- This topic has 25,924 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 8 hours ago by
.
- Posts
kerwin,
Revelation 19:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
i remember you told me before that john said in rev 19.13 that HE WILL BE CALLED the Word of God but i read all versions of the bible and no single version says that.
that only proves that you are a false teacher
Jammin,
I used the present tense. John's present tense was after Jesus' ascension to heaven at the earliest. You cannot make it apply earlier just because that is what certain humans taught you and what your want it to be.
If you choose to embrace any teaching that teaches in any way or form that God can be tempted by evil then you choose to embrace an anti-Christ doctrine.
Mike,
Quote There is no adding, Kerwin. The entire context of John 1 speaks about Jesus, and how he came to be on earth, dwelling among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son. So you admit the John 1 does not explicitly say anything about Jesus existing and having his name be the Word of God. Your claim is the context makes it clear that the passage is speaking if Jesus.
Your claim is based on the fact that words said about the word or the light also are said to apply to Jesus. You unsaid premise is that these can only be said about one thing. That premise is flawed as God's utterance was with God in the beginning of creation and has qualities of God. All things were that were created were created by it. In God's utterance is the life of men and that life is light.
Both Jesus and John the Baptist tells us Jesus is that light but neither state that he was that life before he was miraculous conception. Instead this all stated after John states the word became flesh and came to live among us.
That brings us to another unsaid premise of yours which is that since Jesus had certain qualities after he was conceived he must have had them before. In other words you and Jammin are using the conclusion as evidence the conclusion is true. It is flawed reasoning and the truth is not flawed reasoning.
jammin,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote do you believe that HUMAN nature has limitations? yes or no? Mike,
DO YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT JESUS IS A PARADOX ENTIRELY ?
SINCE OUR WORLD WAS CREATED IN BOTH GOOD AND EVIL,AND SO ON!
AND ALL WAS CREATED IN HIM, BY HIM, AND FOR HIM?
THEREFORE YOUR ARGUMENT IS FALSE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT ALTHOUGH JESUS AS MAN HAD LIMITATIONS, THROUGH THOSE LIMITATIONS THEMSELVES, HE ALSO WITHOUT LIMITATIONS!
EXAMPLE:
JESUS DIED HIS DEATH
BUT THE FACT THAT HE DIED HIS UNIQUE DEATH,
THROUGH DEATH ITSELF, HE RECREATED, AND GAVE LIFE TO THE ENTIRE CREATION, AND BECAME THE FATHER OF IT ETERNALLY!
SO THROUGH HIS GENUINE LIMITATIONS YOU MIKE ARE LIVING WITH THE HOPE THAT YOU WILL BECOME LIKE HIM:
GOD IF YOU BELIEVE IN THIS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Mike,
Quote is should help: John 1
14 The Word…. came from the Father, full of grace and truth.17 ……grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Hmmm…….. Grace and truth came from “the Word”? And grace and truth came from “Jesus Christ”? Interesting.
Let's choose to ignore that statement this statement is said about the word after it has become Jesus and has come to dwell among us.
The verse does not say that “grace and truth” both came from both the word and Jesus. It states the word is full of grace and truth and grace and truth come through Jesus Christ.
I tend to believe Jesus is the word from time to eternity so I am certainly interested in what revelations will resolve this mystery but God has not opened me to it yet.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 03 2014,20:52) Hi MB,
You USE scripture to try and bolster your weak dogmas
Really you ought to let it teach you
I use scripture to LEARN the TRUTH, Nick. But when I quote those very scriptures to show YOU that truth, you call me names, deride me, and run away from all those scriptures I've posted, and all those questions I've asked.Why is that?
Nick, the truth of the scriptures is that Jehovah did indeed call Jesus a god. Now, if Jehovah WASN'T calling Jesus a god in a derogatory “false god” sense, then in what sense WAS Jehovah calling Jesus a god?
When you are humble enough to answer that question with complete honesty, you'll also be on your way to letting the scriptures actually TEACH you.
So far, it is YOU who wants to teach the SCRIPTURES about how many gods there are – and whether or not Jesus is one of them. I'm suggesting you let the SCRIPTURES (not the doctrines of men) teach YOU instead.
Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2014,22:23) Mike, Quote The Greek says, “the name of him is called the Word of God”. It does not say he “is called by the name OF the Word of God” – like you've mistakenly written.
You are correct and perhaps there is a difference in the meaning I am not seeing right now.
Take off any man-made blinders you may be wearing, and look real hard, Kerwin. If you do that, you WILL see the difference in meaning.Quote (carmel @ April 04 2014,00:49) SINCE IT IS A MATERIAL CREATION WHICH OBVIOUS WAS OF THE ENEMIES OF GOD! THEREFORE ONLY THROUGH A MEDIATOR, GOD HIMSELF IN THE FUNCTION OF THE WORD COULD DO IT.
Again Charles,You are saying that “GOD” couldn't be DIRECTLY involved, so that same “GOD” changed His function and became His own mediator so that He could be directly involved.
Charles, a mediator is one who intervenes BETWEEN two or more parties. The mediator cannot BE one of the parties he is intervening BETWEEN.
If the Word mediates BETWEEN Mike Boll and Jehovah, then the Word can neither BE “Mike Boll”, nor “Jehovah”.
Do you understand that?
Quote (jammin @ April 04 2014,07:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 04 2014,11:52)
It seems like you're trying to tell me that someone was both “limited” AND “unlimited” at the same time.But surely that must be a misunderstanding on my part, because no sensible person would ever make such a claim, right?
1. do you believe christ became human? yes or no?2. do you believe that HUMAN nature has limitations? yes or no?
3. do you believe before Christ became human, he was in the form of God (not a god)? yes or no?
1. Yes.2. Yes.
3. Yes and no. Jesus was indeed a god who was existing in the form of his own God, Jehovah. He wasn't the Most High God in whose form he was existing.
You can't say a person was existing in THEIR OWN form, jammin. For example, you can't say, “King David was existing in the form of King David”. It would be a senseless and useless statement to make.
On the other hand, you CAN say, “jammin was existing in the form of King David” – because jammin and King David are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES.
So to say, “existing in the form OF“, you must be speaking about two different entities for it to make any sense.
So if Jesus was existing in the form OF God, then Jesus couldn't possibly have BEEN the very God in whose form he was existing. (Note that it doesn't say he was existing in the form of “the Father”, but in the form of “God”. So you can't even use any of your Trinitarian Jedi mind tricks on this one.)
Anyway, all of this is a diversion to the real point, jammin. You say that Jesus on earth was both human AND God, right? But that would mean Jesus was both limited AND unlimited at the same time. And that simply cannot be.
Your claim that Jesus had limitations while on earth was the correct and scriptural claim. And your claim that one who has limitations is not God was also correct.
Let's just stick with those correct things you stated, and leave all the Jedi mind tricks to the Star Wars fans, okay?
Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2014,13:02) Mike, Quote There is no adding, Kerwin. The entire context of John 1 speaks about Jesus, and how he came to be on earth, dwelling among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son. So you admit the John 1 does not explicitly say anything about Jesus existing and having his name be the Word of God. Your claim is the context makes it clear that the passage is speaking if Jesus.
Your claim is based on the fact that words said about the word or the light also are said to apply to Jesus. You unsaid premise is that these can only be said about one thing. That premise is flawed as God's utterance was with God in the beginning of creation and has qualities of God. All things were that were created were created by it. In God's utterance is the life of men and that life is light.
Both Jesus and John the Baptist tells us Jesus is that light but neither state that he was that life before he was miraculous conception. Instead this all stated after John states the word became flesh and came to live among us.
That brings us to another unsaid premise of yours which is that since Jesus had certain qualities after he was conceived he must have had them before. In other words you and Jammin are using the conclusion as evidence the conclusion is true. It is flawed reasoning and the truth is not flawed reasoning.
Kerwin,That entire speech of your is a whole bunch of DENIAL.
JESUS said he had glory alongside God before the world began.
JESUS said he came down from heaven, and that some of the disciples present would see him ascend to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. And then that actually happened.
JESUS is the one through whom all things, visible and invisible, whether in heaven or on earth, were created.
I notice you have chosen not to address a couple of the more obvious points I made in that last post. Nor did you include my post in your response so we could all see the points you skipped over without mention.
It is the 4th post on page 1219 – if you're ever interested in addressing the “harder” points.
Quote (kerwin @ April 05 2014,11:25) ……this statement is said about the word after it has become Jesus and has come to dwell among us.
You must have made a typo, Kerwin. Because as it is, your statement seems to say that the Word actually BECAME the human being known as Jesus.And since you fight so hard against that SCRIPTURAL teaching, I can only assume that you have mistyped something.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2014,12:17) Hi MB,
Jesus CHRIST said these things
Jesus the man, anointed by the eternal Spirit.
Yes Nick,Jesus the anointed one of God said that HE HIMSELF had glory alongside his God before the world began, and that HE HIMSELF came down from heaven to do the will of the one who sent him down from heaven.
Now, was it a HUMAN BEING that came down from heaven? Or was it a being who was existing in the form of God, BEFORE he was made in the likeness of a human being, that came down from heaven?
Hi MB,
Acts 10
38 [ab]You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, [ac]and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.Do you think the man Jesus did these things because he was really another god?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2014,05:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2014,12:17) Hi MB,
Jesus CHRIST said these things
Jesus the man, anointed by the eternal Spirit.
Yes Nick,Jesus the anointed one of God said that HE HIMSELF had glory alongside his God before the world began, and that HE HIMSELF came down from heaven to do the will of the one who sent him down from heaven.
Now, was it a HUMAN BEING that came down from heaven? Or was it a being who was existing in the form of God, BEFORE he was made in the likeness of a human being, that came down from heaven?
Mike B.You have not revealed to us who your Jesus really is.
Please explain to us.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2014,00:20) Quote (kerwin @ April 05 2014,11:25) ……this statement is said about the word after it has become Jesus and has come to dwell among us.
You must have made a typo, Kerwin. Because as it is, your statement seems to say that the Word actually BECAME the human being known as Jesus.And since you fight so hard against that SCRIPTURAL teaching, I can only assume that you have mistyped something.
Mike,No, I am using became to speak of the word after it has changed from the state of not being Jesus to being Jesus and in that state has come to dwell among us. It is like “he became tired” or “the water became calm”.
As we have discussed previously became or one of its directives can but does not always mean a complete change is qualities. It is up to each of us to choose the correct one based on the teachings of the Spirit.
Mike,
Quote JESUS said he had glory alongside God before the world began. JESUS said he came down from heaven, and that some of the disciples present would see him ascend to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. And then that actually happened.
JESUS is the one through whom all things, visible and invisible, whether in heaven or on earth, were created.
These are other passages and the conclusion you made in them may have led to your presumption when interpreting John's words in chapter 1.
Mike,
Quote I notice you have chosen not to address a couple of the more obvious points I made in that last post. Nor did you include my post in your response so we could all see the points you skipped over without mention. It is the 4th post on page 1219 – if you're ever interested in addressing the “harder” points.
I had thought addressed your points well enough with what I said but since you disagree could you enlighten me about those specific points in which I failed to do so?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
