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Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,17:45) As soon as the Word was made flesh Jesus became the being that embodies the idea of the word to the fullest extent possible.
So you honestly answered “YES” to ALL of my Word/Jesus comparisons. And you acknowledge that Jesus is “the Word” in Rev 19:13.But because you are dead set against acknowledging that Jesus IS the Word (for PERSONAL reasons), you have imagined a “Word” that became flesh, and a separate being named Jesus who merely “embodied the idea of the word”.
Kerwin, I second Wakeup when he asked, Where is your understanding?
Okay, so what or who exactly was the LITERAL “word” when it/he became flesh? If Jesus is someone OTHER THAN “the Word”, then who exactly was “the Word”? What flesh form did “the Word” take on when it dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,17:58) So your chosen teaching is Jesus emptied himself of power and took on the form of a servant; who was not empty of power, as is revealed by the miracles he did.
Jesus didn't DO the miracles, Kerwin. God performed the miracles THROUGH Jesus. Would you like the scripture?Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,06:51) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,07:26) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,10:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,04:53) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,09:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin.Where is understanding?
The Word of God as a being with wisdom brought forth *OUT OF* God,before the world was. Was *WITH* God.
And the Word *WAS* God.*This is when he still was *IN* God*.He/Word is the *creator* on God's command/will.
He came to earth as a man.
He has given away his power as a creator,
and humbled himself. He emptied all his power.Because of his obedience to his Father;now God has given him *ALL* authority;*meaning* He does not have to ask his Father,for he can make his own decisions.
His authotity will start in his kingdom for a thousand years.
And after that He will hand it back to his Father.
And the Father will be all in all.wakeup.
Wakeup,I was addressing Mike's teaching not yours. Yours seems to consistently treat God's Word as an actual being and not as something that is spoken, thought, wrote, or expressed in another way. The Word that is represented with characteristics of a being in order to teach certain things but not to be thought of as a being.
So your chosen teaching is Jesus emptied himself of power and took on the form of a servant; who was not empty of power, as is revealed by the miracles he did.
Kerwin.You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak *not of myself*:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, **he doeth the works**.Remember;the *Father* did all the works,not Jesus.
wakeup.
Wakeup,God lives in Jesus through his Spirit and before the world God possessed Jesus' glory and held it until the time he would come to inherit it. Hence:
John 17:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
and
Hebrews 1:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
God lives in Jesus through his Spirit and before the world God possessed Jesus' glory and held it until the time he would come to inherit it. Hence:(UNQUOTE).
JESUS IS IN GOD,AND GOD IS IN JESUS.
THE WORD OF GOD/JESUS IS IN GOD, AND GOD IS IN HIS WORD/JESUS.
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME.JESUS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER PERSON BEARING THE SPIRIT OF GOD. JESUS *IS* THE WORD OF GOD IN GOD.
YOU ARE CREATING TWO ENTITIES: GOD AND THE PERSON JESUS,IN WHOM THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS.
FOR GOD IS ONE: GOD AND HIS WORD IN GOD.
BESIDE ME THERE IS *NO* SAVIOUR.IF JESUS IS ANOTHER,THEN THERE ARE TWO.
GOD AND THE SAVIOUR JESUS;THE MAN YOU SO CALLED
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD;OR THE SPOKES MAN,
OR THE MAN WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD BUT THROUGH HIS WORD.
AND HIS WORD YOU FIND IN PRINT,FOR US TO SEEK.
NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT READING THE SCRIPTURES.Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called ***The Word of God***.
IT ALWAYS COMES TO THE WORD OF GOD.
THERE IS ONLY *ONE GOD** AND *HIS WORD* INSIDE GOD,THAT HE BROUGHT FORTH IN THE BEGINNING.
BY THE *WORD* WAS ALL THINGS MADE.GOD CALLED JESUS; GOD IN HEB.1:8.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,19:26) Kerwin. You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.
Do you hear that, Kerwin? HE had glory with God before the world began.I give up. I've been over and over this with Kerwin, and he constantly ALTERS scriptural words to make his own personal wishes be realized.
Like instead of “the Word was made flesh”, he pretends “a flesh being EMBODIED the qualities of the Word”, or whatever.
I'm done with this nonsense. I've better things to do than babysit someone who doesn't really want to know what the scriptures teach unless he can FORCE them to teach what he already believes. I'm tired of dealing with “twisters”.
I believe Jesus had glory alongside God before the world began, because Jesus is the Word who was with God in the beginning. And although existing alongside God in the form of God, he allowed himself to be emptied and made into a human being so he could die for our sins.
You all believe whatever you want.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 30 2013,14:56) God lives in Jesus through his Spirit and before the world God possessed Jesus' glory and held it until the time he would come to inherit it. Hence:(UNQUOTE).
Closer, Wakeup.
Now instead of (UNQUOTE) in parenthesis at the end, use in brackets. Don't forget the forward slash.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2013,08:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,19:26) Kerwin. You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.
Do you hear that, Kerwin? HE had glory with God before the world began.I give up. I've been over and over this with Kerwin, and he constantly ALTERS scriptural words to make his own personal wishes be realized.
Like instead of “the Word was made flesh”, he pretends “a flesh being EMBODIED the qualities of the Word”, or whatever.
I'm done with this nonsense. I've better things to do than babysit someone who doesn't really want to know what the scriptures teach unless he can FORCE them to teach what he already believes. I'm tired of dealing with “twisters”.
I believe Jesus had glory alongside God before the world began, because Jesus is the Word who was with God in the beginning. And although existing alongside God in the form of God, he allowed himself to be emptied and made into a human being so he could die for our sins.
You all believe whatever you want.
MikeB.It does not matter how anyone twist or turn the scriptures.
We know that the scriptures can not be broken.
If it does not harmonise,it is wrong.Thanks for your help.
wakeup.
carmel,
Quote I am afraid you are too far away from the truth, WITH REGARDS TO JESUS CHRIST! NOW READ AND REFLECT:
COLOSSIANS 3:11……………….. BUT CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALLWHAT IS THE MEANING OF CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALL?
ISN'T IT AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL THAT JESUS AS THE WORD THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR GOD IS ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION,
AND IN ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION?
Here is the whole sentence:
Colossians 3:9-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
and it is not saying what you are saying.
So it appears that you are using a quote from scripture and attempting to apply it to a situation that is already known to be true. That does not work since I do not agree what you write is true. Instead I am convinced that Trinitarism is an irrational tenet that requires those that believe in it to either lack knowledge of Scripture or suspend their disbelief. It is not a teaching that is advanced with true reason as the internal contradictions are many.
I will use but will you? That is to be seen.
Quote THE WORD IS LIGHT AS WELL I know of nowhere in Scripture where your statement is written. Since it is not written or derived why should I write it?
Quote AND IF JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD WHICH EMANATED FROM THE FATHER, I don't even see that written in the poetic and flowery language that is employed by some parts of Scripture to describe Jesus. The closest to this statement you write is:
Hebrews 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Quote THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU, ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE! SO JESUS' WORDS ARE SPIRIT, OBVIOUS DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER WITHIN JESUS' SOUL, GOD'S MOUTHPIECE
God lives in Jesus by his Spirit. I know of nowhere in Scripture where it states or assumes he is in Jesus' or anyone else's soul. Replace soul with Spirit and I will agree.
You have written more but this is all I am answering at this time. I have no plans to answer the rest though if it should come up again I may address it then.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2013,03:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,19:26) Kerwin. You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.
Do you hear that, Kerwin? HE had glory with God before the world began.I give up. I've been over and over this with Kerwin, and he constantly ALTERS scriptural words to make his own personal wishes be realized.
Like instead of “the Word was made flesh”, he pretends “a flesh being EMBODIED the qualities of the Word”, or whatever.
I'm done with this nonsense. I've better things to do than babysit someone who doesn't really want to know what the scriptures teach unless he can FORCE them to teach what he already believes. I'm tired of dealing with “twisters”.
I believe Jesus had glory alongside God before the world began, because Jesus is the Word who was with God in the beginning. And although existing alongside God in the form of God, he allowed himself to be emptied and made into a human being so he could die for our sins.
You all believe whatever you want.
Mike,No you are not done with nonsense as you constantly write it. You even contradict yourself by claiming you believe two different things that disagree with one another.
According to you believe in this creature that is not testified as being part of the creation in the OT, who you say was transformed to a human being, is the same person who came in the flesh. You also claim death was in the world before it entered through Adam's sin.
It is not written that a being called the word transformed to a human. John 1:14 does not say how the word was made flesh but you assume it does.
No, I cannot say I am done with you no matter how lacking in reason I find your teaching as that within me always hopes you will come to see reason.
Wakeup,
Quote JESUS IS IN GOD,AND GOD IS IN JESUS.
THE WORD OF GOD/JESUS IS IN GOD, AND GOD IS IN HIS WORD/JESUS.
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME.Yes, and believers are in them and they are in believers. It is called the unity of the Spirit. That is also one reason why I wrote God is in Jesus through his Spirit even though it only explicitly written God is in believers by his Spirit.
Ephesians 4:3-6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Quote JESUS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER PERSON BEARING THE SPIRIT OF GOD. JESUS *IS* THE WORD OF GOD IN GOD. YOU ARE CREATING TWO ENTITIES: GOD AND THE PERSON JESUS,IN WHOM THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS.
FOR GOD IS ONE: GOD AND HIS WORD IN GOD.One Lord and one God sounds like two different beings.
One Mediator and one God sound like two different beings.
The Father and God of Jesus Christ sounds like two different beings.
The Father and The Son sounds like two different beings.The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.
John 17:20-23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Quote BESIDE ME THERE IS *NO* SAVIOUR. IF JESUS IS ANOTHER,THEN THERE ARE TWO.
GOD AND THE SAVIOUR JESUS;THE MAN YOU SO CALLED
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD;OR THE SPOKES MAN,
OR THE MAN WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.Without God the watchman watches in vain; so without God the Savior saves in vain. God saves through Jesus Christ just like it is written:
Romans 5:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
and
Romans 5:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Quote NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD BUT THROUGH HIS WORD.
AND HIS WORD YOU FIND IN PRINT,FOR US TO SEEK.
NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT READING THE SCRIPTURES.That is not what is written. In fact there are examples in Scripture where God's Word is preached. It is not those that hear or even read that are blessed by God but those who show it is written in their inward beings by doing it.
Quote Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called ***The Word of God***. Jesus has been called by the name of the Word ever since the Word was made flesh. He was both predestined and foretold to be the one to be so called since before the world began. Anything beyond that you are reading into Scripture.
Quote IT ALWAYS COMES TO THE WORD OF GOD.
THERE IS ONLY *ONE GOD** AND *HIS WORD* INSIDE GOD,THAT HE BROUGHT FORTH IN THE BEGINNING.
BY THE *WORD* WAS ALL THINGS MADE.Your words are true since God speaks his Word from his heart and he certainly spoke his Word in the beginning to create all things that were created.
Quote GOD CALLED JESUS; GOD IN HEB.1:8. And the Hebrews are called gods in Scripture:
Psalm 82:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.The writer of Hebrews was quoting from a wedding song that is even to this day used at Jewish weddings.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,14:16) Wakeup, Quote JESUS IS IN GOD,AND GOD IS IN JESUS.
THE WORD OF GOD/JESUS IS IN GOD, AND GOD IS IN HIS WORD/JESUS.
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME.Yes, and believers are in them and they are in believers. It is called the unity of the Spirit. That is also one reason why I wrote God is in Jesus through his Spirit even though it only explicitly written God is in believers by his Spirit.
Ephesians 4:3-6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Quote JESUS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER PERSON BEARING THE SPIRIT OF GOD. JESUS *IS* THE WORD OF GOD IN GOD. YOU ARE CREATING TWO ENTITIES: GOD AND THE PERSON JESUS,IN WHOM THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS.
FOR GOD IS ONE: GOD AND HIS WORD IN GOD.One Lord and one God sounds like two different beings.
One Mediator and one God sound like two different beings.
The Father and God of Jesus Christ sounds like two different beings.
The Father and The Son sounds like two different beings.The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.
John 17:20-23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Quote BESIDE ME THERE IS *NO* SAVIOUR. IF JESUS IS ANOTHER,THEN THERE ARE TWO.
GOD AND THE SAVIOUR JESUS;THE MAN YOU SO CALLED
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD;OR THE SPOKES MAN,
OR THE MAN WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.Without God the watchman watches in vain; so without God the Savior saves in vain. God saves through Jesus Christ just like it is written:
Romans 5:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
and
Romans 5:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Quote NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD BUT THROUGH HIS WORD.
AND HIS WORD YOU FIND IN PRINT,FOR US TO SEEK.
NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT READING THE SCRIPTURES.That is not what is written. In fact there are examples in Scripture where God's Word is preached. It is not those that hear or even read that are blessed by God but those who show it is written in their inward beings by doing it.
Quote Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called ***The Word of God***. Jesus has been called by the name of the Word ever since the Word was made flesh. He was both predestined and foretold to be the one to be so called since before the world began. Anything beyond that you are reading into Scripture.
Quote IT ALWAYS COMES TO THE WORD OF GOD.
THERE IS ONLY *ONE GOD** AND *HIS WORD* INSIDE GOD,THAT HE BROUGHT FORTH IN THE BEGINNING.
BY THE *WORD* WAS ALL THINGS MADE.Your words are true since God speaks his Word from his heart and he certainly spoke his Word in the beginning to create all things that were created.
Quote GOD CALLED JESUS; GOD IN HEB.1:8. And the Hebrews are called gods in Scripture:
Psalm 82:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.The writer of Hebrews was quoting from a wedding song that is even to this day used at Jewish weddings.
[/QUOTE]Yes, and believers are in them and they are in believers. It is called the unity of the Spirit. That is also one reason why I wrote God is in Jesus through his Spirit even though it only explicitly written God is in believers by his Spirit.Quote Believers are flesh: therfore the *spirit* is in them.
But Jesus *is spirit*: and therefore he as a spirit is *IN* the father.One Lord and one God sounds like two different beings.
One Mediator and one God sound like two different beings.
The Father and God of Jesus Christ sounds like two different beings.
The Father and The Son sounds like two different beings.
The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.Quote Yes:So it seems to you at the moment, and to the world.
This is why it's called the great mystery.
But Jesus is God's word that is in God.(one).Yes, the father and the Son are two.
But only with deeper **spiritual**understanding,you will understand,that the son came from inside God out.
The Son was the Word that was inside God,and God brought him forth by his will/mind. Just like he brought forth the angels by *his Word*.The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.
Quote You did not consider that the believers are **flesh** and Jesus is spirit.
The spirit dwells in the flesh. In Jesus case; Jesus dwells
in his Father; is part of his Father.
The Word was God.
Without God the watchman watches in vain; so without God the Savior saves in vain. God s
aves through Jesus Christ just like it is written:Quote True, all is made by the Word/Jesus.
and all plans will be done by the Word also.
**Without him was not anything made that was made**.Without him *ALSO*was no plan of God done, and finished off.
No one can get to know the truth of God
without seeking the *Word of God* in print today.
Even teaching word to mouth is still taken from the
scriptures.Your words are true since God speaks his Word from his heart and he certainly spoke his Word in the beginning to create all things that were created.
And the Hebrews are called gods in Scripture:Psalm 82:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.We are gods yes; but we are not the Word of God
with his throne. thy throne O' God—–wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,12:28) carmel, Quote I am afraid you are too far away from the truth, WITH REGARDS TO JESUS CHRIST! NOW READ AND REFLECT:
COLOSSIANS 3:11……………….. BUT CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALLWHAT IS THE MEANING OF CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALL?
ISN'T IT AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL THAT JESUS AS THE WORD THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR GOD IS ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION,
AND IN ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION?
Here is the whole sentence:
Colossians 3:9-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
and it is not saying what you are saying.
So it appears that you are using a quote from scripture and attempting to apply it to a situation that is already known to be true. That does not work since I do not agree what you write is true. Instead I am convinced that Trinitarism is an irrational tenet that requires those that believe in it to either lack knowledge of Scripture or suspend their disbelief. It is not a teaching that is advanced with true reason as the internal contradictions are many.
I will use but will you? That is to be seen.
Quote THE WORD IS LIGHT AS WELL I know of nowhere in Scripture where your statement is written. Since it is not written or derived why should I write it?
Quote AND IF JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD WHICH EMANATED FROM THE FATHER, I don't even see that written in the poetic and flowery language that is employed by some parts of Scripture to describe Jesus. The closest to this statement you write is:
Hebrews 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Quote THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU, ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE! SO JESUS' WORDS ARE SPIRIT, OBVIOUS DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER WITHIN JESUS' SOUL, GOD'S MOUTHPIECE
God lives in Jesus by his Spirit. I know of nowhere in Scripture where it states or assumes he is in Jesus' or anyone else's soul. Replace soul with Spirit and I will agree.
You have written more but this is all I am answering at this time. I have no plans to answer the rest though if it should come up again I may address it then.
Quote 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. and it is not saying what you are saying.
Kerwin,
IT SAYS: but Christ is all, and in all.
NOW EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS!
IT'S NO USE TRYING TO EVADE MY QUESTION!
SO EXPAND ON THAT TEXT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 01 2013,15:55) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,14:16) Wakeup, Quote JESUS IS IN GOD,AND GOD IS IN JESUS.
THE WORD OF GOD/JESUS IS IN GOD, AND GOD IS IN HIS WORD/JESUS.
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME.Yes, and believers are in them and they are in believers. It is called the unity of the Spirit. That is also one reason why I wrote God is in Jesus through his Spirit even though it only explicitly written God is in believers by his Spirit.
Ephesians 4:3-6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Quote JESUS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER PERSON BEARING THE SPIRIT OF GOD. JESUS *IS* THE WORD OF GOD IN GOD. YOU ARE CREATING TWO ENTITIES: GOD AND THE PERSON JESUS,IN WHOM THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS.
FOR GOD IS ONE: GOD AND HIS WORD IN GOD.One Lord and one God sounds like two different beings.
One Mediator and one God sound like two different beings.
The Father and God of Jesus Christ sounds like two different beings.
The Father and The Son sounds like two different beings.The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.
John 17:20-23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Quote BESIDE ME THERE IS *NO* SAVIOUR. IF JESUS IS ANOTHER,THEN THERE ARE TWO.
GOD AND THE SAVIOUR JESUS;THE MAN YOU SO CALLED
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF GOD;OR THE SPOKES MAN,
OR THE MAN WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.Without God the watchman watches in vain; so without God the Savior saves in vain. God saves through Jesus Christ just like it is written:
Romans 5:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
and
Romans 5:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Quote NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD BUT THROUGH HIS WORD.
AND HIS WORD YOU FIND IN PRINT,FOR US TO SEEK.
NO MAN CAN COME TO GOD WITHOUT READING THE SCRIPTURES.That is not what is written. In fact there are examples in Scripture where God's Word is preached. It is not those that hear or even read that are blessed by God but those who show it is written in their inward beings by doing it.
Quote Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called ***The Word of God***. Jesus has been called by the name of the Word ever since the Word was made flesh. He was both predestined and foretold to be the one to be so called since before the world began. Anything beyond that you are reading into Scripture.
Quote IT ALWAYS COMES TO THE WORD OF GOD.
THERE IS ONLY *ONE GOD** AND *HIS WORD* INSIDE GOD,THAT HE BROUGHT FORTH IN THE BEGINNING.
BY THE *WORD* WAS ALL THINGS MADE.Your words are true since God speaks his Word from his heart and he certainly spoke his Word in the beginning to create all things that were created.
Quote GOD CALLED JESUS; GOD IN HEB.1:8. And the Hebrews are called gods in Scripture:
Psalm 82:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.The writer of Hebrews was quoting from a wedding song that is even to this day used at Jewish weddings.
[/QUOTE]Yes, and believers are in them and they are in believers. It is called the unity of the Spirit. That is also one reason why I wrote God is in Jesus through his Spirit even though it only explicitly written God is in believers by his Spirit.Quote Believers are flesh: therfore the *spirit* is in them.
But Jesus *is spirit*: and therefore he as a spirit is *IN* the father.One Lord and one God sounds like two different beings.
One Mediator and one God sound like two different beings.
The Father and God of Jesus Christ sounds like two different beings.
The Father and The Son sounds like two different beings.
The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.Quote Yes:So it seems to you at the moment, and to the world.
This is why it's called the great mystery.
But Jesus is God's word that is in God.(one).Yes, the father and the Son are two.
But only with deeper **spiritual**understanding,you will understand,that the son came from inside God out.
The Son was the Word that was inside God,and God brought him forth by his will/mind. Just like he brought forth the angels by *his Word*.The Father and the Son are one in Spirit and so will all believers come to be.
Quote You did not consider that the believers are **flesh** and Jesus is spirit.
The spirit dwells in the flesh. In Jesus case; Jesus dwells
in his Father; is
part of his Father.
The Word was God.
Without God the watchman watches in vain; so without God the Savior saves in vain. God saves through Jesus Christ just like it is written:Quote True, all is made by the Word/Jesus.
and all plans will be done by the Word also.
**Without him was not anything made that was made**.Without him *ALSO*was no plan of God done, and finished off.
No one can get to know the truth of God
without seeking the *Word of God* in print today.
Even teaching word to mouth is still taken from the
scriptures.Your words are true since God speaks his Word from his heart and he certainly spoke his Word in the beginning to create all things that were created.
And the Hebrews are called gods in Scripture:Psalm 82:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.We are gods yes; but we are not the Word of God
with his throne. thy throne O' God—–wakeup.
Kerwin.Dont forget the one key to the mystery.
In the beginning God brought forth his Word
and he was made as God's image.How come?
Well Jesus said, that he had glory with his Father before the world was. The living Word brought forth as a Being next to the Father having glory together.He was made flesh by the will of God.
Then back to what he was before; a spirit Being with all authority.He does not have to ask his Father.The same Word that came out of God.
God could take him back inside him again if he wanted too.No one can understand, that after all that;
God is still ONE GOD.wakeup.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 01 2013,12:24) Quote 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. and it is not saying what you are saying.
Kerwin,
IT SAYS: but Christ is all, and in all.
NOW EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS!
IT'S NO USE TRYING TO EVADE MY QUESTION!
SO EXPAND ON THAT TEXT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Charles,I think you mean expound on it though all I plan to do is summarize it as I believe I have previously.
Paul is teaching that Jesus Christ is all to believers and that Jesus Christ is in him. If I remember rightly the whole teaching is made in address against sectarianism in the Church.
Unbelievers are not in Christ nor is Christ in them. He is not all to them either.
It looks like expounded some as well.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 30 2013,19:43) …you believe in this creature that is not testified as being part of the creation in the OT, who you say was transformed to a human being, is the same person who came in the flesh.
Can you show me where I've contradicted myself?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 30 2013,19:43) You also claim death was in the world before it entered through Adam's sin.
I've never made any such claim. You believe Adam was created as an immortal being, consisting of something called “spiritual flesh”. All I've done is tell you that if scripture is silent about it, so should you be.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 30 2013,19:43) It is not written that a being called the word transformed to a human.
Actually it is…….. all throughout the NT.jammin,
This post will be locked when it reaches 9,999 posts. You might want to start a new “Who is the WORD – part 2″……… so your name stays with the topic you started.
Very few threads get that many posts here. You hit on a pretty hot topic with this one.
Mike,
Either this creature that you believe in was turned into flesh or he came in the flesh not both. Make up your mind.
Another is you claim sin entered the word through Adam and death through sin while you also state death was already in the world.
And you again claim the body could return to the dust it came from before God cursed it to return to the the dust it came from.
You also claim spirits can eat and be touched while claiming Jesus gave sound tests to prove he was not a spirit.
In addition you claim Jesus was Lord of all things in heaven and earth before he was made Lord of all things in heaven and earth.
You claim Jesus is an angels that will rule the world to come and that angels will not rule the world to come.
You claim Jesus was both conceived in his mother's womb and that he was conceived before the heaven and earth began.
You claim Jesus had his inheritance before the world began and received it later.
You seem not to look at what you are saying and how connect to other things you claim to believe.
Mike,
Quote I've never made any such claim. You believe Adam was created as an immortal being, consisting of something called “spiritual flesh”. All I've done is tell you that if scripture is silent about it, so should you be. I see, you believe a body that does not die is mortal. Try something else as that does not wash.
Mike,
Quote Actually it is…….. all throughout the NT. So according to you God did not mention such a thing to the Prophets and the Patriarchates who were expecting a human Messiah and not an angel one. One that was the Son of David, as for the flesh.
I don't see it in the NT either but you think it is there.
Wakeup,
Quote Believers are flesh: therfore the *spirit* is in them.
But Jesus *is spirit*: and therefore he as a spirit is *IN* the father.That is not what is written. What is written is that we will become one as Jesus and God are one. Those that are one as Jesus is one is those that are in them and they are in those believers. The word that puts the whole thing in conflict with your words is “as”.
Jesus was mortal flesh when he declared that God was in him and that he was in God.
It is for this reason is with two to three that have gathered together in his name. He is with them and in them by his Spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 02 2013,20:12) Wakeup, Quote Believers are flesh: therfore the *spirit* is in them.
But Jesus *is spirit*: and therefore he as a spirit is *IN* the father.That is not what is written. What is written is that we will become one as Jesus and God are one. Those that are one as Jesus is one is those that are in them and they are in those believers. The word that puts the whole thing in conflict with your words is “as”.
Jesus was mortal flesh when he declared that God was in him and that he was in God.
It is for this reason is with two to three that have gathered together in his name. He is with them and in them by his Spirit.
Kerwin.This is because you still believe that Jesus
is still in the flesh.Denying clear scriptures.
The appearing of Jesus to his apostles is your *stumbling* block. Not understanding,that he *has* to appear in the flesh
to show them his wounds and touch.That it is not just a dream, or a vision,or some other deceiving spirit.At the coming,every eye shall see,they must see him coming
He can do it at will. Does not mean that He is flesh,for he is made a quickening spirit; a life giving spirit.
He was born of the spirit, and He is spirit, like the wind.Anyone with the spirit of Christ *in them* walk's his path.
As for Jesus; he came from inside God out,next to him, as God's image. He brough forth his image,which is his Word.
And they had glory together.God's Word is his will/mind.
All words starts in the mind.And he went back sitting next to his God.
No person can sit next to God and Jesus,for it is the Father's
decision,who can.Flesh and bone can not sit next to God,
For God is a spirit.Remember the woman asking Jesus if her sons
could sit next to Him and God?The doctrine of flesh and bone is to cover up isaiah 11. and 65.
Where the jews are in the flesh in the kingdom.This is where they have come to a corner;so have to invent something.
watch for the cunning preachers and book writers.wakeup.
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