasphemy by claiming to be a god, who was God's literal Son – sent down from heaven.
Mike,I look at it somewhat different but basing your doctrine on the words of unbelievers sounds foolish no matter what they said.
Agreed…… for the most part. Even Satan and his demons can tell the truth, when it suits them.But I get your point.
Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,08:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:30) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,08:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2014,10:47)
jammin, who does Gill think the word “God” refers to in Phil 2:6?1. Nature/species – like YOU think?
2. The Father God – like I think?
gill said the phrase form of God refers to nature or essence. therefore, your explanation is not supported by gill.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire BibleWho being in the form of God,…. The Father; being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.
Are you sure? Look again. I made it bigger for you, since you seem to have missed it the first few times I posted it.
i am very surelet me post what gill said
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
but this phrase, “the form of God”, is to be understood of the nature and essence of God, and describes Christ as he was from all eternity;
your biggest mistake was you did not read the whole thing. you are a big clown. hahaha
Gill's Exposition of the Entire BibleWho being in the form of God…. The Father; being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.
This form is to be understood, not of any shape or figure of him; for…he is nothing but nature and essence……….
Gill is saying that the GOD mentioned is THE FATHER. And his OPINION is that the word “form” doesn't refer to a shape or figure of THE FATHER, but to the nature and essence of THE FATHER.
So like I said SO MANY posts ago……..
For this discussion, it really doesn't matter if you insist that “morphe” means “nature/essence” – as long as you realize the word “God” refers to Jesus' own Father and God, Jehovah.
Gill agrees with me on that point, because Gill knows that the word “God” refers to THE FATHER.
Give it up, sunshine. You are embarrassing yourself.
Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,08:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:13) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,07:39) 1. God is not LIMITED. 2. HE IS ALL POWERFUL,
3. HE IS ALMIGHTY,
4. HE IS ALL KNOWING,
5. THAT IS THE NATURE OF GOD.
1. Jesus IS limited.2. Jesus is NOT all powerful.
3. Jesus is NOT almighty.
4. Jesus is NOT all knowing.
5. Those things you listed have nothing to do with “nature”, jammin. They are distinct qualities that any particular PERSON can either have, or not have.
In reality, the NATURE of heavenly beings is “spirit”. They (God and Jesus included) have a spirit nature, while we on earth have a flesh nature.
But even if you want to insist that those things you listed are “nature”, then it should be clear to you that Jesus DOESN'T have the nature of “God” – because NONE of the things you listed apply to him.
HE IS LIMITED if you are referring to his human nature.
So then Jesus WASN'T God on earth? Is that what you're saying? YES or NO?Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,08:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:19) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,07:48) Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”Does the fact that the fire is ETERNAL mean that fire has existed FROM eternity? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?
your example is non sense!
But it is called “ETERNAL fire”, right?So do you now understand that the word “eternal” does NOT necessarily mean “FROM eternity”? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?phil 2.6 refers to christ as being God. your not making any sense AGAIN. hahaha
And once again, you have embarrassed yourself. jammin, do you think the people who read these posts are idiots?
Do you really think the rest of us can't see that you are wrong, but too stubborn to admit it, and so you play games instead of manning up?
We see it very plainly, jammin.
Do yourself a favor: When you're proven wrong, just admit it and move on. That way, you won't make yourself look disingenuous when it comes to scriptural discussions.
For example, we ALL know from the actual words of Gill himself that he thought the “God” in Phil 2:6 was “the Father”. We can see his thoughts in black and white – as he himself wrote them down. You can see it too, but because you don't want to admit you were WRONG, you make yourself look like even more of an idiot by not just admitting what is plain for all of us to see.
And you also know that the “eternal fire” mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 25:41 hasn't been burning FROM eternity. But you are too stubborn to admit that the word “eternal” doesn't always mean “FROM eternity”. So instead, you make yourself look like even more of an idiot by playing games, when you should just say, “Yeah Mike, I see what you're saying.”
Stop embarrassing yourself, okay? Let's have a big boy discussion from now on, okay?
Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2014,10:12) What an absurd doctrine you choose to believe in. First you state Jesus is the one and only God at the same time he is not the one and only God. Or do you instead claim your God is a human being? Either way it is absurd. Why do you try to reason when you have chosen to discard reason in embracing that absurd doctrine. The only ones that hold to that doctrine are those who do not test it and those who have chosen abandon reason.
Amen!Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,10:50) phil 2.6 talks about Christ who being in the form of God, did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
So one of Jesus' options WAS to use FORCE to remain “equal to God”?Who would he have used that FORCE against, jammin? Himself, since he already WAS God according to you?
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote Does the fact that the fire is ETERNAL mean that fire has existed FROM eternity? YES or NO? Mike,
YES!
FIRE IS ETERNAL AS GOD IS! IT IS HIS PRIMORDIAL SUBSTANCE,! ALTHOUGH IT WAS NOT TANGIBLE YET!
LIGHT IS ALSO ETERNAL WITH GOD!
SO SPIRITUAL FIRE IS THE ORIGIN OF SPIRITUAL LIGHT
MANIFESTED IN THE TANGIBLE FIRE IN THE SUN!
GOD ESTABLISHED THE TANGIBLE FIRE WHEN HE COMMENCED OUR CREATION! HIMSELF, HIDDEN IN THE WORD OF HELL FIRE! THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH
GOD JUDGES AND PURIFIES SOULS!
THROUGH THE WORD BY FIRE
SO THE WORD WAS THE FIRST BORN OF THIS PARTICULAR CREATURE! BUT THE WORD WAS NOT AS SUCH CREATED. BUT ESTABLISHED, IT WAS THE CARRIER OF GOD! FROM THE VERY FIRST EVER BEGINNING! IN ORDER FOR GOD TO CREATE ALL THROUGH IT!
READ:
15And his feet like unto fine brass, as in a BURNING FURNACE. …………. And from his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword: and his face was as THE SUN SHINETH in his power.
Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire,…………..
Psalm 7 The earth shook and trembled: the foundations of the mountains were troubled and were moved, because HE was angry with them.
8There went up a smoke in HIS wrath: and a fire flamed from HIS face: coals were kindled by it.
Psalm 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us by fire, as silver is tried.
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a …
Hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”
Deuteronomy 9:3 Thou shalt know therefore this day that the Lord thy God himself will pass over before thee, a devouring and consuming fire, to destroy and extirpate and bring them to nothing before thy face quickly, as he hath spoken to thee.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
MIKE I MEAN:
FIRE IS ONE OF HIS PRIMORDIAL SUBSTANCE:
GOD IS A SPIRITUAL FIRE OF LOVE!
IT IS A SPIRITUAL STATE OF BURNING LOVE
Jammin.
You are playing with words.
Quote
HE IS GOD THE ONLY SON. i noticed that most of you like fairy tale doctrine. I GAVE you verse, you gave me stories.
i need to repeat this because your brains are not functioning well.What is this: He is God the only Son??
1.Is He God or is He the only Son?
2.Was God crucified or was it His Son?
3.Did God gave His Son, or Himself?
4.Did your God die, and was buried for three days?
5,Who did resurrect Him?If you say God did resurrect Himself; then He did not
really die. He was alive.
6.Then who was sacrificed? Then there was no sacrifice.Can you explain?
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2014,12:18) Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,10:50) phil 2.6 talks about Christ who being in the form of God, did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
So one of Jesus' options WAS to use FORCE to remain “equal to God”?Who would he have used that FORCE against, jammin? Himself, since he already WAS God according to you?
your father is HUMAN. are not you human?christ's father is God. he is God just like his father. dont you still understand?
he is THE ONLY SON. we became sons of God when we accepted God. but Christ is not like us. he is the only son. before anything else was, he was with God. the Word was with God and the Word was God. john 1.1
Quote (Wakeup @ May 08 2014,20:26) Jammin. You are playing with words.
Quote
HE IS GOD THE ONLY SON. i noticed that most of you like fairy tale doctrine. I GAVE you verse, you gave me stories.
i need to repeat this because your brains are not functioning well.What is this: He is God the only Son??
1.Is He God or is He the only Son?
2.Was God crucified or was it His Son?
3.Did God gave His Son, or Himself?
4.Did your God die, and was buried for three days?
5,Who did resurrect Him?If you say God did resurrect Himself; then He did not
really die. He was alive.
6.Then who was sacrificed? Then there was no sacrifice.Can you explain?
wakeup.
1. he is God. he is not God the father but God the only son.
2. not the father but the son
3. God the father gave his God who is also God by nature.
4. the HUMAN nature died but not the nature God.
5 God the father resurrected the human body of the son.
6. the son and not the father.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2014,11:58) Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,08:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:30) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,08:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2014,10:47)
jammin, who does Gill think the word “God” refers to in Phil 2:6?1. Nature/species – like YOU think?
2. The Father God – like I think?
gill said the phrase form of God refers to nature or essence. therefore, your explanation is not supported by gill.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire BibleWho being in the form of God,…. The Father; being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.
Are you sure? Look again. I made it bigger for you, since you seem to have missed it the first few times I posted it.
i am very surelet me post what gill said
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
but this phrase, “the form of God”, is to be understood of the nature and essence of God, and describes Christ as he was from all eternity;
your biggest mistake was you did not read the whole thing. you are a big clown. hahaha
Gill's Exposition of the Entire BibleWho being in the form of God…. The Father; being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.
This form is to be understood, not of any shape or figure of him; for…he is nothing but nature and essence……….
Gill is saying that the GOD mentioned is THE FATHER. And his OPINION is that the word “form” doesn't refer to a shape or figure of THE FATHER, but to the nature and essence of THE FATHER.
So like I said SO MANY posts ago……..
For this discussion, it really doesn't matter if you insist that “morphe” means “nature/essence” – as long as you realize the word “God” refers to Jesus' own Father and God, Jehovah.
Gill agrees with me on that point, because Gill knows that the word “God” refers to THE FATHER.
Give it up, sunshine. You are embarrassing yourself.
you said the phrase form of God does not refer to nature and you posted gill commentary. but the truth is… you dont understand what gill said. hahahagill said
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
but this phrase, “the form of God”, is to be understood of the nature and essence of God, and describes Christ as he was from all eternity;
poor mike. you reading skill is very poor. hahaha
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2014,12:14) Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,08:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2014,10:19) Quote (jammin @ May 06 2014,07:48) Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”Does the fact that the fire is ETERNAL mean that fire has existed FROM eternity? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?
your example is non sense!
But it is called “ETERNAL fire”, right?So do you now understand that the word “eternal” does NOT necessarily mean “FROM eternity”? YES or NO?
is fire God or created by God?phil 2.6 refers to christ as being God. your not making any sense AGAIN. hahaha
And once again, you have embarrassed yourself. jammin, do you think the people who read these posts are idiots?Do you really think the rest of us can't see that you are wrong, but too stubborn to admit it, and so you play games instead of manning up?
We see it very plainly, jammin.
Do yourself a favor: When you're proven wrong, just admit it and move on. That way, you won't make yourself look disingenuous when it comes to scriptural discussions.
For example, we ALL know from the actual words of Gill himself that he thought the “God” in Phil 2:6 was “the Father”. We can see his thoughts in black and white – as he himself wrote them down. You can see it too, but because you don't want to admit you were WRONG, you make yourself look like even more of an idiot by not just admitting what is plain for all of us to see.
And you also know that the “eternal fire” mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 25:41 hasn't been burning FROM eternity. But you are too stubborn to admit that the word “eternal” doesn't always mean “FROM eternity”. So instead, you make yourself look like even more of an idiot by playing games, when you should just say, “Yeah Mike, I see what you're saying.”
Stop embarrassing yourself, okay? Let's have a big boy discussion from now on, okay?
answer my question.
is the word fire God or created by God?Quote (jammin @ May 07 2014,22:45) Quote (kerwin @ May 08 2014,03:12) Jammin, Quote he was existing in the form of God before he became human. What an absurd doctrine you choose to believe in. First you state Jesus is the one and only God at the same time he is not the one and only God. Or do you instead claim your God is a human being? Either way it is absurd.
Why do you try to reason when you have chosen to discard reason in embracing that absurd doctrine. The only ones that hold to that doctrine are those who do not test it and those who have chosen abandon reason.
it is not an absurd doctrine. it is written.phil 2.6 GNT
6He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain[ equal with God.7Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
and took the nature of a servant.
He became like a human being
and appeared in human likeness.HE IS GOD THE ONLY SON. i noticed that most of you like fairy tale doctrine. I GAVE you verse, you gave me stories.
i need to repeat this because your brains are not functioning well.it is really hard for you to accept the truth because you do not belong to the true church. true christians hear the word of God and they do obey it and preach it without any addition. no more no less.
Jammin,The doctrine choose to embrace is internally inconsistent and those who embrace it try verbal tricks to disguise that inconsistency.
You are not a stupid person and so you know that no one is 100% of 1 kind and 100% of a whole different kind but never the less you choose to believe it because you were falsely taught that to not believe it is not believing in God. It your choice to embrace such and absurd claim but denying it is absurd just makes you look stupid and I do not believe you are.
Mike has a doctrine that can be taught by reason even though I have pointed out to him it is not based on the word of God.
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