JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Hi Wakeup:

You use Revelation 4:11 to try to make your point and then when I show you that you are understanding this incorrectly you just gloss right over what has been shown you, and go right on with your thinking that Jesus is the creator.

Let me post this for you again since you brought up Revelation 4:11. These scriptures when read in context show that God is the creator:

Quote

Rev 4:2

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

(Ok, so one is sitting on the throne. Who is this person sitting on the throne?)

Rev 4:3

And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

Rev 4:4

And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev 4:6

And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev 4:7

And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

Rev 4:8

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

(This verse identifies who it is that is sitting on the throne, and it is the Lord God Almighty, not Jesus)

Rev 4:9

And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

Rev 4:10

The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Rev 4:11

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

(And this verse shows that God created all things, not Jesus.)
Rev 5:1

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 5:4

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 5:5

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Rev 5:6

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

(And this verse shows that it is Jesus who has prevailed to open the seven seals, and shows him taking them from him that sits on the throne, that is from God)
Rev 5:8

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Word of God to humanity is that which God has spoken through Jesus in these last days, and the Word of God that he has obeyed unto death on the cross.

Quote

Jhn 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm#359544

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 12 2013,21:30)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2013,23:34)

Wakeup,

Quote

Jesus is the *only man* that have been in heaven.

A common misunderstanding that seems to be common on this website.

John 3:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

What Jesus declares is that he has already ascended to heaven even though in point of fact he has not yet bodily ascended into heaven.

Even going by the AKJV, Jesus is bodily located on earth when he states the Son of man is in heaven.

It is wise to adjust your doctrine so it explains why Jesus was still bodily on earth after ascending and being in heaven.

Kerwin.

[/QUOTE]A common misunderstanding that seems to be common on this website.
John 3:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
What Jesus declares is that he has already ascended to heaven even though in point of fact he has not yet bodily ascended into heaven.
Even going by the AKJV, Jesus is bodily located on earth when he states the Son of man is in heaven.
It is wise to adjust your doctrine so it explains why Jesus was still bodily on earth after ascending and being in heaven.
[/QUOTE].

(john 3:13).
You can not see if you refuse to see,or look.
Jesus was speaking about himself when he was in heaven with his Father. You refuse to see,because that would
do your doctrine no good. What happened to honesty?

What happened to clear conscience?

wakeup.

Wakeup,

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and he used a past tense word to say he had ascended and a present tense to say the Son of Man was currently in heaven.

In verse fourteen he mentions how he is to be lifted up in the future.

John 3:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Now if you were to claim the Jesus, the Son of God, had spiritually descended from God so that God was in him and he, the Son of man, had spiritually ascended so he, the Son of man, was in God, whose throne is in heaven then I would agree.

October 13, 2013 at 1:31 am#359545

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 12 2013,15:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,03:04)

1. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?

2. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?

3. Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?

I might have to qualify how, but the answer to those questions is yes.

Love in Christ,
Marty

By all means, qualify for me. But please keep your qualifications organized – as in one separate answer for each of the three separate questions.

October 14, 2013 at 4:00 am#359594

jammin

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:32)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 09 2013,07:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2013,19:51)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 08 2013,12:43)

John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

14 The Word became
a human being
and lived here with us.
We saw his true glory,
the glory of the only Son
of the Father.
From him all the kindness
and all the truth of God
have come down to us.

i answered your question. Jesus is called the Word before he became human.

now answer mine, who is the Word in rev 19.13?
1. jesus
2. kerwin

choose one boy

Jammin,

This is what wikipedia states about the CEV:

Quote

Moreover, the CEV often paraphrases in order to make the underlying point of a passage clear, rather than directly translating the wording.

This introduces a greater chance of error due to bias than direct translation as the translator is interpreting their perception of the idea of the whole of what they are paraphrasing rather than just one word.

The sum of your claim is since the translators believe it must be translated and interpreted this way then it must be true.

My answer is that I do not find them creditable and I am asking for a creditable source to support your claim.

As far as I know, by the time Revelations 19:13 rolls around we both agree that Jesus is called by the name of the word. I have been telling you but you act as if we disagree. Our disagreement is when he was first called by the name of the word.

that is just an opinion of wikipedia.
cev is not the only one who says that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ.

commentaries also said that and bible versions.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

In the beginning was the word,…. That this is said not of the written word, but of the essential word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, is clear, from all that is said from hence, to John 1:14 as that this word was in the beginning, was with God, and is God;

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

1:1-5 The plainest reason why the Son of God is called the Word, seems to be, that as our words explain our minds to others, so was the Son of God sent in order to reveal his Father's mind to the world.

John 1:1

New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

i gave you word for word kerwin and explanation from commentaries but you dont want to accept it. you are still proclaiming the bad news.
the sheep of Christ hears his voice and you are not of them

Jammin,

There are men that have the opinion that the word is John is the name of Christ. These men can be translators or those who comment on the meaning of Scripture. In the case of the New Life Version the () tell you it is a comment. It is not in Koine Greek which is deemed to be the original language and so the comment must be the translators. I do not view either or the commentators you quoted as writing scripture.

I am looking fore actual Scripture that reveals Jesus was the word before he was conceived in Mary's inner parts.

you dont accept version. you dont accept the bible. you dont accept commentaries. you are givinng me opinion.

ok to be fair.
i gave you versions and commentaries that say that the WORD in john 1.1 is Christ.

ok i dare you.
give me ANY SINGLE VERSION AND COMMENTARY THAT SAYS IN JOHN 1.1 THAT THE WORD IS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

be true to yourself kerwin. you know what is the truth but you still insist that doctine of men.

October 14, 2013 at 6:46 am#359596

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 12 2013,12:58)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 11 2013,09:00)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 11 2013,02:39)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 10 2013,13:40)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2013,03:55)

Hi Wakeup:

The scriptures that you quote from Jeremiah is God speaking to Jeremiah, but God spoke to the nation of Israel through Jeremiah warning them of the impending judgment to come if they did not repent.

You say that Only Jesus is the Word of God? The scripture in Hebrews 1 would surely disagree with you on this assessment, and Jesus is God's spokesman if God spoke through him, but God also spoke through the prophets, and so they also were God's spokesmen, but he, Jesus, is the “express image of God's person” because he obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and so, he became the “image of God” through the application of God's Word in his daily living, and so, in that sense he is the Word of God, but he was not the “Word” in John 1, that “life giving spirit” was formed within him through obedience to God's Word.

The Word pertains to him in John 1, and the Word is God in John 1c because it is through His Word that God reveals his character, and he gave us Jesus in order to reconcile us unto Himself, but Jesus had to be born into this world and become the express image of his person. He was born an infant man child, and at the age of 12 we get a glimpse of him learning the Word of God and discussing the Word with the scribes in the synagogue, and then being anointed for his ministry to humanity at the age of 30, and then successfully obeying God without sin unto death on the cross.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

That only means that there is *God and his spokesman*
in heaven. Two different entities.This can not be.

BESIDE ME;THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD.
GOD IS BY HIMSELF,AND HIS WORD/BREATH, IN HIM.

1.The Word made all that is made.
2.Jesus made all that is made.
3.A spokesman can not give life,
and was not the tree of life in the garden.
4.The spokesman can not be the breath of God.
5. Psalms 33:6 By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them
***by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH***.
6.God's breath was always in him from everlasting.

Jesus is the WORD OF GOD(BREATH) MADE FLESH.
I created all things by *MY SELF*.

And so is the Holy bible: the WORD OF GOD *IN PRINT*.
To come to God;we need to go
**THROUH THE SCRIPTURES**ONLY;
can not come to God through some other means.

wakeup.

No Wakeup, Jesus is not the creator. God created everything by His Word. And yes besides him there is no savior. He is the one that gave us His Only Begotten Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Colossians 1:16.
***For by him were all things created***,
that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
*** all things were created by him, and for him***:

Colossians 1:17 ***And he is before all things***,
***and by him all things consist***.

Refering to Jesus:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Refering to God:
Here lies the mystery to the world.

No one can deny this truth.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

God created everything that he created knowing that a particular point in time, His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through Jesus, and He created every thing that He created for him. Jesus is God's Heir, and we are joint heirs with him.

This is what the verses that you quoted from Colossians mean. These verses do not say that Jesus is the Creator.

And if you will read Revelation 4 & 5 in context you will see that Revelation 4:11 refers to God not to Jesus.

Quote

Rev 4:8

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Revelation 4:11 refers to Him who sits on the throne who is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. This is not Jesus. He is not God.

And the following verses show Jesus coming to take the seven seals from His hand:

Quote

Rev 5:6

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev 5:7

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

quote:
Revelation 4:11 refers to Him who sits on the throne who is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. This is not Jesus. He is not God.

—————————————————————–
AGREE, but the Lamb of God is inside God on the same throne. Note: Just the one throne. see below.
—————————————————————–
quote:
And the following verses show Jesus coming to take the seven seals from His hand:

—————————————————————- HE CAME OUT OF THE SAME THRONE WHERE GOD
IS SITTING.
—————————————————————–

Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

—————————————————————–YOU DID NOT TAKE NOTE OF THIS ONE.
IT SAYS IN THE **MIDS OF THE THRONE**
THE SAME THRONE WHERE GOD IS SITTING.
FOR HE IS INSIDE GOD. HE IS ONE WITH GOD.
—————————————————————–

Rev 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

YES; HE CAME OUT OF GOD AND TOOK THE BOOK.
THIS IS WHERE THE FLESHLY MIND CAN NOT CONCE
IVE.
THE WORD IS WITHIN GOD,AND CAN ALSO BE WITHOUT .

wakeup.

October 14, 2013 at 3:56 pm#359601

Participant

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you agree that in the verses in Revelation 4, it is God who is shown sitting on the throne, and if you agree, then,

Quote

Rev 4:11

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Who is the creator?

Jesus is shown taking the seven seals out of His hand when he finished his ministry and was exalted to the right hand of God, but yes, the same Word that is within Jesus is within God since it originated from Him, and it is God who dwells within Jesus by His Spirit and by His Word.

Jesus is at the right hand of God as head of the church, and God sits on the throne as the head of Jesus.

Quote

Hbr 1:1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hbr 1:2

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hbr 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Quote

Rev 6:16

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 14, 2013 at 5:42 pm#359602

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 14 2013,10:00)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2013,05:32)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 09 2013,07:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 08 2013,19:51)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 08 2013,12:43)

John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

14 The Word became
a human being
and lived here with us.
We saw his true glory,
the glory of the only Son
of the Father.
From him all the kindness
and all the truth of God
have come down to us.

i answered your question. Jesus is called the Word before he became human.

now answer mine, who is the Word in rev 19.13?
1. jesus
2. kerwin

choose one boy

Jammin,

This is what wikipedia states about the CEV:

Quote

Moreover, the CEV often paraphrases in order to make the underlying point of a passage clear, rather than directly translating the wording.

The sum of your claim is since the translators believe it must be translated and interpreted this way then it must be true.

My answer is that I do not find them creditable and I am asking for a creditable source to support your claim.

that is just an opinion of wikipedia.
cev is not the only one who says that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ.

commentaries also said that and bible versions.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

John 1:1

New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

i gave you word for word kerwin and explanation from commentaries but you dont want to accept it. you are still proclaiming the bad news.
the sheep of Christ hears his voice and you are not of them

Jammin,

I am looking fore actual Scripture that reveals Jesus was the word before he was conceived in Mary's inner parts.

you dont accept version. you dont accept the bible. you dont accept commentaries. you are givinng me opinion.

ok to be fair.
i gave you versions and commentaries that say that the WORD in john 1.1 is Christ.

ok i dare you.
give me ANY SINGLE VERSION AND COMMENTARY THAT SAYS IN JOHN 1.1 THAT THE WORD IS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

be true to yourself kerwin. you know what is the truth but you still insist that doctine of men.

Jammin,

You state that I am giving you my opinion when I am taking Scripture just as it is written and you are not. I choose to test what you claim is true and point to the flaws I have found in your reasoning. Your defense is to quote the opinions of men who are experts, basically priests of one Christology, while other experts disagree with them.

I just demand a better quality of evidence from you. The best that we have available is the Koine Greek versions of the New Testament and Hebrew versions of the Old Testament but the English word for word and idiom translations are acceptable. Doctrinal comments and paraphrase lack too much creditability to establish the truth though they can be used for other reasons.

I doubt you will find that the Messiah was called the word previous to when John said the word was made flesh as I believe I would have noticed it as I read. I might have missed it but none have ever pointed it out in my discussions.

On the other hand it is written that a time would come when God would write his word on the minds of his people and place it in their hearts. In that way the word was made flesh.

Jeremiah 31:33
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:33
American Standard Version (ASV)

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Jeremiah 31:33
New International Version (NIV)

33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

October 14, 2013 at 8:41 pm#359606

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,12:31)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 12 2013,15:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,03:04)

1. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?

2. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?

3. Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?

I might have to qualify how, but the answer to those questions is yes.

Love in Christ,
Marty

By all means, qualify for me. But please keep your qualifications organized – as in one separate answer for each of the three separate questions.

Mike:

Number 1, the sayings of God were with Him as a plan for His creation, and it is through this plan which was to give us His only begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins, and to reconcile us unto Himself, He manifests His character. God is love.

#2, The prophetic sayings of God relative to Jesus became a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born into this world of the virgin Mary.

#3: Jesus has been Lord and Christ, and it is through the Word of God that he will make war and judge humanity.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 14, 2013 at 11:08 pm#359608

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 15 2013,02:56)

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you agree that in the verses in Revelation 4, it is God who is shown sitting on the throne, and if you agree, then,

Quote

Rev 4:11

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Who is the creator?

Jesus is at the right hand of God as head of the church, and God sits on the throne as the head of Jesus.

Quote

Hbr 1:1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hbr 1:2

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hbr 1:3

Quote

Rev 6:16

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

God *IS* the source of all power,his will be done.
When God speaks; His word shall not return empty.
All things are created through his Word; who is now called
Jesus/the Son of man/the Son of David,of the root of David.
At the coming he will be called; The Word Of God.
Now Jesus is given all authority,and power.
For he will rule for a 1000yrs.

wakeup.

October 15, 2013 at 3:19 am#359620

jammin

Participant

Kerwin,
I gave you version and commentaries that say that the word in john 1:1 is christ. Im askng you, can you give me version and commentary that will say that the word in jn1:1 is the holy spirit?

October 15, 2013 at 3:34 am#359621

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 15 2013,09:19)

Kerwin,
I gave you version and commentaries that say that the word in john 1:1 is christ. Im askng you, can you give me version and commentary that will say that the word in jn1:1 is the holy spirit?

Jammin,

You have me confused with someone else or you remember something I tested some time ago. I am telling you that John is literally waxing poetic about the word just like the same is done in other passages.

John 1:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1
American Standard Version (ASV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1
New International Version (NIV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

My opinion is to point out that John means what he states even while he indulges in poetry.

October 15, 2013 at 6:59 am#359629

jammin

Participant

Therefore you cnt give me any single version or cmentary that say that the word in jn1:1 i rs the hs. Be true to yourself kerwin. How cn u say that your belief is the truth if you cnt supsupport it with docs? Does it make sense?

October 15, 2013 at 5:23 pm#359633

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 15 2013,12:59)

Jammin,

I am not claiming that the word is the holy spirit. I am claiming the the word is God's Law, Promises, Plans, and whatever else is of the like. The context determines the details.

There are three elements recorded in Genesis as being at the creation and they are God; his word, defined as above; and the holy spirit. The Christ is not there.

Hebrews 11:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

John 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Both verses are essentially saying the same thing as they wax poetic. The accounts of creation in Genesis also state the same.

October 15, 2013 at 11:11 pm#359640

Participant

Hi Wakeup:

You say:

Quote

At the coming he will be called; The Word Of God.

Well, not exactly. This is what the scripture states:

Quote

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

“His name” here refers to the character he exemplifies because he has obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross, and because it is through that Word that he will judge humanity.

Quote

Jhn 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

But I have no problem with saying that he is the Word of God since he obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross, and it is through this Word that we have salvation in him, as long as we understand that the Word of God did not originate from him, but from God. He said that he was the bread of life which came down from heaven, and so, we understand that his body was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary, and that through the Word of God his spirit was formed in this life as he obeyed the Word of God unto death on the cross. And so, the scripture states that he was made “a life giving spirit”.

Quote

1Jo 5:9
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son
1Jo 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jo 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 16, 2013 at 12:35 pm#359655

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 16 2013,10:11)

Hi Wakeup:

You say:

Quote

At the coming he will be called; The Word Of God.

Well, not exactly. This is what the scripture states:

Quote

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Quote

Jhn 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Quote

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Please clarify this statement:

AND THE *WORD* WAS **MADE FLESH**

A man/spokesman, was not *created* to carry the Word of God,
But the Word was *MADE* flesh.From spirit Word to flesh.
The Word was *NOT* put in the flesh,just to carry the Word.

I know them who teaches this same doctrine.
Your statement also contradicts this scripture.(below).

Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*,
though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
***yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.

THIS SO CALLED SPOKESMAN DOES NOT FIT THESE WORDS, **FROM OF OLD** AND**FROM EVERLASTING**.

Need to rephrase micah5:2: Maybe already done so.
And this have they done over and over again,for their own
gain.

wakeup.

October 16, 2013 at 4:34 pm#359660

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,23:34)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 16 2013,10:11)

Hi Wakeup:

You say:

Quote

At the coming he will be called; The Word Of God.

Well, not exactly. This is what the scripture states:

Quote

Rev 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Quote

Jhn 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Quote

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Please clarify this statement:

AND THE *WORD* WAS **MADE FLESH**

A man/spokesman, was not *created* to carry the Word of God,
But the Word was *MADE* flesh.From spirit Word to flesh.
The Word was *NOT* put in the flesh,just to carry the Word.

I know them who teaches this same doctrine.
Your statement also contradicts this scripture.(below).

THIS SO CALLED SPOKESMAN DOES NOT FIT THESE WORDS, **FROM OF OLD** AND**FROM EVERLASTING**.

Need to rephrase micah5:2: Maybe already done so.
And this have they done over and over again,for their own
gain.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

What that scripture means is that the prophetic Word of God relative to Jesus became a reality when he was born of the flesh.

No, it does not contradict the scripture from Micah that you quoted. This scripture is also prophetic relative to the coming of the Messiah.

And when Jesus was speaking of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, he made it clear that he was not talking about literally eating his flesh and drinking his blood, but he was speaking about the Word of God that he was speaking to humanity.

He said:

Quote

Jhn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

And so, since you make the statement the Word was made flesh mean from spirit to flesh, in some other way than I have stated, that is that the prophetic Word of God became flesh. Please show me by the scriptures what that means.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 16, 2013 at 8:48 pm#359666

carmel

Participant

kerwin,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

COLOSSIANS IS DIRECTED BOTH TO THE BELIEVERS AND TO THE UNBELIEVERS!

Colossians 1:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is clear you are the one that is “WRONG, WRONG , AND WRONG! WITH EVERY RESPECT” as your words disagree with the words of Scripture.

Kerwin,

IN A WAY, I AGREE, BUT, I DIDN'T MAKE MYSELF CLEAR ENOUGH WHAT I MEANT!

I SAID: COLOSSIANS IS DIRECTED BOTH TO THE BELIEVERS AND TO THE UNBELIEVERS!

SO LET’S READ WHAT SCRIPTURES SAYS:

2 To the saints and FAITHFULL brethren in Christ Jesus,…………..

FROM THE ABOVE WE ARE AWARE THAT PAUL WAS TALKING TO THE SAINTS AND FAITHFULL BRETHREN AND YOU KNOW WHAT FAITHFULL MEANS!
NOW IN YOUR OPINION, WHO IS A BELIEVER IN THE TRUTH?

OBVIOUS THOSE WHO ARE FAITHFULL! NO?

THOSE WHO PRACTICE CHRIST’S TEACHING! NO?

SO IN FRONT OF HIM, PAUL HAD FAITHFUL SAINTS, TRUE BELIEVERS, AND UNFAITHFUL SAINTS, THEREFORE UNBELIEVERS!

SO BELIEVERS ARE NOT BELIEVERS AT ALL IF THEY DON'T PRACTICE CHRIST'S TEACHING! THIS NEW MAN CONCEPT WHICH PAUL STRESSED ABOUT DUE TO THE FACT THAT SOME OF THEM WHERE NOT READY TO RADICALLY CHANGE THEMSELVES!

ALSO UNBELIEVERS ARE BELIEVERS WHEN THEY PRACTICE CHRIST'S TEACHING! THIS NEW MAN CONCEPT EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, WHICH TO DAY ALL PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL ARE DOING NO MATTER WHAT BELIEF THEY ARE SUBJECT TO!

NOW READ:

Luke 18: Two men went up into the temple to pray: the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: ………………..13And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; …………….14 I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather that the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted.

Matthew 8: 10And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel. 11And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: 12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13And Jesus said to the centurion:

GO, AND AS THOUGH HAST BELIEVED,

so be it done to thee. And the servant was healed at the same hour.

THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES ARE CLEAR EXAMPLES OF WHAT I MEAN.

IN LUKE’S,THE PUBLICAN, ALTHOUGH HE WAS NOT UNDER MOSES’ LAWS, AN ISRAELITE, ONE OF GOD’S PEOPLE, IS MORE JUSTIFIED IN FRONT OF GOD

IN MATTHEW’S JESUS HIMSELF CONFIRMED THAT:

many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: 12BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM SHALL BE CAST OUT into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

SO NOW YOU WOULD AGREE THAT ALTHOUGH COLOSSIANS WAS WRITTEN TO THE SAINTS IN COLOSSE, IT WAS DIRECTED TO

ALL MEN WHO WERE READY TO BE PART OF GOD’S KINGDOM WITHIN THE NEW MAN CONCEPT OF THE SPIRIT AND TRUTH OF CHRIST IRRELEVANT FROM ANY RELIGIONS, BELIEFS, AND SO ON! SINCE GOD’S KINGDOM HAS MANY MANSIONS!

REFLECT NOW ON :

Colossians 1:6 Which is come unto you, as also it is IN THE WHOLE WORLD, and bringeth forth fruit and groweth, even as it doth in you, since the day you heard and knew the grace of GOD IN TRUTH.

Colossians 1:8Who also hath manifested to us your love IN THE SPIRIT.

OK SO IT IS EMPHASIZED A BELIEVER IN THE SPIRIT AND TRUTH, NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE BAPTISED!

READ AGAIN:

Colossians 1:28 WHOM WE PREACH, ADMONISHING EVERY MAN, AND TEACHING EVERYMAN IN ALL WISDOM, THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERY MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.

SO NO DOUBT, IT IS EMPHATICALLY CONFIRMED THAT PAUL WAS ADDRESSING THE SAINTS IN COLOSSE, BUT HE WAS DIRECTING HIS TEACHING TO EVERY MAN

BELIEVERS AND NON BELIEVERS!

BAPTISED, AND NOT BAPTISED!

ALSO, KEEP IN MIND THAT PAUL’S RESPONSIBILITY WAS NOT WATER BAPTISM , BUT CHRIST’S SPIRIT BAPTISM, AND HE MADE THIS CLEAR IN:

1Corinthians 1: 17 FOR CHRIST SENT ME NOT TO BAPTISE, but to preach the gospel:

not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void.

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

October 16, 2013 at 10:48 pm#359667

Participant

Carmel,

Quote

ALSO UNBELIEVERS ARE BELIEVERS WHEN THEY PRACTICE CHRIST'S TEACHING! THIS NEW MAN CONCEPT EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, WHICH TO DAY ALL PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL ARE DOING NO MATTER WHAT BELIEF THEY ARE SUBJECT TO!

There is no way for a person to obtain the new man but through belief in Jesus Christ. That is why he is the way the truth and the light.

John 14:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Romans 6:4-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

October 17, 2013 at 12:30 am#359678

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2013,14:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,12:31)

1. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?

2. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?

3. Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?

Mike:

#2, The prophetic sayings of God relative to Jesus became a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born into this world of the virgin Mary.

#3: Jesus has been Lord and Christ, and it is through the Word of God that he will make war and judge humanity.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Okay Marty. The following is “the word of God”:

“Let there be light.”

Are you saying that the aforementioned “saying of God” could “become flesh, and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son”?

October 17, 2013 at 12:47 am#359681