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Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,20:12) Mike, He indirectly denied their accusation by shifting the meaning of God, so that instead of meaning he was Jehovah it just meant he was superior to the gods.
And what exactly was their accusation, Kerwin? That Jesus claimed to be God Almighty Himself? When did Jesus do such a thing for them to make such a claim? Never, right?On the other hand, Jesus had just explained to them that no one has ever seen God except for him. And he had just told them that he came down from heaven to do the will of God, who sent him.
These kinds of claims that Jesus DID make would cause the Jews to believe he was making himself out to be a god – but not God Himself.
And if their accusation was that he was making himself out to be a god, then the answer he gave them was right in line, and exactly on point. Because his answer explained that even others were a god in the inspired scriptures – so why not the one who was even more important than those other gods.
Mike,
It was a false accusation and the Jews did not explain their reasoning but Jesus did by pointing out why he was superior to those called gods.
Mike,
Quote Just like the above, it is simply poetic and metaphorical speaking, Kerwin. But let's examine your understanding that “the word of God” IS something other than simply the words that God spoke: It is my understanding that the Jewish culture of John's day and previously was poetically and metaphysically inclined unlike the majority of the people of this day. Jesus often employs poetic and metaphysical words in his teachings and even those of time found them unclear at times.
The Samaritan woman at the well is one example.
John is just speaking poetically/metaphysically about the Word, the Light there in, and related things in the first part of John chapter 1.
Hi all,
Was just reading.Deuteronomy
30:11 For this commandment which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
30:12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, “Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?”
30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, “Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?”
30:14 But the word is very near to you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it.
Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,13:12) Mike, It was a false accusation and the Jews did not explain their reasoning but Jesus did by pointing out why he was superior to those called gods.
Kerwin,If the Jews claimed Jesus was making himself out to be “God”, and you say it was a false accusation, then how do you conclude by saying Jesus agreed with them that he was “God” compared to the “gods” of the scriptures?
It seems you keep flip-flopping for some reason.
Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,13:20) It is my understanding that the Jewish culture of John's day and previously was poetically and metaphysically inclined…………….
Kerwin,There were three direct questions in my last post on the previous page. Please address them in a direct manner.
(It seems lately that I'm bringing up very good points in the interest of solving some of our disagreements, but you are just ignoring most of those points and posting whatever you want.)
Mike,
Quote Just like the above, it is simply poetic and metaphorical speaking, Kerwin. But let's examine your understanding that “the word of God” IS something other than simply the words that God spoke: You are misunderstanding me when I say God's Word is more than his spoken utterance. I am simply saying his Word is not as the Word of a man. His Word has power and authority while the word of a man has neither unless God grants that it does. In addition God's Word can be spoken, written, thought, and put into action.
Your questions are based on a misunderstanding.
kerwin,July wrote:[/quote]
Quote The question I have is “what does God mean when he says his word returns to him after it's purpose is completed?” Kerwin,
THIS IS THE RIGHT SCRIPTURE:
So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
itSHALL NOT RETURE TO ME VOID
SO NOT AFTER ITS PURPOSE IS COMPLETED, BECAUSE COMPLETION WOULD BE ACHIEVED ON THE LAST DAY!
NOW NOT TO RETURN TO ME VOID MEANS, THAT :
THE WORD LEFT THE FATHER'S MOUTH, genesis 1:3, IT CREATED ALL, REDEEMED ALL, AND RESTORED ALL INTO
A GLORIFIED BODY BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN ORDER FOR THE FATHER TO ABIDE WITHIN
SO THE WORD RETURNED TO THE FATHER NOT AS A SPIRIT, LIKE WHEN HE PRONOUNCED IT, THEREFORE IT WOULD HAVE REMAINED VOID BUT IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!
AND ALMIGHTY GOD IS THE GOD OF ALL FLESH THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD
SO COMPLETION WOULD BE WHEN THE FATHER WOULD BE ALL IN ALL ON THE LAT DAY!
NOW READ THE REST:
but it shall accomplish that which
I please, OBVIOUS THE GLORIFIED SPIRIT AND FLESH BODYand it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
SO IT IS STILL IN ITS PROSPERRING PROCESS!
WHICH IS THE UNIFICATION OF ALL SPIRITUAL CREATURES AND CARNAL CREATURES AS ONE BODY IN JESUS CHRIST GOD'S KINGDOM!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
,
Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,22:00) You are misunderstanding me when I say God's Word is more than his spoken utterance.
Hmmmm………… I just went by what you actually SAID, Kerwin. If there is a misunderstanding, surely it was caused by how you worded your understanding.So, are you now saying that “The Word of God” IS simply words that God utters, and nothing more?
Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,22:00) In addition God's Word can be spoken, written, thought, and put into action.
So can man's word.Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2013,22:00) Your questions are based on a misunderstanding.
Just the same, I await your DIRECT and HONEST answers to all three of them.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,22:07) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,20:06) Mike, Elisha's word went to God and accomplished it's purpose.
I agree that we could metaphorically and poetically say that Elisha's word accomplished it's purpose. But just because we personify the word of Elisha – making it sound like it was an entity separate from Elisha, complete with it's own will – the fact remains that this is just poetic speaking, and “the word of Elisha” was never anything except words that Elisha spoke out of his mouth.Are we agreed on this point?
Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,20:06) The question I have is “what does God mean when he says his word returns to him after it's purpose is completed?”
Just like the above, it is simply poetic and metaphorical speaking, Kerwin. But let's examine your understanding that “the word of God” IS something other than simply the words that God spoke:1. That would mean that “the word of God” is an entity of itself, separate from God Himself……… an entity with a will of it's own. (Consider that this “word” could not possibly RETURN TO God if it was not something OTHER THAN God……… something that can come to God and leave from Him.) Do you believe these things?
2. Consider Isaiah 45:23, where God's word goes out from Him – but does not return AT ALL. In MY understanding, this is just another instance of poetic speaking, and means that whatever God says will be done, will in fact be done. But in YOUR understanding, this calls for yet ANOTHER separate entity that DOESN'T come back to the God who sent it forth. So now you have at least TWO “Words of God” – one that does return to Him, and one that doesn't. Is this what you believe?
Mike,Yes, no, and no.
Mike,
If you removed the divine attributes from it then it is no different from a man's or an angel's word.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,08:11) Quote (abe @ July 27 2013,23:46) What is the Word of Christ?
The teachings Christ gave to the people of the world. The words he spoke. The lessens he taught. The understandings he shared with us.
Hi Mike,Jn.14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24″He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.
and the Word which you hear is Not Mine, but the *Father’s* who sent Me.
What is the Word of Christ?
Peace brother…….
Abe, the Fathers words.
That is what I was trying to tell Mike.
The Father's words were the words of the Father, spoken through the mouth of Jesus Christ.
The word, or words…the logos….were God's own words.
God is one.
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
But, it doesn't have to be so complicated. Just believed simply.
True?
Good point you made.Abe and 2besee………….Right oin brothers. Jesus himself was never the word of God, he simply relayed God's Words to us as God who is Spirit was abiding “IN” him was directing Him to do, as Jesus said over and over. No mans Words are apart from Himself, unless he is quoting someone. God and his word are one and the same thing, it makes no difference who “QUOTES” them they (Gods words) are still his own Words. IMO
peace and love to you both and yours………………………………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,20:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,22:07) I agree that we could metaphorically and poetically say that Elisha's word accomplished it's purpose. But just because we personify the word of Elisha – making it sound like it was an entity separate from Elisha, complete with it's own will – the fact remains that this is just poetic speaking, and “the word of Elisha” was never anything except words that Elisha spoke out of his mouth. Are we agreed on this point?
Mike,Yes
Great. Then the fact that God's spoken words are sometimes poetically personified doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, just words that God has spoken.On the other hand, I believe we agree that “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13 refers to a title that God's spokesman Jesus holds……… and NOT to literal words that God has spoken. Is this a correct assumption on my part?
Quote (abe @ July 29 2013,21:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,08:11) Quote (abe @ July 27 2013,23:46) What is the Word of Christ?
The teachings Christ gave to the people of the world. The words he spoke. The lessens he taught. The understandings he shared with us.
Hi Mike,Jn.14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24″He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.
and the Word which you hear is Not Mine, but the *Father’s* who sent Me.
What is the Word of Christ?
Peace brother…….
Same answer as above, Abe.The word of Christ is the teachings, understandings, parables, and prophesies that Jesus gave to his disciples on earth.
Of course those teachings, understandings, parables, and prophesies came to Jesus from God before they came from Jesus to us.
Quote (2besee @ July 30 2013,02:11) But, it doesn't have to be so complicated. Just believed simply.
You are correct that it is not complicated, 2B.There is only ONE who EVER dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son. That ONE is called “the Word” in John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, and Revelation 19:13.
It's not hard at all. Work it back to front if it helps:
Who is the ONLY ONE who EVER dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2013,05:20) Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,20:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,22:07) I agree that we could metaphorically and poetically say that Elisha's word accomplished it's purpose. But just because we personify the word of Elisha – making it sound like it was an entity separate from Elisha, complete with it's own will – the fact remains that this is just poetic speaking, and “the word of Elisha” was never anything except words that Elisha spoke out of his mouth. Are we agreed on this point?
Mike,Yes
Great. Then the fact that God's spoken words are sometimes poetically personified doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, just words that God has spoken.On the other hand, I believe we agree that “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13 refers to a title that God's spokesman Jesus holds……… and NOT to literal words that God has spoken. Is this a correct assumption on my part?
Mike,Rev 19:13 is poetic but it is stating a person is called by the name of the Word of God at that time. The Word of God is the same Word that is previously poetically personalized but now a person incarnates it just like the same person incarnates Faithful and True, two other names he has.
I do not see Faithful, True, or Word of God as titles so much as a description of who Jesus is.
Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2013,10:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2013,05:20) Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2013,20:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,22:07) I agree that we could metaphorically and poetically say that Elisha's word accomplished it's purpose. But just because we personify the word of Elisha – making it sound like it was an entity separate from Elisha, complete with it's own will – the fact remains that this is just poetic speaking, and “the word of Elisha” was never anything except words that Elisha spoke out of his mouth. Are we agreed on this point?
Mike,Yes
Great. Then the fact that God's spoken words are sometimes poetically personified doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, just words that God has spoken.On the other hand, I believe we agree that “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13 refers to a title that God's spokesman Jesus holds……… and NOT to literal words that God has spoken. Is this a correct assumption on my part?
Mike,Rev 19:13 is poetic but it is stating a person is called by the name of the Word of God at that time. The Word of God is the same Word that is previously poetically personalized but now a person incarnates it just like the same person incarnates Faithful and True, two other names he has.
I do not see Faithful, True, or Word of God as titles so much as a description of who Jesus is.
buy you know what kerwin i cant see in rev 19.13 your words WILL BE CALLED the Word of God.
when are you going to publish your own version?Hi Jammin,
What does the “White Horse” symbolize that The Word is riding on?
In other words what is the “White Horse” of Revelation 19:11?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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