JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[carmel]

mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:

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If God appointed someone as an heir, then it is clear that this “heir” cannot possibly BE the God who appointed him AS an heir.  Again, this is simple common sense.

Mike,

THAT'S YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM!

MIKE WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF  I AM

WOULD  YOU BE REFERRING TO YOUR FLESH BODY?

WOULD YOU BE REFERRING TO YOUR SOUL?

OR WOULD YOU BE REFERRING TO BOTH YOUR FLESH BODY AND YOUR SOUL?

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[NickHassan]

Hi C,
Worldly wisdom you accuse others of
Mirror anyone?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2014,22:57)

Hi t, That 144,000 are of the Jewish tribes. A tiny remnant of God's chosen people.

hi Nick

agreed ,that is why it said that some of the gentiles are grafted ,right ???yes

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Rev 4.9f

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 02 2014,11:47)

Mike, TELL ME HOW THE FATHER IS ALSO THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN THE NT! Peace and love in Jesus Charles

Jesus addresses Him as “the only true God”.  I understand that as an emphatic statement, since the other gods (angels, etc.) are not “false gods”.  They are all real enough, Satan included.

But Jesus' words place the Father ABOVE all the other gods, Jesus included.

In the OT and NT alike, Jehovah is called “the Most High God”.  And nothing has changed.  Jehovah is still the Most High God, although there exist many less high gods that Jehovah is the God of. In the NT, Jesus is said to be the Son OF the Most High God – thereby eliminating Jesus from actually BEING the Most High God.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2014,03:07)

Hi T, Rev 4.9f

Nick

Rev 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,
Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
Rev 4:11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,

what is it you did not understand here

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 02 2014,13:14)

Mike, LET'S REFLECT: THE SON WAS IN THE FATHER! BEFORE CREATION! IN ORDER FOR GOD TO CREATE OUR WORLD, THE FATHER CHANGED HIS FUNCTION, AND ENTERED WITHIN THE SON!

I'll stop you right there, Charles……… because none of what you've said is taught in any scripture.

There is no need to read the rest of the post when the first few lines are already flawed.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 02 2014,13:32)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2014,04:15) ………then it is indeed HIS WORD that is metaphorically returning to Him Mike, THAT IS A REFERENCE TO THE WORD JESUS' SPIRIT, SINCE HE STATED THAT IT WOULD RETURN TO HIM! Peace and love in Jesus Charles

I don't believe the Word is “Jesus' Spirit”. But even so, my point was if something can be sent FROM God, and later come back TO God, then that thing cannot actually BE “God”.

God cannot send Himself, and have Himself come back to Himself.

So the word of God must be something OTHER THAN God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2014,13:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2014,21:23) ……the Word was something OTHER THAN “God”, right? Mike, Yes, I agree with you……… the word is not the God.

Well done.

[NickHassan]

Sorry T,
Should be rev 7.9f

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
God sends His Spirit.[ps]
He pours out His Spirit.[joel]

But His Spirit is never separate from Him.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2014,04:39)

Sorry T, Should be rev 7.9f

hi Nick

so are the great crowed in heaven or on earth ;

and what is it that the 144k can do but not the great crowed

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2014,13:44)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2014,21:32) …….the bottom line teaching of what you and your sources have written is that the Word who was with God in the beginning actually BECAME the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ. Do you agree with that? Mike, Yes, I agree that the word that was [with] God in the beginning became the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ.

Kerwin,

You're gonna need some shades pretty soon.  It seems that a lot of light is beginning to shine on you lately.  

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2014,13:44)

I am not saying the word literally became him which may be a point of confusion.

Oops.  I guess some of the fog yet remains after all.  

Okay Kerwin……… WHY?  Why don't you believe the Word literally became Jesus Christ?  Doesn't John 1:14 say the Word BECAME the one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?  And wasn't that only begotten Son Jesus Christ?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2014,16:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2014,02:42) There is no teaching that the Word came to be IN Jesus.   Hi Mike, actually there is: “To wit, that GOD was IN Christ,  reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;  and hath committed unto us THE WORD of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:1)

Hi Ed,

The Word OF God is not “God Himself”.

So not only is there no scripture that says “the Word” came to be IN Jesus, a scripture such as that, if it did exist, would still not contradict John's teaching that the Word actually BECAME Jesus.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2014,07:59)

we know that wallace said Christ is the Word in john 1.1 and you agreed but… did you read the latter part of wallace's statement? he said Christ is God. do you agree?

I agree with Wallace's conclusion that the Word is Jesus Christ.  But I didn't learn that from John 1:1.  It is the rest of the first chapter of John's gospel that teaches us who the Word that was with God in the beginning is.

And the main thing I learned from Wallace is that John wrote 1:1 in a way that keeps us from identifying “the Word” with “God”.  And the “God” in 1:1b is clearly the Most High God, Jehovah.

There is nothing in John 1:1 to make Wallace conclude that Jesus is also that Most High God.  And there are other scriptures in the NT that clearly identify Jesus as the Son, Servant, Priest, Prophet, Lamb, and Messiah OF the Most High God, Jehovah.

So no, jammin……… I don't agree with Wallace's conclusion that Jesus is also God – nor do I see any place in scripture that led him to that conclusion.

All I know is that his final conclusion actually contradicts the things he had already taught us about 1:1.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:45)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) wouldn't Lucifer be “the firstborn of every creature”? IN A PARTICULAR WAY HE WAS!  CAN YOU SEE IT?

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:45)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Wouldn't Lucifer be “the beginning of the creation of God” IN A PARTICULAR WAY YES, HE ALSO WAS!

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:45)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Wouldn't Lucifer be the one saying, “God created me as the first of His works”? YES AGAIN , IN A PARTICULAR WAY!

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:45)

LUCIFER WAS THE FIRST CREATED BEING! AND THROUGH HIM GOD CREATED ALL THE HEAVENS!

So you agree that those scriptural phrases DO refer to the first being God ever created, right?

The thing is that all of those scriptural phrases are said about JESUS – not about “Lucifer”.

So JESUS was the firstborn of every creature.  And JESUS was the beginning of the creation of God.  And JESUS is the one who was created as the first of God's works.  And JESUS is the one through whom God created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.

You have the correct understanding of those phrases, Charles.  It's just that you're attributing those phrases to the wrong person.

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:45)

Ooooo! WAIT A BIT I FORGOT, YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM WON'T LET YOU! IT IS TO WEEK TO DISCERN GOD'S WISDOM WITH

Says the guy who doesn't even have enough wisdom to spell “too weak” correctly!     (Just messin' with ya!)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2014,12:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2014,02:34) If God appointed someone as an heir, then it is clear that this “heir” cannot possibly BE the God who appointed him AS an heir.  Again, this is simple common sense. Mike, THAT'S YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM! MIKE WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF  I AM WOULD  YOU BE REFERRING TO YOUR FLESH BODY? WOULD YOU BE REFERRING TO YOUR SOUL? OR WOULD YOU BE REFERRING TO BOTH YOUR FLESH BODY AND YOUR SOUL? Peace and love in Jesus Charles

If I said the words, “I am”, the “I” part would refer to the entirety of me.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2014,16:42)

Hi MB, God sends His Spirit.[ps] He pours out His Spirit.[joel] But His Spirit is never separate from Him.

Agreed. That is why Jehovah's Spirit cannot “come back to Him” – because it was never separate from Him in the first place.

That is also why God cannot be WITH His Spirit at any time.

His Spirit is a part of His being.

This cannot be the case with either God's literal words, or the spokesman with the title “The Word of God”…… because these things are said to have been WITH God, and are said to have “come back to God”.

Agreed?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The WORD is OF and IN the Spirit of God.
The Spirit of the SON.

“My Father and I will come to you”

[mikeboll64]

Is “The Word” a part of the very being of God, like the Holy Spirit is?

Scripture says NO.

[Author]

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