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Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,03:44) Mike, The teaching that all that is created was created by God's Word is OT and accepted by the many Judea-Christian traditions. The same is not true of your chosen interpretation of those New Testament passages you name. Your interpretation of them is part of a new religion, a religion not mentioned by either the patriarchs or the prophets. Neither would the Bereans find that interpretation in the OT when they tested Paul's words.
The Bereans would have found that interpretation in Proverbs 8 and Micah 5 – to name a couple.But let me ask you this………….. Do you think that the NT sheds NO new light on the OT? Do you think that since the OT explains EVERYTHING, John 1:18 is false, and Jesus didn't offer us any NEW information that wasn't in the OT?
BTW, there is hardly any other way to interpret those NT scriptures, Kerwin. Col 1:16 says that ALL THINGS, in heaven and on earth, were created through Jesus.
1 Cor 8:6 says that ALL THINGS are FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus. It stands to reason that the ALL THINGS that came FROM God are the very same ALL THINGS that came THROUGH Jesus.
And Hebrews 1:2 says that God created the ages THROUGH Jesus.
So exactly which other way can we interpret these teachings WITHOUT changing “all things” to “new things” like you do?
What other interpretation is there if we simply and faithfully accept the words as they were written?
Quote (jammin @ Sep. 26 2013,21:08) kerwin, GOd spoke his word and not Word
there is a huge difference between the word Word and word.
study hard
Right on. Just because Jesus is called by his title “the Word of God” in a few scriptures is not to say that the phrase “the word of God” ALWAYS refers to a living being.The king of Abyssinia also had a spokesman who relayed the king's speeches to the people of Abyssinia. That spokesman was called Kal Hatze, which means “the word of the king”.
But that is not to say that every time the people of Abyssinia heard the phrase “the word of the king”, it automatically referred to this spokesman. Most of the time, it probably referred simply to commands that the king had spoken.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,04:33) No: Gods in his*mind* spoke to his Word in
wireless mode,and the Word does the job.
So then the Word has always been a living entity OTHER THAN God Himself?wup
Quote I thought we were about
the bringing back of the jews?
The grafting back.
Of which you disagree.
To you the jews are finished.wakeup.
you got lost ,its in the context
mikeboll64,Sep. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I see no scriptural or logical reason for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. Mike,
I agree, and all of us on heaven net should do like wise, for the simple reason that :
THE GENUINE REASON THAT JESUS LOWERED HIMSELF AND BECAME MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD WAS ,
THAT WE OURSELVES THROUGH HIS DEATH, AND THE POURING OF HIS DIVINE BLOOD, COULD BE RAISED BY HIS UNFATHOMABLE MYRIAD KINDS OF GRACES, AND DIVINE MERCY, AND BECOME LIKE HIM AS A SUBSTANCE!
KEEP IN MIND THAT IT WAS NOT THE SAME FLESH AND BLOOD AS OURS, SINCE WE ARE SATANIC WORLDLY SUBSTANCE, AND HE WAS HEAVENLY GOD SUBSTANCE, SO COMPLETELY OPPOSITE IN EVERY SENSE!
SO NEVER AND NEVER AGAIN JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD, THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD, WOULD EVER BECOME IN THE SAME FLESH AND BLOOD SUBSTANCE AND MANIFEST HIMSELF IN THIS WORLD OR IN ANY PLANET, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS AS HE IS NOW HE IS IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER.
AND NOT EVEN WHEN HE COMES IN THIS WORLD FOR THE SECOND TIME, BECAUSE HE WOULD BE COMPLETELY HIDDEN IN A CLOUD TILL ALL WOULD BE JUDGED, OTHERWISE HUMANS WOULD SIMPLY DISINTEGRATE, SINCE THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE JUDGED AND NOT YET IN FULL GLORY!
THE REASON THAT HE WOULD DESTROY ALL HIS ENEMIES IN A INSTANT!
JESUS' BODY IS GLORIFIED IN SPIRITUAL FLESH, THIS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT SATAN OWNED THE FLESH AND BLOOD SUBSTANCE, THROUGH ADAM'S SIN!
SO JESUS OVER TOOK THAT SUBSTANCE, AND GLORIFIED IT!
ALTHOUGH AS I SAID IT WAS NOT LIKE OURS, SATANIC!
BUT HIS GENUINE DIVINE FLESH AND BLOOD SUBSTANCE!
THE FLESH AND BLOOD WAS ESTABLISHED THROUGH SATAN'S PRESENCE IN ADAM'S BODY, AND ADAM'S SOUL WAS SUNKEN DEAD IN IT!
SO JESUS NEVER HAD THAT KIND OF FLESH AND BLOOD!
HE WAS DIVINE THROUGHOUT!
HEREUNDER IS CLEAR ENOUGH:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and effectual, and
MORE PIERCING than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division (SEPARATION)of the
SOUL (GOD'S) AND SPIRIT (SATAN'S)
OF THE JOINTS AND MARROW
SO JESUS NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT HE HAD A SOUL, WITHIN A FLESH AND BLOOD BODY AND THERE WAS SATAN'S PRESENCE, IN HIS SOUL,WITHIN HIS BLOOD, IN ORDER TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN,
IN FACT THE WORD WAS NEVERTHELESS SEPARATED, WAS COMPLETELY DETACHED FROM SATAN'S EVIL ELEMENTS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ Sep. 28 2013,11:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2013,01:29) I see no scriptural or logical reason for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. Mike,
I agree, and all of us on heaven net should do like wise………
Charles,I appreciate the fact that you continue to copy and paste only the part of the other person's post that you are going to respond to. Thank you for that!
And I'm glad we agree that Jesus is a spirit being in heaven, and not a flesh being.
But as for the rest of your post, you speak of “satanic flesh” and “divine flesh”. I don't know either of these terms from any scripture, and therefore cannot comment on your claims about such things.
Mike,
I as a brother in Christ must,and should share an insight of this scripture hereunder, since it CONTAINS HIDDEN TRUTH! REGARDING JESUS' DIVINITY!
AS IT IS, IT IS CLEAR THAT SATAN TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT!BUT WHEN ACTUALLY THIS EVENT OCCURRED?
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.
SATAN HIMSELF TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, AGAINST HIS WILL!!!
IN ORDER FOR JESUS TO DIE ON THE CROSS, SATAN, THE OWNER AND POWER OF DEATH, HAD TO ENTER JESUS' SOUL, IN ORDER FOR JESUS TO DIE HIS DEATH!
BUT DUE TO THE FACT THAT JESUS MADE SATAN AWARE THAT HE WAS THE REDEEMER, THE WORD, HIS CREATOR! SATAN HAD TO DO THIS AGAINST HIS WILL,
SO THE MOMENT SATAN FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER CAME IN CONTACT WITH JESUS, OTHERWISE JESUS COULD HAVE NEVER DIED HIS DEATH,
HE BECAME NOT ONLY COMPLETELY USELESS, BUT JESUS'S SOUL THROUGH THAT SAME SATAN'S ATTRIBUTION ,TRANSFORMED ITSELF INTO A GLORIFIED ANGEL OF LIGHT!
BUT ACTUALLY SATAN HIMSELF TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, SINCE IT WAS SATAN HIMSELF WHO MADE CONTACT! SIMPLY SUICIDE!
I WONDER WHY JESUS SAID:
I AM THIRST AND HE WAS GIVEN VINEGAR( SATAN'S WINE, SPIRIT)
THE ABOVE IS DETAILED IN JOB 20:20 HEREUNDER:
JOB 20:20 And yet his belly was not filled:( HE WAS NEVER SATISFIED)
AND WHEN HE HATH THE THINGS HE COVETED, HE SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO POSSESS THEM!
GOT IT:
ALTHOUGH SATAN'S POWER WAS DEATH, HIS GENUINE PROCEDURE, AND WAS WAITING FOR THAT FUNDAMENTAL CLIMAX OF JUSTIFICATION THE DIRECT CLASH BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, TO DETERMINE WHO IS MOST POWERFUL, HE WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO FUNCTION, HE COULDN'T EVEN MADE USE OF IT!
THEREFORE SINCE WHENEVER SATAN USED HIS POWER OF DEATH, HE ONLY DID SO THROUGH THE POWER OF THE WORD HIDDEN IN HIM, OBVIOUS, THAT DECISIVE TIME THE WORD, LEFT SATAN'S SPIRIT TO MAKE HIM USELESS!
SO IN ONE INSTANT, ON SATAN'S CONTACT, JESUS' SOUL, THE HOLY SPIRIT,IN FULL GLORY OF THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE FLESH BODY,THROUGH JESUS PERFECT LIFE, LEFT JESUS BODY,AND WENT TO HELL CARRYING WITH HIM SATAN'S SPIRIT, AND THE WORD JESUS' SPIRIT LEFT SATAN'S SPIRIT, ENTERED JESUS' BODY, AND MAINTAINED THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF HIS BODY!WHICH WAS ALREADY IN PROGRESS WHILE STILL ALIVE,ALSO THROUGH HIS PERFECT LIFE!
SO THE SOUL, THE HOLY SPIRIT, RECEIVED THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE FLESH BODY, EX JESUS' SPIRIT!
AND THE FLESH BODY EX JESUS' SPIRIT, RECEIVED THE ATTRIBUTES OF HIS SOUL, THE HOLY SPIRIT!
THIS IS STATED IN:
John 17:10 And all my things (CARNAL) are thine, and thine ( SPIRITUAL) are mine; and I am glorified in them.
SO THAT WAS THE KIND OF FLESH AND BLOODBODY THAT JESUS OWNED IN ORDER TO CARRY HIS DIVINE SOUL OF GOD! THE HOLY SPIRIT IN FULL POWER
FOR THAT PARTICULAR VITAL MOMENT FOR OUR SALVATION!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2013,02:05) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,04:33) No: Gods in his*mind* spoke to his Word in
wireless mode,and the Word does the job.
So then the Word has always been a living entity OTHER THAN God Himself?
Yes; But remember; He was brought forth out of God
before the world and the angels were made.
In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was *WITH* God, **after** he was brought forth.**Before** he was brought forth, the Word was *IN*God.This makes God one.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2013,20:40) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,03:20) 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. In this verse God's Word(Command) is treated as a being that has performed the act of framing.
And do you believe this verse describes a LITERAL being that has performed an act God sent him to do? YES or NO?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,03:20) Isaiah 55:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Once again Scripture treats the Word as a person………
And do you believe this passage describes a LITERAL being that left God's mouth, did some stuff, and then returned back to God? YES or NO?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,03:20) I am not sure why you have such a hard time understanding these things.
Because sometimes you claim that it is poetic language, and other times you claim that this word is some “archangel” or something.Which is it? Is the spoken word that comes out of God's mouth LITERALLY a living being individual from God Himself or not?
Mike,In no passage, including John 1, is the Word a being. Even when Philo called it an archangel he was not saying it is a being. Scripture, and Philo emulating it, treats it as a being for reasons of communications. I do the same.
Mike,
Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2013,21:02) Quote (jammin @ Sep. 26 2013,21:08) kerwin, GOd spoke his word and not Word
there is a huge difference between the word Word and word.
study hard
Right on. Just because Jesus is called by his title “the Word of God” in a few scriptures is not to say that the phrase “the word of God” ALWAYS refers to a living being.The king of Abyssinia also had a spokesman who relayed the king's speeches to the people of Abyssinia. That spokesman was called Kal Hatze, which means “the word of the king”.
But that is not to say that every time the people of Abyssinia heard the phrase “the word of the king”, it automatically referred to this spokesman. Most of the time, it probably referred simply to commands that the king had spoken.
Mike,You already know that capitalizing is the translators choice according to what they subjectively think is best. Do you think they are without error?
Note: After the right on you made a point different than Jammin's and I am not addressing that.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,09:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin.Where is understanding?
The Word of God as a being with wisdom brought forth *OUT OF* God,before the world was. Was *WITH* God.
And the Word *WAS* God.*This is when he still was *IN* God*.He/Word is the *creator* on God's command/will.
He came to earth as a man.
He has given away his power as a creator,
and humbled himself. He emptied all his power.Because of his obedience to his Father;now God has given him *ALL* authority;*meaning* He does not have to ask his Father,for he can make his own decisions.
His authotity will start in his kingdom for a thousand years.
And after that He will hand it back to his Father.
And the Father will be all in all.wakeup.
Mike,
Quote God is not literally the emotion of love. He is a being that embodies the idea of love to the fullest extent possible. Jesus is not literally the light. He is the being that embodies the idea of the light to the fullest extent possible.
and
Jesus is not literally the word. He is the being that embodies the idea of the word to the fullest extent possible.
The Word is not the Light the Light is in the Word. Jesus is the being that embodies the idea of both to the fullest extent possible.
Quote
1. Was the personified logos “the true light that came into the world”? YES or NO?2 Was Jesus “the true light that came into the world”? YES or NO?
3. Was John the Baptist sent to testify about none other than the personified logos? YES or NO?
4. Was John the Baptist sent to testify about none other than Jesus Christ? YES or NO?
5. Does it really affect the points I'm making if Jesus and the personified logos aren't LITERALLY “light”, but instead metaphorically called “light”?
1) Yes, That which is literally the light came into the world and so that which is literally the logos in which it was also came into the world. see note.
2) Yes, Jesus is the being that embodies the idea of the literal true light that came into the world to the fullest extent possible.
3 & 4) Yes, John testified that Jesus was the Christ, the being that embodies the idea of the both the light and the logos to the fullest extent possible.
5) Yes, as you use the claim that at one time Jesus is called by the name of the Word to justify inserting him into John 1 which is speaking of another time. I know of no instance when Scripture states Jesus it called by the name of the light.
Quote Doesn't the point still remain that the same “light” associated things are said about both the personified logos AND Jesus Christ? Because THAT is the point I'm making, Kerwin. The point, in case you missed it, is that the SAME THINGS that are said about the personified logos are ALSO said about Jesus Christ. Do you understand the point I'm making now? And do you ACKNOWLEDGE that ALL of the things said about the personified logos in John 1 are ALSO said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus Christ? In fact, none of those things are said about anyone else EXCEPT the personified logos and Jesus Christ.
As soon as the Word was made flesh Jesus became the being that embodies the idea of the word to the fullest extent possible.
Note: The AKJV and certain other versions do not seem to state the logos came into the world but the ones I checked were older and their speech can be confusing.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,04:53) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,09:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin.Where is understanding?
The Word of God as a being with wisdom brought forth *OUT OF* God,before the world was. Was *WITH* God.
And the Word *WAS* God.*This is when he still was *IN* God*.He/Word is the *creator* on God's command/will.
He came to earth as a man.
He has given away his power as a creator,
and humbled himself. He emptied all his power.Because of his obedience to his Father;now God has given him *ALL* authority;*meaning* He does not have to ask his Father,for he can make his own decisions.
His authotity will start in his kingdom for a thousand years.
And after that He will hand it back to his Father.
And the Father will be all in all.wakeup.
Wakeup,I was addressing Mike's teaching not yours. Yours seems to consistently treat God's Word as an actual being and not as something that is spoken, thought, wrote, or expressed in another way. The Word that is represented with characteristics of a being in order to teach certain things but not to be thought of as a being.
So your chosen teaching is Jesus emptied himself of power and took on the form of a servant; who was not empty of power, as is revealed by the miracles he did.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,10:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,04:53) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,09:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin.Where is understanding?
The Word of God as a being with wisdom brought forth *OUT OF* God,before the world was. Was *WITH* God.
And the Word *WAS* God.*This is when he still was *IN* God*.He/Word is the *creator* on God's command/will.
He came to earth as a man.
He has given away his power as a creator,
and humbled himself. He emptied all his power.Because of his obedience to his Father;now God has given him *ALL* authority;*meaning* He does not have to ask his Father,for he can make his own decisions.
His authotity will start in his kingdom for a thousand years.
And after that He will hand it back to his Father.
And the Father will be all in all.wakeup.
Wakeup,I was addressing Mike's teaching not yours. Yours seems to consistently treat God's Word as an actual being and not as something that is spoken, thought, wrote, or expressed in another way. The Word that is represented with characteristics of a being in order to teach certain things but not to be thought of as a being.
So your chosen teaching is Jesus emptied himself of power and took on the form of a servant; who was not empty of power, as is revealed by the miracles he did.
Kerwin.You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak *not of myself*:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, **he doeth the works**.Remember;the *Father* did all the works,not Jesus.
wakeup.
kerwin,Sep. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus is not literally the light. The Word is not the Light Kerwin,
I am afraid you are too far away from the truth, WITH REGARDS TO JESUS CHRIST!
NOW READ AND REFLECT:
COLOSSIANS 3:11……………….. BUT CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALLWHAT IS THE MEANING OF CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALL?
ISN'T IT AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL THAT JESUS AS THE WORD THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR GOD IS ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION,
AND IN ALL
THE ENTIRE CREATION?
SO HOW DO WE HAVE LIGHT? OBVIOUS THROUGH THE SUN! NO?
SO IF CHRIST IS ALL. AND CHRIST IS IN ALL, ISN'T IT CLEAR ENOUGH THAT CHRIST'S SPIRIT IS DEFINITELY IN , AND IS THE UNIQUE LIGHT THAT EXIST IN OUR GALAXY? THE SUN?
AND IF JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD WHICH EMANATED FROM THE FATHER,
THE WORD IS LIGHT AS WELL
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing.
THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU, ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE!
SO JESUS' WORDS ARE SPIRIT, OBVIOUS DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER WITHIN JESUS' SOUL, GOD'S MOUTHPIECE
NOW READ:
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire
SO:
IF GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, AND THIS FIRE IS OUR SUN, AND OUR SUN IS THE ONLY SOURCE OF LIGHT THROUGH ITS FIRE, AND ALL OUR GALAXY IS SUBJECT TO THE SUN,
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT:
THE FIRE IS THE FATHER’S SPIRIT, AND
THE LIGHT WHICH EMANATES FROM THE SUN IS JESUS CHRIST’S SPIRIT,
THE STARS WHICH ARE ALSO LIGHTS, THEREFORE GOD’S HOLY HOSTS!
THE MOON WHICH ILLUMINES OUR WORLD AT NIGHT, IS THE ONLY LIGHT SOURCE, ALSO THROUGH THE SUN, THEREFORE THE LIGHT BEARER, LUCIFER'S SPIRIT, AND THE PLANETS ARE ALL GOD’S ENEMIES'SPIRITS,
SO WHETHWER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT, ALL OUR GALAXY IS THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD AS:
THE WORD THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD!
SO IT IS THE ACTUAL SPIRIT OF CHRIST SINCE CHRIST IS
ALL, AND ALSO IN ALL!
NOW READ AND REFLECT:
Matthew 9:3 And his garments became SHINING and exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller upon earth can make white.
Isaiah 60:19 Thou shalt no more have the SUN FOR YOUR LIGHT BY DAY , neither shall the brightness of the moon enlighten thee:
BUT THE LORD (JESUS CHRIST) SHALL BE UNTO YOU FOR AN EVERLASTING LIGHT and YOUR GOD for YOUR glory.
Rev: 22:5 And night shall be no more: and they shall not need the light of the lamp, nor the light of the sun, because the LORD GOD SHALL ENLIGHTEN THEM, and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, and
INHABITETH LIGHT INACCESSIBLE,
whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and empire everlasting. Amen.
NOW IS THERE ANY DOUBT THAT THE ACTUAL LIGHT IS JESUS CHRIST? SINCE :
HE WILL REPLACE THE SUN?
HE INHABIT THE LIGHT ITSELF
HE WILL ALSO MAKE HIS CREATURES LIGHT.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,07:26) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,10:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 29 2013,04:53) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 29 2013,09:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin.Where is understanding?
The Word of God as a being with wisdom brought forth *OUT OF* God,before the world was. Was *WITH* God.
And the Word *WAS* God.*This is when he still was *IN* God*.He/Word is the *creator* on God's command/will.
He came to earth as a man.
He has given away his power as a creator,
and humbled himself. He emptied all his power.Because of his obedience to his Father;now God has given him *ALL* authority;*meaning* He does not have to ask his Father,for he can make his own decisions.
His authotity will start in his kingdom for a thousand years.
And after that He will hand it back to his Father.
And the Father will be all in all.wakeup.
Wakeup,I was addressing Mike's teaching not yours. Yours seems to consistently treat God's Word as an actual being and not as something that is spoken, thought, wrote, or expressed in another way. The Word that is represented with characteristics of a being in order to teach certain things but not to be thought of as a being.
So your chosen teaching is Jesus emptied himself of power and took on the form of a servant; who was not empty of power, as is revealed by the miracles he did.
Kerwin.You are ignoring jesis words again and again.
He said that *HE* had glory with the Father
*before the world was*.John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak *not of myself*:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, **he doeth the works**.Remember;the *Father* did all the works,not Jesus.
wakeup.
Wakeup,God lives in Jesus through his Spirit and before the world God possessed Jesus' glory and held it until the time he would come to inherit it. Hence:
John 17:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
and
Hebrews 1:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 28 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 29 2013,02:05)
So then the Word has always been a living entity OTHER THAN God Himself?
Yes; But remember; He was brought forth out of God
before the world and the angels were made.
All things were brought forth from God, Wakeup. What is the other option?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,16:19) Mike, In no passage, including John 1, is the Word a being. Even when Philo called it an archangel he was not saying it is a being. Scripture, and Philo emulating it, treats it as a being for reasons of communications. I do the same.
Well,We KNOW that the Word became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son. We KNOW that the Word will ride on a white horse and fight against Satan and his hordes.
Those things sound like a BEING to me, Kerwin.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 28 2013,16:28) Mike, Quote .. for Jesus to ever empty himself and take on that lowly flesh form again. That does not make sense as a body is a vessel and it is the contents of a vessel you empty not the vessel.
Kerwin,You exist within a wonderful body made of flesh, blood and bones. That body enables you to live on earth in relative comfort.
But, could you empty yourself and be made in the likeness of a cockroach? Sure, if it was God's will.
Would a change of body also be included in that emptying of yourself? Of course it would.
Could you empty yourself and be made of paper, instead of flesh, blood, and bones? Yes. Would the body be including in that emptying of yourself? Of course it would.
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