JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:08)

Mike Haha hahaha. I told you to read the whole thing before posting here Gill said it is not to be supposed of him; or any accidental form, for there are no accidents in God, whatever is in God, is God; he is nothing but nature and essence, he is the , the Jehovah Ill repeat. He said. . . he is nothing but nature and essence, he is the , the Jehovah,

jammin,

Don't go deeper than you can touch, for you have not yet learned how to swim.

Just stick with the very first words Gill wrote, okay?

Remember that Gill said the “God” mentioned was “THE FATHER”. Remember that Gill SUPPORTED his understanding by pointing us to the scripture that says Jesus is the IMAGE of the invisible God (who is also THE FATHER).

It is abundantly clear that you don't understand these other words from the commentators……. so you really shouldn't be posting them as if you DO understand them.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:16)

Therefore it is very clear that the son and the father HAVE THE SAME FORM.

Agreed. Phil 2:6 teaches that Jesus had the same form as his own Father and God before he was made in the image of a human being. Once raised to heaven by his and our God, Jehovah, Jesus once again exists in that same form.

This is confirmed by Colossians 1:15……..

“The Son is the image of the invisible God……..”

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:24)

Mike I suggest you study greek.

And I suggest YOU study English. Then you'll have a better idea what those dictionaries and commentators are SAYING about the Greek words.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 28 2014,00:04)

Christ created the heavens and the earth. Only God can do that. He is truly God just like his father. Praise God!

jammin,

Don't you mean “Praise Gods!” ?    You say the Father is “God” and the Son is “God”, and that they are DIFFERENT persons.  In any sensible mind, that adds up to TWO Gods.

Anyway, I have a couple points to make:

1.  You didn't even TRY to answer Kerwin's question.  Please do so.

2.  Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

The God Peter and John prayed TO is the one who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.  Jesus is NOT the God they prayed TO, jammin.  Instead, Jesus is the holy servant OF that God they prayed TO.

What can we learn from this?

A.  Jesus is NOT the one who made all things.

B.  Since Jesus is clearly NOT the one who made “EVERYTHING” in heaven and on earth, then Jesus has no choice but to BE part of the “EVERYTHING” that was made BY that one.

Would you care to see some more scriptures that clearly distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things?

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:22)

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,15:41) Mike You dont understand again what barclay said. Hahahaha you are a moron. Ill post it again Morphe (Greek #3444) is the essential form which never alters………… Read Mark 16:12, jammin. Did Jesus appear to them in a DIFFERENT morphe?  YES. Was Jesus' “essential form” altered?  Or just his “outward appearance”? Which one?

the morphe is HUMANITY. do you understand what barclay said?

i told you to study greek. you are a great pretender hahaha.

you will never understand that because you have no knowledge about the greek language.

the essential form is still HUMANITY.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:44)

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,15:51) Mike hahaha you are really a moron.cant you see what matthew said??? Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary Notice the two natures of Christ; his Divine nature, and human nature Matthew will never say that if he is not referring to the human and divine nature of christ. The phil 2:6-7 refers to his nature God and human nature. He was existing in the form (nature) of God before he became Human ( nature of man). Matthew said Who being in the form of God, partaking the Divine nature, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of God, Joh 1:1, Did you see that?? Matthew believes christ is eternal but YOU DONT. HAHAHA. GOD IS ETERNAL AND THAT IS HIS NATURE. HE IS DIVINE jammin, 1.  I agree that Jesus existed in two different natures.  One was a spiritual divine nature, and the other was human flesh and blood nature. Some of us will also someday share in that spiritual divine nature too.  But that won't mean we'll BE God any more than sharing a divine nature means Jesus IS God. 2.  I believe that Jesus is indeed the eternal Son OF God.  Being “eternal” doesn't mean you are FROM ETERNITY.   Listen with your heart instead of with your comically flawed man-made doctrine: Romans 6:9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. See?  Jesus is NOW eternal.  He was the first fruits of MANY who will someday be eternal. Like I said, just stick to Gill's commentary.  These other ones seem to be above your intelligence level.

Jesus is eternal. that means he was not created just like your fairy tale doctrine said.

you said

MANY who will someday be eternal.

where is that>? what verse is that? hahaha

MAN is not eternal. we are created and that means we are not eternal. we have a beggining. Christ was not created. he CREATED the heavens and the earth. heb 1.10

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:54)

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:08) Mike Haha hahaha. I told you to read the whole thing before posting here Gill said it is not to be supposed of him; or any accidental form, for there are no accidents in God, whatever is in God, is God; he is nothing but nature and essence, he is the , the Jehovah Ill repeat. He said. . . he is nothing but nature and essence, he is the , the Jehovah, jammin, Don't go deeper than you can touch, for you have not yet learned how to swim. Just stick with the very first words Gill wrote, okay? Remember that Gill said the “God” mentioned was “THE FATHER”.  Remember that Gill SUPPORTED his understanding by pointing us to the scripture that says Jesus is the IMAGE of the invisible God  (who is also THE FATHER). It is abundantly clear that you don't understand these other words from the commentators……. so you really shouldn't be posting them as if you DO understand them.

Gill said God is nothing but nature and essence. do you believe that? you just cut and paste the short phrase of gill's commentary. you did not read the whole thing. that is a sign that you are a child of a demon. hahahha

if you will read the whole thing, it will tell us that Christ is God just like his father and you DONT agree to that. that is why you just picked what you want and pretend that you do understand what gill said. honestly, you dont. hahaha

gill said Christ is EQUAL TO THE FATHER. he is ETERNAL, OMNISCIENCE, OMNIPRESENCE, IMMUTABILITY ETC.
do you agree? of course not. hahaha

you dont understand what gill said. you are a moron mike. you should go back to grade school and study how to read properly

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:58)

Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:16) Therefore it is very clear that the son and the father HAVE THE SAME FORM. Agreed.

then the topic should be closed. check mate!

Christ is God just like his father. they have the same form, God.

good job mike. you are now enlightened

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,14:07)

Quote (jammin @ April 28 2014,00:04) Christ created the heavens and the earth. Only God can do that. He is truly God just like his father. Praise God! jammin, Don't you mean “Praise Gods!” ?    You say the Father is “God” and the Son is “God”, and that they are DIFFERENT persons.  In any sensible mind, that adds up to TWO Gods. Anyway, I have a couple points to make: 1.  You didn't even TRY to answer Kerwin's question.  Please do so. 2.  Acts 4 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” The God Peter and John prayed TO is the one who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.  Jesus is NOT the God they prayed TO, jammin.  Instead, Jesus is the holy servant OF that God they prayed TO. What can we learn from this? A.  Jesus is NOT the one who made all things. B.  Since Jesus is clearly NOT the one who made “EVERYTHING” in heaven and on earth, then Jesus has no choice but to BE part of the “EVERYTHING” that was made BY that one. Would you care to see some more scriptures that clearly distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things?

i am not counting the nature. yes there are two persons but ONE NATURE, God.

you study english and greek mike so that you will understand the meaning of those doctionaries and commentaries.

you really have to be serious about this. you will have failing grades if i am your teacher.

you and your father have the same nature, MAN. your nature is only ONE. do you understand?

how many times do i need to explain this to you?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,22:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:22) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,15:41) Mike You dont understand again what barclay said. Hahahaha you are a moron. Ill post it again Morphe (Greek #3444) is the essential form which never alters………… Read Mark 16:12, jammin. Did Jesus appear to them in a DIFFERENT morphe?  YES. Was Jesus' “essential form” altered?  Or just his “outward appearance”? Which one? the morphe is HUMANITY. do you understand what barclay said? i told you to study greek. you are a great pretender hahaha. you will never understand that because you have no knowledge about the greek language. the essential form is still HUMANITY.

Jammin,

You need to rethink what you just wrote as Jesus appeared to the two as a different human being. He still looked like the human he is.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,08:50)

Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2014,16:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2014,23:28) Quote (kerwin @ April 26 2014,21:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2014,02:43) The word “morphe” is often applied to the gods by the classic writers, denoting their appearance when they became visible to people…….. Mike, Any expert would tell you that Barnes has insignificant evidence to base his conclusion on as morph is only used two times in the exact same form in Scripture.   Yes Kerwin, That's why the scholars often find those same words in secular writings – to help them get the gist of what they truly meant in everyday Greek speech. Note how Barnes uses the “classic writers” for added evidence of how the word was used, and what it meant. Mike, I do not have access to those writings but I look at related words, as they are used in Scripture and yet  I do not see where the those words are restricted as he states. Try the use in Mark 16:12, Kerwin.  Is there any DOUBT that it means “outward appearance” in that verse? How about the secular classic writers use of the word?  He says they often used the word to denote the APPEARANCE of the gods – WHEN they became VISIBLE to human eyes. Do you have any reason to DOUBT that these writings exist? It seems you don't want to believe him based solely on the fact that you don't want to believe him.

Mike,

I looked at the word morphe and its directives and the definition is ” (outward expression) that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence.”

Now if they would only use fewer vague terms. I am not even sure substance and essence are synonyms.

Quote

form

[carmel]

mikeboll64,April wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Your posts are long, confusing, unscriptural

Mike,

AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, YOU ARE POSTING THREE TIMES LONGER POSTS THAN I AM CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT I WRITE IN BLOCK CAPITALS

YOU ARE CALLING MY POSTS UNSCRIPTURAL  BUT WHEN I POST SCRIPTURES YOU EITHER DO NOT ANSWER AT ALL, OR YOU SIMPLY SAY I DON'T BELIEVE

NOW TO FACTS:

YOU ASKED ME TO POST SCRIPTURE WHICH CONFIRMS THAT JESUS  IS FATHER TO MALE AND FEMALES!

NOW I LEFT IT FOR YOU TO PRODUCE JUST ONE SCRIPTURE WHICH CONFIRMS JESUS AS A PARTICULAR   FATHER

BUT YOU REFUSED! OF COURSE, AND HOW!

SO YOU DELIBERATELY OPTED NOT TO, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT ONCE YOU COMMIT YOURSELF AND POST ONE OUT OF MANY YOU WOULD IN THE SAME TIME NOT ONLY  CONTRADICT YOURSELF, BUT YOUR ARGUMENTS REGARDING THE FATHER OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS IN RELATION TO GOD THE FATHER  WOULD ALSO COLLAPSES!

FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT SPIRITUALLY, AND PRINCIPALLY THE FATHER COULD  ONLY BE THE FATHER OF SONS SINCE HE IS ONLY A SPIRIT!

THEREFORE OF ALL THE SPIRITS!

NOW TO PROVE I'M RIGHT:

Quote

I don't have time for nonsense. If YOU can CLEARLY and DIRECTLY show me why God the Father is ONLY the Father of male human beings, but Jesus is the “Father” of both male and female human beings, do it BRIEFLY. Nick and I have already posted scriptures that prove you wrong, but knock yourself out.

IF MY POSTS ARE NONSENSE, WHY DO YOU BOTHER THAT MUCH, THAT YOU STILL WANT MY VERSIONS

WHAT YOU AND NICK, POSTED DOES NOT DECLARE THAT THE FATHER EVER HAD OR HAS DAUGHTERS, BUT THAT HE EVENTUALLY WOULD SO!

SO POST ONE WHERE IT IS CLEAR THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE FATHER OF SONS AND DAUGHTERS!

FROM THE OTHER HAND:

JESUS CHRIST. IS THE MESSIAH OF BOTH SONS AND DAUGHTERS!

THEREFORE THE REDEMPTION FATHER! OK! THIS ONE JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT JESUS IS AUTOMATICALLY THE ONLY FATHER OF ALL! AND THROUGH HIS DEATH

 HE RECREATED ALL WHATEVER GOD THE FATHER CREATED

ANEW!

WHO REDEEMED HUMANITY? SINCE YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE FATHER WAS NOT ALSO

JESUS CHRIST BUT AS A HUMAN?

GOD THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT  COULD NEVER DIE!

AND THERE'S ONLY ONE SAVIOUR

AM I WRITING  NONSENSE MIKE ?

Quote

often have many insults directed at me.

COME ON MIKE, WHAT INSULTS?

YOU SIMPLY LOST YOUR ARGUMENT, AND ARE PLAYING THE PART OF THE INNOCENT!

TO CONCLUDE THE TRUTH WHO IS THE FATHER OF ALL,

READ MY UNSCRIPTURAL:

John17:2 As thou hast given him power

OVER ALL FLESH   THE FATHER OF ALL FLESH

IS THIS NONSENSE MIKE?

And HE MAY GIVE ETERNAL LIFE……………THE FATHER OF ETERNAL LIFE  IS THIS NONSENSE MIKE?

OK?

THE ABOVE CONFIRMS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS

THE ONLY TRUE GOD, spirit Father  AND JESUS CHRIST  flesh Father

WHOEVER WON'T SEE THIS TRUTH IS MORE THAN
A DARKNESS MINDED PERSON!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

mikeboll64,April wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Being “eternal” doesn't mean you are FROM ETERNITY.

MIke,

WHEN YOU REFLECT, SINCE ALL CREATURES SPIRIT WISE,  HAVE A SPECK OF GOD,WITHIN AS THEIR ESSENCE ALL CREATURES ARE FROM ETERNITY

AND SPIRITS ABIDE EITHER IN HEAVEN, ON EARTH, OR IN HELL!   FOR ETERNITY

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,10:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:22) Read Mark 16:12, jammin. Did Jesus appear to them in a DIFFERENT morphe?  YES. the morphe is HUMANITY.

Mark 16
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

jammin, if Jesus' morphe was “humanity” when he appeared to Mary, and his morphe was “humanity” when he later appeared to two of his disciples…….. then why does it say he appeared in a DIFFERENT morphe to the disciples?

You're not really thinking this out too well.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,10:50)

you said MANY who will someday be eternal. where is that>? what verse is that? hahaha

Here's just one of the many, jammin:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This verse sums up the entire NT.  Who did our ONE and ONLY God “give”, jammin?  Himself?  Or His Son?

You need to learn the difference between the two.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,10:53)

Gill said God is nothing but nature and essence. do you believe that? you just cut and paste the short phrase of gill's commentary.

That's right.  I cut and pasted the ONLY part that had to do with our discussion, jammin.

We weren't discussing who thinks Jesus is “God by nature”, and who doesn't.  We were discussing whether the word “God” in Phil 2:6 referred to a PERSON – or to a “nature/species”.

And the very first words out of Gill's mouth made it abundantly clear that he thinks the “God” mentioned in Phil 2:6 is “the Father”.

Why would I post more of his commentary, when all I needed for THIS DISCUSSION was right there in his first words?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,10:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:58) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2014,16:16) Therefore it is very clear that the son and the father HAVE THE SAME FORM. Agreed. then the topic should be closed. check mate! Christ is God just like his father. they have the same form, God. good job mike. you are now enlightened

jammin,

The fact that Jesus exists in the form OF God PROHIBITS him from actually BEING the God in whose form he exists.

If you say, “Gabriel exists in the form OF Michael”, you are, in the same breath, PROHIBITING Gabriel from actually BEING Michael.

If you say, “Mike exists in the form OF Kerwin”, you are PROHIBITING Mike from actually BEING Kerwin.

Likewise, if you say, “Mike and Kerwin have the same form“ – you are also PROHIBITING Mike from actually BEING Kerwin.

How often I pray for people like you, jammin.  I mean, you are so brainwashed by that comically flawed man-made doctrine that you don't even realize how nonsensical the statement I supersized above is.

Think it out, man.  The word “christ” refers to one who was anointed BY God.  There were many christs of God all throughout the Bible. Jesus is one of them.

So to believe the nonsensical statement you wrote, a person would have to first believe that God and a person He anointed are the same being.  Then, we would also have to believe that our ONE and ONLY Almighty God can be a son of HIMSELF.  

Again, just think it out.  You say our God is a combination of three persons (although you guys only ever mention TWO of them ).

And if that is the case, when you say Jesus is the “Son of God“, you really saying that Jesus is the Son of the THREE DIFFERENT PERSONS who make up your “God”.  

Anyway, you are blind to these things and so many more….. as are all Trinitarians. All the rest of us can do is roll our eyes and pray for you.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2014,11:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,14:07) 2.  Acts 4 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” The God Peter and John prayed TO is the one who made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.  Jesus is NOT the God they prayed TO, jammin.  Instead, Jesus is the holy servant OF that God they prayed TO. What can we learn from this? A.  Jesus is NOT the one who made all things. B.  Since Jesus is clearly NOT the one who made “EVERYTHING” in heaven and on earth, then Jesus has no choice but to BE part of the “EVERYTHING” that was made BY that one. Would you care to see some more scriptures that clearly distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things? you will have failing grades if i am your teacher.

Fortunately for me, you are NOT my teacher.

What do you have to say about the prayer I quoted? What do you say about point A and point B that I posted?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 29 2014,11:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,08:50) Try the use in Mark 16:12, Kerwin.  Is there any DOUBT that it means “outward appearance” in that verse? Mike, I looked at the word morphe and its directives and the definition is “(outward expression) that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence.”

Okay.

So in Mark 16:12, did Jesus appear to the two of them in a different “(outward expression) that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence”?

From the time Jesus left Mary, to the time he came to the two disciples on the road, had his “essential inner substance” gone through a change?

Or just his “outward appearance”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ April 29 2014,13:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2014,13:44) Being “eternal” doesn't mean you are FROM ETERNITY.   MIke, WHEN YOU REFLECT, SINCE ALL CREATURES SPIRIT WISE,  HAVE A SPECK OF GOD,WITHIN AS THEIR ESSENCE ALL CREATURES ARE FROM ETERNITY

Yep! If you want to look at it that way, then all of us are “from eternity”, and therefore there is nothing special about Jesus also being “from eternity” like we all are, right?

Charles, I'm not interested in the other post you made. I was happy to see you had directed your attentions to Kerwin – so I could get a break from you.

Let Kerwin have his turn for a while. Perhaps I'll muster the strength to wade through your nonsense again, after I've had a little rest from you.

In the meantime, I've asked you very simply which scripture says God Almighty doesn't have daughters, and “Father Jesus” does. I have yet to see that scripture – or an explanation of the two scriptures Nick and I posted – each of which say God Almighty has daughters.

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