JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
It is scripture.[john]
can you not grasp it?

Jn 14.10

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2014,01:02)

Hi T, It is scripture.[john] can you not grasp it? Jn 14.10

Nick

Jn 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

this seems to be said from Jesus while he was on earth ,

your previous quote was Jesus saying it to become true in the future after his ascend ,

so I think your opinion does not stick

[carmel]

kerwin,Mar. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

You are an example of one that chooses to interpret the statement God is God's love literally.

Kerwin,

That's not my view, I READ IT FROM A REVELATION ONLY FEW WEEKS AGO!

READ A SECTION OF IT:

You indeed, children of men, often will say, that GOD IS LOVE, as if you knew what LOVE is; yet I GOD THE LORD say unto you: you do not know, you have but a faint idea of MY being LOVE, ETERNAL LOVE.

25
Be not disappointed, at My saying this firmly to you, who think you know that I am LOVE, but you really do not know! I even say: “You cannot know as yet what LOVE ultimately is, nor can you know that I am that LOVE!”

26
You might then object by asking how I GOD THE LORD can give you COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE and say at the same time that you do not know what LOVE is.

27
The answer to the riddle becomes quite obvious, if I tell you that

28
LOVE is neither a capacity nor a concept nor anything else; LOVE is a state of being.

29
Even for ME, YOUR CREATOR, it is not so easy in this instance to explain to you in the language of your transient earthly limited human being what LOVE is by essence.

30
And as I have said already that LOVE is a state of being, it is therefore quite easy to understand that whoever is in this state of “LOVE” will be able to know what LOVE is; which means that one has to be and to live completely in this state of “Love” to grasp and to know what LOVE actually is; in other words, the heart is to overflow with LOVE, yea the entire soul is to be pervaded and filled with LOVE to seize LOVE!

31
Indeed, LOVE is in ME, GOD THE LORD AND CREATOR, the fundamental permanent state! LOVE IS MY ETERNAL UR-STATE OF BEING, LOVE IS MY SPIRIT – THE SPIRIT OE PERFECTION. LOVE is MY ALL-PERVADING POWER, MY ALMIGHTINESS.

32
Moreover, LOVE is at the same time MY HEART, MY SPIRITUAL HEART, MY FATHERLY HEART, from which only LOVE can pour out endlessly from eternity to eternity.

33
Therefore, all My Creation and all that I THE LORD do, is LOVE.

34
Therefore also you, O men, are Children of My Love. Out of LOVE have you been created and LOVE is your basic nature, and whatever surrounds you and whatever serves you for this life again is but LOVE.

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
I am not sure how you think your ideas hang together as they seem to have weak foundations

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2014,02:11)

Hi T, I am not sure how you think your ideas hang together as they seem to have weak foundations

Nick

opinion is not enough ; show me why with scriptures

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Let scripture show scripture

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2014,02:52)

Hi T, Let scripture show scripture

hi Nick

that is exactly what I ask you to do ,but you did not

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2014,21:54)

Hi wakeup, Did John see the Spirit of Truth? 1 Jn1

He touched the “Word of Life” with his own hands, Nick.

That is the third place in the scriptures where the same author refers to Jesus by his title “The Word”.

John couldn't have seen spirit anymore than he could have touched spirit.

Yet the Word of Life was both seen and touched by John.

That seems to go against your claim that “The Word” = “The Spirit”.

The majority of John 1 also goes against your claim, because “The Spirit” did not actually BECOME flesh and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten before being killed on a tree, and raised from the dead.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
And indeed from the Jordan Jesus was the Word.
He embodied and was in complete submission to the Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 04 2014,00:04)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,10:13) The thing is that all of those scriptural phrases are said about JESUS – not about “Lucifer” Mike, I TOLD YOU! YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM IS WEAK, AND IT WON'T LET YOU SEE THE TRUTH! YOU ARE ON MILK I'M AFRAID MIKE! Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,10:13) Says the guy who doesn't even have enough wisdom to spell “too weak” correctly!     (Just messin' with ya!) YOU SEE MIKE, YOU CONFIRMED THAT YOU ARE ONLY GOOD IN WORLDLY WISDOM! FROM THE OTHER HAND ALTHOUGH I AM ONLY GOOD IN GOD'S WISDOM, I WAS STILL ABLE TO MAKE YOU SEE WHAT I WROTE! WRONG IN WORLDLY WISDOM! Go behind me, Satan, because YOU ARE CONCERNED not on the things that are of God, but that are of men. ALSO MIKE, WITH EVERY RESPECTTHE FACT THAT YOU TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE SOME CARNAL USELESS PLEASURE IN SAYING THAT IT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE: FINISHED DOWN THE DRAIN! WITH YOUR ARGUMENTS! Peace and love in Jesus Charles

Okay, let me get this straight, Charles…………

First, you agree that phrases like “firstborn of every creature” and “beginning of the creation of God” DO indeed refer to the first being God ever created.

But when I point out to you that those things are said in scripture about JESUS – and not about “Lucifer” – you have no real reply.  Instead, you harp about my “worldly wisdom” – as if that is some kind of an ANSWER to address your flawed understanding that I pointed out to you.  Hmmm………….

Why not try to address the fact that those things are said about Jesus in scripture – and not about somebody you call “Lucifer”?  That would be a good start.

As for the misspelled words, I suggest that the next time you are going to call someone else unwise, you are wise enough to spell the accusation correctly.  You walked right into that one, dude.  (Besides, I went out of my way to say I was only joking.  We all misspell words occasionally.  I do it myself.  But if I called you a dumbass, then I'd look pretty silly if I didn't even spell “dumbass” correctly, right? So if you're going to call me stupid, then at least spell “stupid” correctly.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2014,17:14)

Hi MB, And indeed from the Jordan Jesus was the Word. He embodied and was in complete submission to the Spirit.

So Jesus WAS indeed “the Word”. But he merely “embodied” the Spirit?

That means he WAS the Word, but WASN'T actually the Spirit. How then can you claim that “The Word” and “The Spirit” are one and the same thing?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 04 2014,00:12)

mikeboll64,Mar. wrote: [/quote] Quote If I said the words, “I am”, the “I” part would refer to the entirety of me. Mike, OK! AND WHAT THAT INCORPORATES? Peace and love in Jesus Charles

I assume your asking what the word “I” would incorporate. And I already told you, “the entirety of me”, right?

What else are you asking?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 04 2014,03:24)

Some love football continuouesly;that is his spirit.

I loves me some football!

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2014,09:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2014,21:54) Hi wakeup, Did John see the Spirit of Truth? 1 Jn1 He touched the “Word of Life” with his own hands, Nick. That is the third place in the scriptures where the same author refers to Jesus by his title “The Word”. John couldn't have seen spirit anymore than he could have touched spirit. Yet the Word of Life was both seen and touched by John. That seems to go against your claim that “The Word” = “The Spirit”. The majority of John 1 also goes against your claim, because “The Spirit” did not actually BECOME flesh and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten before being killed on a tree, and raised from the dead.

Mike B.

The Word was in spirit *form*,and his spirit is truth.(Holy spirit).
God is in spirit form and His spirit is truth.

The Word was made flesh,and John saw him and touched Him.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 04 2014,08:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,09:59) …..the main thing I learned from Wallace is that John wrote 1:1 in a way that keeps us from identifying “the Word” with “God”. it is because you do not understand what wallace said. Christ is God phil 2.6 john 1.1 john 1.18 john 20.28 and many many more verses that give us proof about the deity of Christ.

Phil 2:6 tells us that Jesus was existing in the form OF God.  That eliminates him from BEING the God in whose form he was existing.

John 1:1 is written in a way that keeps us from identifying the Word with God.  I learned that from Mr. Wallace.  (Actually, Mr. Wallace just added some more scholarly support to something I have known for years.)

John 1:18 starts off by telling us that no one has seen “God” at any time.  So the very fact that the one who wrote those words had indeed seen “Jesus” many times prohibits us from thinking that John himself believed Jesus was the “God” no man had ever seen.

And in 20:28, Thomas addresses Jesus as “God” – the same way the writer of Psalm 45 addressed someone other than Jehovah as “O God”.  And just as the fact that the psalm goes on to talk about how the God OF this “O God” person set the “O God” person above his companions, the rest of the gospel of John also explains that Jesus is not the Most High God Himself – but the Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, and Priest OF that Most High God. So if you take the entire context into account, you'll be able to see that just being called “god” does NOT equate you with the Almighty God who created all things.

jammin, you can't base your entire Biblical beliefs on a couple of scriptures that have the word “theos” in them.  Even Satan is called “theos” in scripture, right?

The vast majority of scripture distinguishes Jesus as someone OTHER THAN “God” over and over again.  Start believing those scriptures as well, okay?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Quote it right.
Jesus CHRIST-the ANOINTED Jesus

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2014,11:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,04:47) Why don't you believe the Word literally became Jesus Christ?  Doesn't John 1:14 say the Word BECAME the one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?  And wasn't that only begotten Son Jesus Christ? Mike, Hebrews 11:3 New King James Version (NKJV) 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. The word that framed the worlds figuratively became Jesus just as the God is figuratively love.

You are switching them again, Kerwin.  Unless you can say that “love is figuratively the God”, your point misses the mark.

In your comparison, you must either say:

The word that framed the worlds figuratively became Jesus just as love is figuratively the God……..

Or………..

Jesus figuratively became the word that framed the worlds just as the God is figuratively love.

You can't mix and match, Kerwin.  Switch out the words “the word” with “righteousness”, or some other abstract quality.

You can't say, “Righteousness is Jesus as God is love”.  

You can say “Righteousness is Jesus as love is God”, or “Jesus is righteousness as God is love”…… but you can't mix and match abstracts and objects to make the comparison you're trying to make.

But anyway……… if God framed the worlds through the word that eventually became Jesus Christ, then we would be able to say that God created the universe through His Son Jesus Christ, right?

Because whatever the word was, you agree that this same entity actually BECAME the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ, right?

So therefore, if we equate “the Word” with “Jesus Christ”, we would equally be able to say, “God created all things through the Word” (John 1:3, Hebrews 11:3) and “God created all things through Jesus Christ” (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2), right?

For example, what if Gabriel was the first ruler of angels in heaven – a long time ago.  And then Gabriel was caused to become a human being named “Bill of Nazareth”.  Does the fact that Gabriel changed forms mean that “Bill” wasn't actually still “Gabriel”?  No.

So could someone later say that “Bill of Nazareth” used to rule the angels in heaven?  Yes, because “Bill of Nazareth” is the same being as “Gabriel” – who DID used to rule the angels in heaven.

Are you following this?  If God created through “The Word”, and the “The Word” actually BECAME a flesh being known as “Jesus of Nazareth”, then “Jesus of Nazareth” is STILL the being of “The Word”…….. even though he now has a different form/existence.

So we could say that God created all things through “Jesus of Nazareth” just as easily and honestly as we could say that God created all things through “The Word” – since they are really one and the same entity, only in different forms.

Now add what I've just explained to the fact that the scriptures DO say that God created all things through Jesus Christ just as easily and honestly as they say God created all things through the Word.

Then you will have the truth of the matter – without having to mismatch abstracts and objects in a very confusing matter.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 05 2014,01:42)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,09:49) The Word OF God is not “God Himself”.   Mike,   THE WORD  IS GOD IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION! SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR: FIRST IN THE BEGINNING: THE SON, THE WORD WAS IN THE FATHER'S BOSOM! AND GOD CREATED ALL THE HEAVENS THROUGH HIM! THEN: THE FATHER, FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME WAS IN THE SON, THE WORD AND GOD CREATED OUR WORLD THROUGH HIM! THEN: HE CREATED HIS OWN PERFECT MOTHER…………..

Charles,

I don't know which scriptures you're reading, but scripture has never taught me any of that stuff you posted.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2014,10:55)

Hi T, “My Father AND I will come to you..' Two in one Spirit to be joined to all in Christ eternally.

I'm not grasping it either, Pierre.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 05 2014,17:21)

The Word was made flesh, and John saw him and touched Him.

I agree with that part of your post, Wakeup.

[Author]

Posts