JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 19 2013,06:54)

K Quote T,   As far as I know Israel was the first. Adam and Eve were the first humans. I do not yet see how this answers my question. MAY BE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION ;FRUITS ARE THE RESULTS OF WORK ,ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES AND BEING FIRST FRUITS MEANS THAT THEIR IS MORE THAN ONE HARVEST

T,

This is the passage I was speaking of.

James 1:18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

[kerwin]

T,

also this one.

Romans 8:18-25
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,09:05) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2013,12:52) Kerwin According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree? Jammin, I agree that the new earth and the new heaven were created by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself to save us from our sins. Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC?

Jammin,
Yes, It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,16:45)

Gene Make your own bible and change heb 1:10 lol

Jammin……..It's not my fault you refuse to believe what Jesus himself say now is it?. I simply quoted you his own words
but you refuse to believe them Just as you refuse to believe these words of His for thou are the “ONLY” TRUE GOD and this scripture also we know that there is no idol in the world and that there is “NO” GOD but “ONE”

It appears to me you and people who believe as you do, like the Trinitarians and Preexistence's here are the ones, trying to write your own bibles, if you ask me.  It is you, whose going against the words of God, by preaching that there are other God's. But all true believers and Jesus, Knows that there is “ONLY ONE” TRUE GOD and it is Not Jesus according to Jesus that is.Those are His words not My, you just simply do not believe Him, nor what he says if you ask me.

So whose writing their own bibles? Take my advice i gave you , and you will begin to do this,     come out of her my people that you receive not of her plagues  The Her there is the false Churches of this world, which have caused all the confusion about the Kingdom of God and the Word of God, and Jesus' words also. IMO

If you need me to i can given the scriptures that say exactly what i quoted you. But the question is will you believe them?

peace and love………………gene

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,17:22)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,09:05) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2013,12:52) Kerwin According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree? Jammin, I agree that the new earth and the new heaven were created by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself to save us from our sins. Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC? Jammin, Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true.

you are totally blind. how do you read english bible? are you an english man? i think you are having a hard time understanding the english language.

let me post the heb 1.10
Hebrews 1:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

the bible did not say in heb 1.10 new earth and new heaven.

here we can see that kerwin is really a false teacher. he is adding words to the bible.

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2013,01:45)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,16:45) Gene Make your own bible and change heb 1:10 lol Jammin……..It's not my fault you refuse to believe what Jesus himself say now is it?. I simply quoted you his own words but you refuse to believe them Just as you refuse to believe these words of His for thou are the “ONLY” TRUE GOD and this scripture also we know that there is no idol in the world and that there is “NO” GOD but “ONE” It appears to me you and people who believe as you do, like the Trinitarians and Preexistence's here are the ones, trying to write your own bibles, if you ask me.  It is you, whose going against the words of God, by preaching that there are other God's. But all true believers and Jesus, Knows that there is “ONLY ONE” TRUE GOD and it is Not Jesus according to Jesus that is.Those are His words not My, you just simply do not believe Him, nor what he says if you ask me. So whose writing their own bibles? Take my advice i gave you , and you will begin to do this,     come out of her my people that you receive not of her plagues  The Her there is the false Churches of this world, which have caused all the confusion about the Kingdom of God and the Word of God, and Jesus' words also. IMO If you need me to i can given the scriptures that say exactly what i quoted you. But the question is will you believe them? peace and love………………gene

im asking about heb 1.10
what are you talking about?? that is a different topic.

first you have to know that this thread is about john 1.1

in john 1.1 christ was called GOD. he was the WORD said by john.
he is the Word of GOD REV 19.13 and according to john in verse 14, he became human.

in heb 1.10 Chrst made the heavens.
you dont believe what the bible said. you are just repeating what christ said in john 17.3 but you really dont know the meaning of that verse. so pls stop repeating that verse if you dont know the context. we can discuss that in other thread, but here you must focus in john 1.1.

do you understand?

john 1.1 said Christ was GOD.

heb 1.10 proves that bec the verse tells us that he made the heavens unless you dont want to accept that truth. what you can do is you make your own bible and change the meaning of heb 1.10 LOL

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,22:08)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,17:22) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,09:05) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2013,12:52) Kerwin According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree? Jammin, I agree that the new earth and the new heaven were created by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself to save us from our sins. Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC? Jammin, Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true. you are totally blind. how do you read english bible? are you an english man? i think you are having a hard time understanding the english language. let me post the heb 1.10 Hebrews 1:10 New International Version (NIV) 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,    and the heavens are the work of your hands. the bible did not say in heb 1.10 new earth and new heaven. here we can see that kerwin is really a false teacher. he is adding words to the bible.

Jammin,

It does not have to say “new” as the reader is supposed to be led by the Spirit to know that God cannot be tempted by evil as Jesus was. Once the Spirit has taught you that fact then you know it is not speaking of the old creation. Once you understand that you only have the new creation left and other Scripture make it plain the it was created by the Son.

God hides the truth from those not taught by the Spirit and reveals it to those taught by the Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,20:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,07:46) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,18:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,05:14) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14) It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus. Mike, Your question shows you lack understanding of the full accomplishments of Jesus' sacrifice.  You say you have read them many times and yet you don't understand that Jesus' sacrifice released creation from its bondage to corruption.   Romans 8:18-25 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Okay.  I read the passage you quoted. Now show me the scriptures that actually SAY what you've claimed to me and to jammin. Mike, I already did and you failed to understand it.

So then there AREN'T really any scriptures that say what you claim they say? And since you KNOW there aren't any, you will “win” this debate by saying I don't understand?

Good one, Kerwin.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,00:22)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44) Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC? Jammin, Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true.

Psalm 102:25 King Kerwin Version
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the NEW earth, and the NEW heavens are the work of your hands.

He must be right, jammin. There's that word “NEW” right there in the psalm that Paul was quoting in Hebrews 1:10!

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2013,06:43)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,20:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,07:46) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,18:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,05:14) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14) It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus. Mike, Your question shows you lack understanding of the full accomplishments of Jesus' sacrifice.  You say you have read them many times and yet you don't understand that Jesus' sacrifice released creation from its bondage to corruption.   Romans 8:18-25 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Okay.  I read the passage you quoted. Now show me the scriptures that actually SAY what you've claimed to me and to jammin. Mike, I already did and you failed to understand it. So then there AREN'T really any scriptures that say what you claim they say?  And since you KNOW there aren't any, you will “win” this debate by saying I don't understand?   Good one, Kerwin.

Mike,

I could waste pointing out what you do not want to believe but what is written anyways but I did not feel like it at the time, Perhaps at another time.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2013,06:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,00:22) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44) Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC? Jammin, Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true. Psalm 102:25  King Kerwin Version In the beginning you laid the foundations of the NEW earth, and the NEW heavens are the work of your hands. He must be right, jammin.  There's that word “NEW” right there in the psalm that Paul was quoting in Hebrews 1:10!

Mike,

I already pointed out to you that Psalms is speaking of Jehovah and the old creation.  The writer just used it for Jesus because it is true of him.  He does that with Hebrews 1:6 as well.  That passage is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:43 of the Masoretic and the Septuagint version from the Dead Sea Scrolls according to the NIV.  

Deuteronomy 32:43
New International Version (NIV)

43 Rejoice, you nations, with his people,[a]
   for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
   and make atonement for his land and people.
Footnotes:

   Deuteronomy 32:43 Or Make his people rejoice, you nations
   Deuteronomy 32:43 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) people, / and let all the angels worship him, /

It sounds like in its original place it is talking about God's people being “worshiped” by angels.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,12:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 19 2013,06:54) K Quote T,   As far as I know Israel was the first. Adam and Eve were the first humans. I do not yet see how this answers my question. MAY BE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION ;FRUITS ARE THE RESULTS OF WORK ,ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES AND BEING FIRST FRUITS MEANS THAT THEIR IS MORE THAN ONE HARVEST T, This is the passage I was speaking of. James 1:18 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

k

Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created

what i can see is that Paul mention that through the WORD OF TRUTH,the call trough Christ had begone and that the first that were called were called for an heavenly position ,and so were a KIND of first fruits from the first harvest ,Christ talks about two calls of sheep,

Ro 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
Ro 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Ro 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Ro 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Ro 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Ro 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Ro 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
Ro 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Ro 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
Ro 8:27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will

Paul talks about the final accomplishment when all will be in God and of God and God in all ,but in the mean time we have to cope with our time ,and so as they where standing in the first hour in the works of Christ they so are the first fruits of the kingdom that have been harvest through the preaching of Christ gospel,but this was the first hour now we are close to the 11 hour the end of the day,and we all still groan for Christ coming,

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2013,11:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,00:22) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 19 2013,11:44) Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC? Jammin, Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true. Psalm 102:25  King Kerwin Version In the beginning you laid the foundations of the NEW earth, and the NEW heavens are the work of your hands. He must be right, jammin.  There's that word “NEW” right there in the psalm that Paul was quoting in Hebrews 1:10!

hahaha. i agree mike.
it is a king kerwin version LOL

[jammin]

kerwin,

im sorry but what you are saying is non sense. it is easy to recognize a false teacher like you. false teachers like you preached WHAT IS NOT written in the bible. LOL

[GeneBalthrop]

To all………..John 1:1 In the beginning, the word was with God and the word was God

simply meaning just as written …> In the beginning , the word (intelligent utterance) was with God and the word (intelligent utterance ) was God. Meaning God and His word are one and the same thing Just as our word and us are the same thing.

Now along comes, Jammins and Mikes and all trinitarians and Preexistence's complex transliterations……..> In the beginning was the word (Jesus ) with God, and the word (Jesus) was (a) God.

Now, poor old John was so stupid he didn't know he should have written the word Jesus there  (a Person) instead of Just “word” (intelligent utterance), So along comes  Jammin, and Mike, and other Trinitarians and Preexistence's and Just straighten out  poor old stupid John's writings,  to read as they say it should., they change the text to read as He should have written it. Does it bother them to do that , well no because there churches say it OK to alter text if it fit “their” false teachings. Jammin, and you have the nerve to say “we change scripture” to meet our views. Thats a Joke at best if you ask me.

peace and love………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2013,22:00)

To all………..John 1:1 In the beginning, the word was with God and the word was God simply meaning just as written …> In the beginning , the word (intelligent utterance) was with God and the word (intelligent utterance ) was God. Meaning God and His word are one and the same thing Just as our word and us are the same thing. Now along comes, Jammins and Mikes and all trinitarians and Preexistence's complex transliterations……..> In the beginning was the word (Jesus ) with God, and the word (Jesus) was (a) God. Now, poor old John was so stupid he didn't know he should have written the word Jesus there  (a Person) instead of Just “word” (intelligent utterance), So along comes  Jammin, and Mike, and other Trinitarians and Preexistence's and Just straighten out  poor old stupid John's writings,  to read as they say it should., they change the text to read as He should have written it. Does it bother them to do that , well no because there churches say it OK to alter text if it fit “their” false teachings. Jammin, and you have the nerve to say “we change scripture” to meet our views. Thats a Joke at best if you ask me. peace and love………………………………….gene

gene

Quote

simply meaning just as written

you are not so supporting of the scriptures when it says ;

DT 10:17 “ For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.
PS 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
DA 2:47 The king answered Daniel and said, “Surely your God is a God of gods and a Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, since you have been able to reveal this mystery.”
DA 11:36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

GOD OF GODS ;; AND SO WHO ARE THE GODS THAT GOD JEHOVAH IS GOD OVER ?

I PRESENTED YOU WITH 4 SCRIPTURES THAT SAYS :GOD OF GODS “

YOU PRESENTED ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE AND IT SHOULD BE TRUE AND RIGHT ,NO NEED TO INVESTIGATE

BUT AS FOR :HE HIS THE GOD OF GODS YOU JUST CANNOT SWALLOW IT RIGHT FUNNY

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 20 2013,17:27)

kerwin, im sorry but what you are saying is non sense. it is easy to recognize a false teacher like you. false teachers like you preached WHAT IS NOT written in the bible. LOL

Jammin,

It is written that God cannot be tempted by evil and you are claiming he was for it is also written that Jesus was tempted even as is common to man. It is therefore you that teach nonsense.

On the other hand the earth was subjected to frustration by one man and it was freed from temptation by one man. Adam is the man that subjected it to frustration by his choice to sin and Jesus delivered it from frustration by his choice of righteousness. In this way the new creating was created by him.

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created

I am not sure if this is speaking of the first in sequence or the best of creation. Originally I was thinking it meant first and sequence because of what I remembered of it and the words Paul wrote in the following.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,22:01)

Mike, I already pointed out to you that Psalms is speaking of Jehovah and the old creation.

So is Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2.

You know how I know?  Because the God-inspired writer of these scriptures DIDN'T include the word “NEW” before the words “things” and “ages”.

Kerwin, you have tricked yourself into believing the new heavens and new earth are already created………. all because you don't WANT to believe all things were created through Jesus.

2 Peter 3:13
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

You say that Jesus being sacrificed is what began this new heaven and new earth.  But Peter wrote the above many years AFTER Jesus had died and been raised.  And he was still WAITING FOR these things to happen.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away………..

Jesus told John that his revelation was of things TO COME.  He told John this over 50 years AFTER he had died and gone to heaven.  Also, look at the word “FOR” that I supersized for you.  There will be a new heaven and a new earth BECAUSE the old ones WILL pass away eventually.

So not until the old ones die will there be new ones.

So not only are you taking words from different scriptures and different contexts, and superimposing those words over other teachings to make your point, but your point doesn't even work AFTER you've done all that scriptural juggling.

But you go ahead and “waste time” by “pointing it out to me” when you get the chance, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2013,10:00)

Now, poor old John was so stupid he didn't know he should have written the word Jesus there (a Person) instead of Just “word” (intelligent utterance), So along comes Jammin, and Mike, and other Trinitarians and Preexistence's and Just straighten out poor old stupid John's writings, to read as they say it should.

I wonder if Gene “straightens out poor old stupid John” in Revelation 19:13, where he also wrote “The Word”, but was clearly referring to Jesus.

[Author]

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