JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

K

Quote

he is a new creature

NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF

THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:04)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. K Quote he is a new creature NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO

T,

They are both linked as both were accomplished by Jesus' self sacrifice. The device just has not yet finished its work.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19 speaks of a new spiritual creature and Revelations 21:5 speaks of when the work is complete and all thing have been made new.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:04) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. K Quote he is a new creature NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO T, They are both linked as both were accomplished by Jesus' self sacrifice.  The device just has not yet finished its work.   2 Corinthians 5:17-19 speaks of a new spiritual creature and Revelations 21:5  speaks of when the work is complete and all thing have been made new.

K

i DISAGREE ON THE BASES THAT OUR LIVES STARTS WITH CHRIST AND OUR REBIRTH IN HIS WAY ,AND BELIEVE IN HIM THAT GOD SEND

IN REVELATION ALL THE THINGS THAT WILL BE NEW EARTH AND HEAVEN ALL DONE BY GOD HIMSELF ,NOT PART OF THE WORK OF CHRIST THE SON

THEY ARE NOT LINK BUT ARE WORKS THAT FOLLOW EACH OTHER

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5……………..

Why?    What would a teaching about NEW things in Revelation or 2 Corinthians have to do with what's said in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2?  

Why would you grab a DIFFERENT teaching from a DIFFERENT place in the Bible, and superimpose it OVER the original teachings of those other three scriptures?

In Hebrews 1, Paul said the Israelites were “baptized into Moses”, right?  Can I just take that statement, and superimpose it over other teachings about baptism, and conclude that we are to be baptized in the name of MOSES, and not JESUS?

You did the same thing with “in spirit” on the other thread.  Just because one scriptural teaching is about “in spirit” doesn't mean you can take that, out of context, and ALTER a verse that says “OF spirit” to “IN spirit”.

I'm not sure why you would even THINK you could do such an asinine thing.  

At any rate, the bottom line is that neither Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2 actually specify that only “NEW” things were created through Jesus.  And surely the writers of those verses knew how to write the word “NEW” into those teachings – if that is what they wanted to teach us.

Also, in 1 Cor 8:6, the “all things” that came from God are the same “all things” that came through Jesus.  Will you have us believe that only “NEW” things have come from God?

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,02:01)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 17 2013,09:19) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,03:46) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 15 2013,09:51) kerwin, why dont you make your own english bible and make it all small letters. LOL no translator will agree to you Jammin, Are you claiming that no one but I believe that all things are created anew by Christ? i am claiming that no translator will support your all small letters english bible LOL Jammin, So your objection is that I treat the arbitrary use of capitalization in the English translations your know as of no account.   My reasoning is the translators you put so much stock in are predisposed to word all translations according to their preconceived ideas.  That means throwing in capitalization when it is in accordance with doctrine. I have no idea why the KJV translators choose to capitalize heaven when it was the name of the sky but not when it was the name of the heaven of earth.  I would have chosen to capitalize the name of the realm of God's throne if I chose to capitalize either use. If you choose to follow the crowd then then that is your choice but remember wide is the path that leads to destruction.

Why dont you make your own english bible with all small letters?lol

[jammin]

Kerwin
According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree?

[GeneBalthrop]

Jammin……… the son of Man (Jesus) can of his ownself do “NOTHING” , the FATHER who is “IN ” Him “HE” doth the works

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2013,12:52)

Kerwin According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree?

Jammin,

I agree that the new earth and the new heaven were created by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself to save us from our sins.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,05:55)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5…………….. Why?    What would a teaching about NEW things in Revelation or 2 Corinthians have to do with what's said in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2?   Why would you grab a DIFFERENT teaching from a DIFFERENT place in the Bible, and superimpose it OVER the original teachings of those other three scriptures? In Hebrews 1, Paul said the Israelites were “baptized into Moses”, right?  Can I just take that statement, and superimpose it over other teachings about baptism, and conclude that we are to be baptized in the name of MOSES, and not JESUS? You did the same thing with “in spirit” on the other thread.  Just because one scriptural teaching is about “in spirit” doesn't mean you can take that, out of context, and ALTER a verse that says “OF spirit” to “IN spirit”. I'm not sure why you would even THINK you could do such an asinine thing.   At any rate, the bottom line is that neither Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2 actually specify that only “NEW” things were created through Jesus.  And surely the writers of those verses knew how to write the word “NEW” into those teachings – if that is what they wanted to teach us. Also, in 1 Cor 8:6, the “all things” that came from God are the same “all things” that came through Jesus.  Will you have us believe that only “NEW” things have come from God?

Mike,

It is called context.  It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross.  There is no context to show that the original creation was created by him.  All that are explicitly mentioned in the event of creation are God, his word, and his Spirit.

Jammin has a better on Hebrews 1:10 because the passage that is being used is speaking of Jehovah and the original creation.  It is applied to Jesus Christ because it is true about him in another context.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,01:47)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:12) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:04) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. K Quote he is a new creature NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO T, They are both linked as both were accomplished by Jesus' self sacrifice.  The device just has not yet finished its work.   2 Corinthians 5:17-19 speaks of a new spiritual creature and Revelations 21:5  speaks of when the work is complete and all thing have been made new. K i DISAGREE ON THE BASES THAT OUR LIVES STARTS WITH CHRIST AND OUR REBIRTH  IN HIS WAY ,AND BELIEVE IN HIM THAT GOD SEND IN REVELATION ALL THE THINGS THAT WILL BE NEW EARTH AND HEAVEN ALL DONE BY GOD HIMSELF ,NOT PART OF THE WORK OF CHRIST THE SON THEY ARE NOT LINK BUT ARE WORKS THAT FOLLOW EACH OTHER

T,

Why do you think certain people are the first fruits of creation?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14)

There is no context to show that the original creation was created by him.

Really?  How about the context where inspired writers of scripture explicitly say that ALL THINGS were created through Jesus – and they intentionally LEAVE OUT the word “NEW”?  

My God, man!  Just because a NEW thing is taught about in one scripture doesn't mean we can just go around ADDING the word “NEW” into other scriptures where it wasn't written.  What's wrong with you?  

Are you going to preach that we need to be baptized into MOSES – just because one scripture speaks of that?

Are you going to change Holy Spirit OF God to Holy Spirit IN God – just because a different scripture speaks about the spirit in us?

How far will you go in the process of writing your own Bible?  Will there be ANY of the old Bible truths still in it when you're finally done?  

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14)

All that are explicitly mentioned in the event of creation are God, his word, and his Spirit.

His Word you say?  Hmmmm………….  Who do we know in scripture that is called “the Word of God”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14)

It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross.

Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,04:16)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,01:47) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:12) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:04) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. K Quote he is a new creature NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO T, They are both linked as both were accomplished by Jesus' self sacrifice.  The device just has not yet finished its work.   2 Corinthians 5:17-19 speaks of a new spiritual creature and Revelations 21:5  speaks of when the work is complete and all thing have been made new. K i DISAGREE ON THE BASES THAT OUR LIVES STARTS WITH CHRIST AND OUR REBIRTH  IN HIS WAY ,AND BELIEVE IN HIM THAT GOD SEND IN REVELATION ALL THE THINGS THAT WILL BE NEW EARTH AND HEAVEN ALL DONE BY GOD HIMSELF ,NOT PART OF THE WORK OF CHRIST THE SON THEY ARE NOT LINK BUT ARE WORKS THAT FOLLOW EACH OTHER T, Why do you think certain people are the first fruits of creation?

K

why was Israel the first nation with God's name on

why was Adam the first man and eve the first women

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 19 2013,05:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,04:16) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,01:47) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:12) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:04) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:11) I'd have an easier time believing it if you could show me the word “anew” in Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, or Heb 1:2. Can you do that, Kerwin? Mike, I get it from Revelations 21:5 and I use anew instead new because I remember hearing it that way.   They are also mentioned in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Here is it in context. 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. K Quote he is a new creature NEW COMPERED TO WHAT WAS IT NOT THE OLD SELF THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH REVELATION AS IT NO T, They are both linked as both were accomplished by Jesus' self sacrifice.  The device just has not yet finished its work.   2 Corinthians 5:17-19 speaks of a new spiritual creature and Revelations 21:5  speaks of when the work is complete and all thing have been made new. K i DISAGREE ON THE BASES THAT OUR LIVES STARTS WITH CHRIST AND OUR REBIRTH  IN HIS WAY ,AND BELIEVE IN HIM THAT GOD SEND IN REVELATION ALL THE THINGS THAT WILL BE NEW EARTH AND HEAVEN ALL DONE BY GOD HIMSELF ,NOT PART OF THE WORK OF CHRIST THE SON THEY ARE NOT LINK BUT ARE WORKS THAT FOLLOW EACH OTHER T, Why do you think certain people are the first fruits of creation? K why was Israel the first nation with God's name on why was Adam the first man and eve the first women

T,

As far as I know Israel was the first.

Adam and Eve were the first humans.

I do not yet see how this answers my question.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,05:14)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14) It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus.

Mike,

Your question shows you lack understanding of the full accomplishments of Jesus' sacrifice. You say you have read them many times and yet you don't understand that Jesus' sacrifice released creation from its bondage to corruption.

Romans 8:18-25
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

[terraricca]

K

Quote

T, As far as I know Israel was the first. Adam and Eve were the first humans. I do not yet see how this answers my question.

MAY BE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION ;FRUITS ARE THE RESULTS OF WORK ,ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES AND BEING FIRST FRUITS MEANS THAT THEIR IS MORE THAN ONE HARVEST

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,18:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,05:14) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14) It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus. Mike, Your question shows you lack understanding of the full accomplishments of Jesus' sacrifice.  You say you have read them many times and yet you don't understand that Jesus' sacrifice released creation from its bondage to corruption.   Romans 8:18-25 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Okay. I read the passage you quoted.

Now show me the scriptures that actually SAY what you've claimed to me and to jammin.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,07:46)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,18:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 19 2013,05:14) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 18 2013,16:14) It is true that all things were created new by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Show me in scripture.  Also, show me from scripture the claim you made to jammin………. the one that says the new heaven and new earth have already been created by Jesus. Mike, Your question shows you lack understanding of the full accomplishments of Jesus' sacrifice.  You say you have read them many times and yet you don't understand that Jesus' sacrifice released creation from its bondage to corruption.   Romans 8:18-25 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Okay.  I read the passage you quoted. Now show me the scriptures that actually SAY what you've claimed to me and to jammin.

Mike,

I already did and you failed to understand it.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,09:05)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 18 2013,12:52) Kerwin According to heb1:10 the son created the heavens. Do you agree? Jammin, I agree that the new earth and the new heaven were created by Jesus when he chose to sacrifice himself to save us from our sins.

Did heb 1.10 say christ created NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH? OR JUST THE HEAVENS ARE MADE BY YOUR HANDS ETC?

[jammin]

Gene

Make your own bible and change heb 1:10 lol

[Author]

Posts