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Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,08:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
SET UP FROM EVERLASTING,FROM THE BEGINNING.
In the beginning was the Word,and the Word Was with God.Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The Word was made flesh in BETHLEHEM.
He/Word, was from everlasting *IN* God,untill God spoke out.(the beginning of creation of the heavenly creatures).wakeup.
Wakeup,Proverbs 8 is about wisdom and kings rule by it. It is not a being they rule by. Wisdom is treated as a female because it is a female noun in Hebrew though not in English.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,20:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,08:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
SET UP FROM EVERLASTING,FROM THE BEGINNING.
In the beginning was the Word,and the Word Was with God.Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The Word was made flesh in BETHLEHEM.
He/Word, was from everlasting *IN* God,untill God spoke out.(the beginning of creation of the heavenly creatures).wakeup.
Wakeup,Proverbs 8 is about wisdom and kings rule by it. It is not a being they rule by. Wisdom is treated as a female because it is a female noun in Hebrew though not in English.
Kerwin.Is about wisdom indeed.
Wisdom is always *IN* the Word .
Wisdom can not stand alone without the person
possessing that wisdom.
Wisdom is a person's possesion.sample: love can not be without the person
displaying that love.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,16:21) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,20:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,08:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
Proverbs 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
SET UP FROM EVERLASTING,FROM THE BEGINNING.
In the beginning was the Word,and the Word Was with God.Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The Word was made flesh in BETHLEHEM.
He/Word, was from everlasting *IN* God,untill God spoke out.(the beginning of creation of the heavenly creatures).wakeup.
Wakeup,Proverbs 8 is about wisdom and kings rule by it. It is not a being they rule by. Wisdom is treated as a female because it is a female noun in Hebrew though not in English.
Kerwin.Is about wisdom indeed.
Wisdom is always *IN* the Word .
Wisdom can not stand alone without the person
possessing that wisdom.
Wisdom is a person's possesion.sample: love can not be without the person
displaying that love.wakeup.
Wakeup,I prefer “being” as God possesses wisdom.
Kerwin.
Dont just prefer.
Pray for it, and ask the Holy spirit to teach you.
Covet for treasures in heaven.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,17:12) Kerwin. Dont just prefer.
Pray for it, and ask the Holy spirit to teach you.
Covet for treasures in heaven.wakeup.
Wakeup,I am saying the beings posses wisdom is my preferred way of saying people posses wisdom as God is not a person and yet possesses wisdom.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,23:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,17:12) Kerwin. Dont just prefer.
Pray for it, and ask the Holy spirit to teach you.
Covet for treasures in heaven.wakeup.
Wakeup,I am saying the beings posses wisdom is my preferred way of saying people posses wisdom as God is not a person and yet possesses wisdom.
Kerwin.God is the source of all wisdom.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,19:41) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,23:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,17:12) Kerwin. Dont just prefer.
Pray for it, and ask the Holy spirit to teach you.
Covet for treasures in heaven.wakeup.
Wakeup,I am saying the beings posses wisdom is my preferred way of saying people posses wisdom as God is not a person and yet possesses wisdom.
Kerwin.God is the source of all wisdom.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Yes, but he also rules by it.
mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Now, if you want to list ONE scripture that has the word “wisdom” in it, I will tell you what it means in THAT PARTICULAR CONTEXT. Mike,
DO YOU KNOW WHAT GOD’S WISDOM IS? OBVIOUS IN RELATION TO SCRIPTURES!
GOD’S WISDOM HAS NO CONTEXT!
WISDOM IS WISDOM!
NOW YOU PICK A VERSE IN SCRIPTURE WHICH CONTAINS THE WORD WISDOM IN RELATION TO GOD!
OR ELSE ANSWER THIS
1Kings 4:29 And God gave to Solomon wisdom
NOW!
SOLOMON WAS NEVER BORN WITHOUT HIS OWN WISDOM! IN FACT IT
IS CLEAR ENOUGH THAT SOLOMON WAS A WISE MAN SINCE HE ASKED GOD TO GIVE HIM WISDOM!
BUT THE KIND OF WISDOM SOLOMON WANTED WAS EXTRAORDINARY THEREFORE NOT WORLDLY WISDOM BUT GOD’S, AND HIS WRITING IS A PROOF OF IT! EVEN JESUS MENTIONED SOLOMON’S WISDOM!
SO NOW ANSWER!
WHAT DID GOD GIVE SOLOMON?
A SHARE OF HIS ATTRIBUTE OF WISDOM?
OR
A SPIRIT OF WISDOM?
TO GIVE YOU A HINT:
I Corinthians 12:7 And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. 8To one indeed, by the Spirit, IS GIVEN THE WORD OF WISDOM: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; 9To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; 10To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches. 11But all these things one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Gene wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus was not the God that was in him. Gene,
With every respect, YOU ARE A BIT CONFUSED!
You didn’t reflect enough I’m afraid!
Also THERE’S NO ROOM OF OPINIONS WHEN DISCUSSING GOD’S WORK, you either be sure what you’re talking about or else say nothing! IMO!
NOW permit me to clarify things for you, and only scripture would contradict WHAT I AM COCNVINCED ABOUT
YOUR OPINION IS CLEAR, THAT JESUS WAS LIKE A ROBOT AND THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT WAS WITHIN THIS ROBOT, AS HIS ENERGY,AND WAS USING IT, SINCE YOU STATED SO.
WITH THIS FLAW ARGUMENT YOU DECLARED WHAT SATAN BELIEVED UP TO THAT MOMENT OF JESUS’ CRUCIFIXION, WHICH WAS, THAT ALMIGHTY GOD COULD NEVER ACHIEVE MANHOOD
WHILE IN THE SAME TIME HE REMAINED A SPIRIT BOTH IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH!
NOW! Reflect:
Jeremiah 32: 27 Behold I am the Lord( JESUS, )the GOD OF ALL FLESH: SHALL ANYTHING BE HARD FOR ME?
Yes Gene, the Father in the above scripture was referring to Jesus Christ, with the words:
shall anything be hard FOR ME!
since the Father owned only JESUS’ flesh body.
GOD IN FLESH FORM!
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT JESUS CONFIRMED THIS, READ:
John 17:2 As thou hast given him POWER OVER ALL FLESH, ………
OK GENE, JESUS IS THE ONLY GOD WHO POSSESS ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OVER HUMANS, OBVIOUS HE PURPOSELY DESTROYED HIS OWN BODY, THE ONLY BODY GOD EVER HAD
REFLECT MORE!
Jeremiah 32: 41And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good:
and I will plant them in this land in truth,WITH ALL MY WHOLE HEART, AND WITH ALL MY SOUL.
EXPLAIN THIS TO ME GENE:
HOW ON EARTH GOD THE FATHER A GENUINE UNIQUE SPIRIT, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF ELEMENT WHICH COULD ESTABLISH HIM AS A BEING, EXCEPT IN ALL THE CREATURES HE CREATED, COULD HAVE A SOUL, WHICH WAS CREATED ONLY FOR HUMANS, AND A HEART, OBVIOUS OF FLESH AND BLOOD, IF THEY ARE NOT JESUS’S, SINCE HE IS A SPIRIT BEING WHICH EVEN THE WORD BEINGIS NOT A PERFECT SUITABLE DECENT WORD IN OUR LANGUAGE FOR GOD, SINCE IT DOESN'T DISTINGUISH HIM FROM THE SPIRITUAL BEINGS HE CREATED,
YES GENE JESUS WAS THE GOD WHO WAS IN HIM, WHEN HE WALKED ON EARTH IN FLESH AND BLOOD
YES GENE JESUS IS GOD WHO IS IN ONE SAME GLORY WITH HIM!
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST TWO IN ONE BODY
Genesis 2: 24 …. and they shall be two in one flesh;
25 And they were both naked: to wit, Adam and his wife: and were not ashamed.
CAN YOU DISCERN THE ABOVE VERSES
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Gene wrote:[/quote]
Quote God and His word are one and the same thing. just as Jesus and his words are, Gene,
I LIKE THIS, IT’S PERFECT SO READ!
JESUS CONFIRMED:
I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE!
THEREFORE JESUS IS GOD MANIFESTED IN JESUS' FLESH BODY! NO?
HE ALSO CONFIRMED:
John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, SO HE HATH GIVEN THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF,
NOW NOTICE:
He said: THE FATHER! not my Father, to indicate complete independence as a being, so:
HE IS NOT REFERRING TO HIMSELF AS A SPIRIT BEING, BUT AS A FLESH AND BLOOD BEING! THAT'S WHY HE KEPT ON USING THE TERM THE SON IN THAT RESPECTIVE CHAPTER!
SO WHEN HE SAID THAT THE FATHER HAD GIVEN THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF
HE MEANT THAT ALTHOUGH JESUS WAS IN FLESH AND BLOOD HE HAS THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT JESUS CONFIRMED THIS WHEN HE SAID
John 17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. SO JESUS IS GLORIFIED IN THE SAME SPIRITUAL ATTRIBUTES OF THE FATHER, ALTHOUGH HE WAS A MAN THE ONLY ONE !
now read the following verse:
John5:27 And he hath given him power to do judgment, because HE IS THE SON OF MAN.
OK SO IT'S CLEAR JESUS AS MAN
WAS GOD THE FATHER IN THE LEAST DETAIL, ATTRIBUTES, AND POWER, BUT IN FLESH AND BLOOD BODY
THE FATHER IS GOD IN SPIRIT
SO JESUS WAS BOTH A FULLY DIVINE, AND FULLY HUMAN !
HE WAS THROUGHOUT DIVINE IN BOTH NATURES!
NOW READ:
John 5:25 and 5:28
25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live.
NOTICE :
JESUS CONFIRMED THAT:
IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME HE SPOKE NOW IS
THE DEAD THOSE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF HIM, SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE, AS SON OF GOD OBVIOUS SPIRIT WISE THROUGH HIS WORDS, AND THOSE WHO HEAR, OBVIOUS, BELIEVE IN JESUS,SINCE THAT MOMENT IN TIME,HUMANS WERE DEAD WITH SATAN’S SPIRIT WITHIN THEIR SOULS, WILL LIVE, THEREFORE THEY WILL EXPERIENCE THE LIFE OF THEIR SOUL, BOTH WHILE ON EARTH, AND ON THEIR SUPPOSE DEATH
THEN HE ASSERTED THEM AS WELL AND SAID:
28 Wonder not at this; SINCE HE WAS REFERRING TO HUMANS WHO WERE SUPPOSE TO BE ALIVE IN THE FLESH, for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves REFERRING TO THOSE SOULS IN HELL shall hear the voice of the Son of God.
NOTICE HE DIDN’T SAY AND NOW IS SINCE HE STILL HAD TO DIE!
SO THIS TIME HE WAS REFERRING TO HIMSELF AFTER HIS GLORIFICATION, OBVIOUS AGAIN SINCE HE WENT TO HELL AND PREACHED TO ALL THOSE SOULS THE GOSPEL WHOM THEIR BODIES WERE IN THE GRAVES !
SO GENE JESUS WAS NOT JUST A ROBOT !
BUT GOD IN FLESH
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel.
I agree with you.
Except the Word of God is his Living Word.
God brought forth His Word, and given Him a form like God's own image.
The Word is not God Himself,but something He owns.
The Holy Spirit is something He owns.
Wisdom is something He owns.It was the Word that was made flesh;not God himself.
God gave his only begotten Son to the world; not Himself.
The Word made flesh died on the cross;not God.wakeup
Gene wrote:[/quote]
Quote It was not Jesus who said destroy this “temple” and in three days I (GOD) shall raise it up That was God the Father speaking “directly” through the mouth of the “MAN” Jesus. IMO GENE,
HOW GOOD YOU ARE! SO JESUS WAS ONLY A ROBOT???
LET’S SEE!
John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, SO HE HATH GIVEN THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF,
From the above we are aware that Jesus AS MAN, had life in himself
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?
I will clarify it for you!
A ROBOT HAS NO LIFE IN ITSELF, IT IS LIFLESS, OK! IT NEEDS SOME KIND OF ENERGY TO FUNCTION!
SO Jesus confirmed that HE AS A HUMAN BEING, AS A FLESH BODY ONLY, ON HIS OWN, IS ALIVE, HE DOES NOT REQUIRE A LIFE SOURCE, FROM GOD, LIKE WE DOOBVIOUS HE WAS GOD, HE IS THE LIFE SOURCE ITSELF ! IT IS THROUGH HIM THAT ALL THE ENTIRE EXISTENCE FUNCTIONS! ALL IN HIM. ALL BY HIM AND ALL FOR HIM!
NOW TO YOUR USELESS FLAW POINT !
You said that Jesus didn’t raise himself from death in three days! But the Father raised him!
Jesus was referring to his flesh and blood body only, DOYOU KNOW THAT?
ACCORDING TO YOU, WHICH I DON’T AGREE, THE FATHER HAS NO FLESH BODY, JESUS HAD! SO YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF!
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS SPOKE AND REFERRED TO HIS BODY!
READ:
John 2:21 But he spoke of the temple of his body. WHO’S BODY WAS? JESUS’
SO CLEAR : JESUS SPOKE AND SAID THOSE WORDS AND REFERRED TO HIS BODY!
NOT THE FATHER SPOKE AND REFERRED TO JESUS’ BODY!
THEREFORE JOHN CONFIRMED THAT JESUS WAS GOD IN FLESH, SINCE HE HIMSELF RAISED HIS OWN BODY
JESUS CONFIRMED THIS WHEN HE SAID:
John 11:25 Jesus said to her: I am the RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE : he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live:
NOW REFLECT ON THESE SCRIPTURES, AND BE AWARE THAT JESUS IS NOT A ROBOT AS YOU STATED!
John 5: 17But Jesus answered them: My Father worketh until now; and I work. OK SO BOTH JESUS , AND THE FATHER WORKED!
JESUS WAS FULLY MAN, AND FULLY GOD!
John 5: 18 Hereupon therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he did not only break the sabbath, but also said God was his Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.
HE WAS NOT A ROBOT!
John 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life: SO THE SON ALSO GIVES LIFE TO WHOM HE WILL. NOT TO WHOM THE FATHER WILL!
22For neither doth the Father judge any man, BUT HAD GIVEN ALL JUDGEMENT TO THE SON.
23That all men may HONOUR THE SON , AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER.
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,20:05) Mike b. Quote
4. Jesus is in fact the firstborn of every creature and the beginning of the creation by God. (Col 1:15, Rev 3:14) He was created as the first of God's works, and his origins are from ancient times, days of old. (Prov 8:22, Micah 5:2)5. Jesus was never said to have “created” anything at all. The truth of the scriptures is that God created all things THROUGH Jesus. Having things created THROUGH you does not make you “God the Creator”.
4. Col1:15.18. Is all about JESUS.*NOT THE WORD*.
The difference between the two is that:
The word was *BEFORE* He was made flesh.
Jesus is *AFTER* He was made flesh.
The Word was not created;but was with God from
everlasting;UNTILL God spoke out,His Word.
WHEN THE CREATION IN HEAVEN(angels)STARTED;In
the beginning WAS THE WORD.5. For *BY HIM* are all things made,things seen and unseen.
And *FOR HIM*. So that God can be glorified *THROUGH
HIM*. ALL things are framed *BY THE WORD OF GOD*.
And Jesus is that Word. And He will come back not
as Jesus; but as THE WORD OF GOD.wakeup.
Wakeup,4. The FLESH being Jesus was NOT “the beginning of the creation by God”. Nor was he “the firstborn of every creature”. So these words must be referring to the PRE-flesh Jesus.
5. God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created ALL THINGS, Wakeup. The fact that God chose to create those things THROUGH Jesus does not make Jesus “the Creator” – or even a “co-creator”.
From Tertullian: He who creates is ONE, and he THROUGH WHOM the thing is created is ANOTHER.
Can you understand those green words, Wakeup? Can you find fault in them? Are they not supported by the FACT that God also chose to create you THROUGH your parents, but your parents are neither “the Creator” nor “co-creators with God”?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2014,21:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2014,00:25) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2014,15:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,00:41) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,21:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:31) The follow up question is about Revelation 19:13. In that verse, does the phrase “the Word of God” still just refer to an unnamed thing that is poetically being personified as a living being? Or does that phrase refer to an actual living person?
Mike,Yes it does but then it states a person is called by the same name as it why means.
You are wrong on that one, Kerwin. The Word of God in Revelation 19:13 is a specific person. He is the same person who is also called the Lord of lords and King of kings.The Lord of lords and King of kings is not a “thing” that is merely being personified. He is a real living person.
Mike,Do you see the phrase “called by the name of the word of God” being equivalent to “bearing the title of the word of God”?
Absolutely Kerwin…….. why not?
We could also say that Kal Hatze, the word of the King of Abyssinia, has as one of his NAMES, “The Word of the King”.
We could also say that Barak Obama has as one of his NAMES, “Mr. President”.
Agreed?
Mike,I believe name is synonymous with title but some like wakeup seems to disagree.
But this isn't about Wakeup, Kerwin.This is about the one with the name “The Word of God” being a real live PERSON in Revelation 19:13. Do you agree that the title/name refers to a real live PERSON in that verse?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,20:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
The correct translation is “CREATED”, Wakeup.Compare the following verses:
Proverbs 8 KJV
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
These verses tell us of a TIME when this “wisdom” began to exist. And the TIME this happened was long ago – before there were fountains of water and mountains. But there was still a TIME when he was indeed “brought forth”.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,20:18) Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Again, you are using a flawed translation.The literal Hebrew phrase is, “from the past, from the days of antiquity”.
From NETNotes:
Elsewhere both phrases refer to the early periods in the history of the world or of the nation of Israel. For מִקֶּדֶם (miqqedem, “from the past”) see Neh 12:46; Pss 74:12; 77:11; Isa 45:21; 46:10.
For מִימֵי עוֹלָם (mimey ’olam, “from the days of antiquity”) see Isa 63:9, 11; Amos 9:11; Mic 7:14; Mal 3:4.
Read those above scriptures in the KJV, Wakeup. The KJV translates the same Hebrew words as “ancient times” and “days of old” in ALL of them.
So why do you suppose they translate it as “from everlasting” in Micah 5:2? This is just another one of the Trinitarian BIASES showing up in the KJV. They KNOW that verse is about Jesus, and they don't WANT people to believe Jesus had a beginning. So they translate those same Hebrew words as “ancient times” and “days of old” almost everywhere else in their Bible, but as “from everlasting” in Micah 5:2.
Are you able to SEE this bias? Or are you blinded by your love for the KJV?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,03:57) Wakeup, Proverbs 8 is about wisdom and kings rule by it. It is not a being they rule by. Wisdom is treated as a female because it is a female noun in Hebrew though not in English.
Kerwin,1 Corinthians 1:24
……Christ…… the wisdom of God.Who is the living PERSON that is called “wisdom” in the above verse? The answer is “JESUS”.
1 Kings 4:29
God gave Solomon wisdom and very great insight……..And who is called “wisdom” in the above verse? The answer is “NOBODY”, because this verse speaks of LITERAL wisdom.
So is it possible that sometimes the word “wisdom” refers to LITERAL wisdom – and other times it refers metaphorically to a specific PERSON? YES, as you've just seen by the scriptures I posted.
I just read Psalm 16 today in my daily Bible reading. Do you know that both Peter and Paul attribute ONLY verses 8-11 of that psalm to Jesus?
Do you know that there are MANY OT passages that aren't ENTIRELY Messianic prophecies, but PARTS of those passages ARE?
So is it possible that ONLY verses 22-31 of Proverbs 8 refer metaphorically to Jesus as “the wisdom of God”?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,04:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 22 2014,16:21)
Wisdom can not stand alone without the person
possessing that wisdom.wakeup.
Wakeup,I prefer “being” as God possesses wisdom.
Kerwin,Don't you know that Jehovah is a person?
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