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Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2013,12:40) Mike, 1) Jesus did deny the claim……………
How do you figure?Did Jesus say, “I never made myself out to be God”? NOPE.
Instead, he pointed to lesser ones who were called gods in scripture, and then said, “If they were called gods, then WHY NOT ME?”
Notice that he did not say, “If they were called God, then why not me?”
Are you beginning to see the difference yet?
Your understanding calls for Jesus saying, “Since these other ones were called gods, then there's no problem with me being called God Himself.”
Why in the world would Jesus allow himself to be called God – as in ALMIGHTY GOD?
And why would any Jew, knowing that God cannot be seen by human eyes, think Jesus was making himself out to be God Almighty – who can't be seen with human eyes?
Are we getting there yet, Kerwin?
(On a side note, I'm still waiting for you to tell me exactly what/who “the Word” is – so we can go through the first 4 chapters of John and see if your understanding lines up.)
Mike,
Quote Your understanding calls for Jesus saying, “Since these other ones were called gods, then there's no problem with me being called God Himself.” What he said amounts to him saying “Since these that merely received the Word are called gods then it is only appropriate to call the one Jehovah sanctified and sent into the world God.”
There is no problem with applying Jehovah's title of God to Jesus just as there is no problem of applying his title of Lord to Jesus.
“The Words” that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)
I have given them “Thy Word” (John 17:14)
“Thy Word” is truth (John 17:17)“So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)Quote (jammin @ July 26 2013,07:48) out of the topic. JEsus is the word
Jammin,So you believe Jesus is the bible.
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:10) Quote (jammin @ July 26 2013,07:48) out of the topic. JEsus is the word
Jammin,So you believe Jesus is the bible.
“The Lord gave “THE WORD”: great was the
company of those that published it.” (Psalms 68:11)“So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,13:16) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:10) Quote (jammin @ July 26 2013,07:48) out of the topic. JEsus is the word
Jammin,So you believe Jesus is the bible.
“The Lord gave “THE WORD”: great was the
company of those that published it.” (Psalms 68:11)“So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)
“So mightily grew “THE WORD” of God and prevailed.” (Acts 19:20)Ed wrote:[/quote]
Quote “So mightily grew “THE WORD” of God and prevailed.” (Acts 19:20) Edj,
THE WORD IS A SPIRIT, THE SON’S SPIRIT, WHO WAS ONE WITH THE FATHER!
NOW THERE WAS ONLY ONE SPIRIT, THROUGHOUT OUR CREATION, REDEMPTION, AND GLORIFICATION OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST! THE CHURCH THE BRIDE!
US! THE ENTIRE SOULS,AND FLESH BODIES IN CHRIST ,AND HE IS THE HEAD! THE ONLY SPIRIT! WHICH GOD ALMIGHTY MADE USE OF AND CONSUMED IT ENTIRELY, TO ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM THE KINGDOM OF THE SON OF HIS LOVE!
1 John 4:23 By this is the SPIRIT OF GOD known. Every spirit which confesseth that JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH , IS OF GOD:
ALL IN HIM , ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM!
Psalm 69:9 for zeal for your house ( obvious SOULS, the only God’s house) consumes me:…………….
THEREFORE THIS SPIRIT IS JESUS CHRIST'S HUMAN STATE AS FLESH BODY! THE GODHEAD BODILY THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH
SO ALMIGHTY GOD ESTABLISHED HIS WORD,
FIRST IN
Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. and created all!
THEN ON CONCEPTION WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER, ENTERED MARY'S UNIQUE WOMB, ( the word, the Son's spirit as the perfect woman through creation) BUILT AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH
THEN, THE FATHER HIMSELF WHITHIN JESUS’ SOUL, THE HOLY SPIRIT IN JESUS CHRIST'S BODY PROCLAIMED THE TRUTH AND THE GOSPEL THROUGH HIS SON'S CARNAL MOUTH!
FINALLY ON THE CROSS HE RECONCILED ALL ONTO HIS BODY, DIED HIS DEATH, AND GLORIFIED IT ANEW IN BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT!
AFTERWARDS UNITED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, BECAME: THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN FLESH AND SPIRIT
THEREFORE:
ALMIGHTY GOD BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
ACTS 7:55 ………saw the GLORY OF GOD, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And he said: Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the SON OF MAN standing on the right hand of God.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it.”
Acts 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God, and was confirmed.
THE ONLY SPIRIT WHO IS MANIFESTED IN THE ENTIRE OF OUR CREATION IN THE LEAST ENTITY
John 6:27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you. For him hath God, THE FATHER,SEALED.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,06:43) Ed, It seems like Jammin believes Jesus grew mightily.
Hi Kerwin,“The Word” of God grew and multiplied. (Acts 12:24)
God's “HolySpirit” grew and multiplied in believers.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgT,
Regarding my comment on your “Reading of the scriptures 40 times from the beginning to end”…I should not have said “So What” in the manor in which I did.
I found the whole way in which you said everything to be demeaning – which is usual.
Still…no reason for me to act in like manor.Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2013,19:42) What he said amounts to him saying “Since these that merely received the Word are called gods then it is only appropriate to call the one Jehovah sanctified and sent into the world God.”
In the OT, the vice regents of God were addressed as both “Jehovah” and “God”, so I acknowledge your point………. although I continue to disagree that is the case here. I believe the Jews thought Jesus, a mere man, was making himself out to be a god.But if what you are saying in the quote box above is the way you truly understand it, then what did your point #1 in the first post on the previous page mean?
Either Jesus did deny their claim, or he didn't. We now seem to agree that he didn't, which makes me wonder why you originally said he did.
Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2013,20:16) “So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)
2 Kings 6:18 AKJV
And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness.And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
We could even honestly say that in the above instance (along with every case recorded in scripture), The Word of Elisha didn't return to him void after it went forth out of his mouth. In each Biblical case, The Word of Elisha accomplished and prospered in the thing whereto he sent it, right?
But what does “word” actually mean in the above verse? It simply refers to words that Elisha spoke, right?
So shall we, for solely personal reasons, apply some hidden, mystical meaning to it – as if “The Word of Elisha” is a living entity who accomplishes Elisha's will?
Or are we intelligent enough to understand that the phrase “the word of Elisha” simply refers to WORDS that Elisha spoke?
Which one, fellas?
Mike,
Elisha's word went to God and accomplished it's purpose.
The question I have is “what does God mean when he says his word returns to him after it's purpose is completed?”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 28 2013,04:16) Quote (kerwin @ July 25 2013,19:42) What he said amounts to him saying “Since these that merely received the Word are called gods then it is only appropriate to call the one Jehovah sanctified and sent into the world God.”
In the OT, the vice regents of God were addressed as both “Jehovah” and “God”, so I acknowledge your point………. although I continue to disagree that is the case here. I believe the Jews thought Jesus, a mere man, was making himself out to be a god.But if what you are saying in the quote box above is the way you truly understand it, then what did your point #1 in the first post on the previous page mean?
Either Jesus did deny their claim, or he didn't. We now seem to agree that he didn't, which makes me wonder why you originally said he did.
Mike,He indirectly denied their accusation by shifting the meaning of God, so that instead of meaning he was Jehovah it just meant he was superior to the gods.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2013,14:36) Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2013,20:16) “So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)
2 Kings 6:18 AKJV
And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness.And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
We could even honestly say that in the above instance (along with every case recorded in scripture), The Word of Elisha didn't return to him void after it went forth out of his mouth. In each Biblical case, The Word of Elisha accomplished and prospered in the thing whereto he sent it, right?
But what does “word” actually mean in the above verse? It simply refers to words that Elisha spoke, right?
So shall we, for solely personal reasons, apply some hidden, mystical meaning to it – as if “The Word of Elisha” is a living entity who accomplishes Elisha's will?
Or are we intelligent enough to understand that the phrase “the word of Elisha” simply refers to WORDS that Elisha spoke?
Which one, fellas?
HiMike,Col.3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to the which also ye were called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts unto God. 17And whatsoever ye do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly
What is the Word of Christ?
Peace brother…
Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,13:02) “The Words” that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63) I have given them “Thy Word” (John 17:14)
“Thy Word” is truth (John 17:17)“So shall “My Word” be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which
I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)
john 1.1 is not the same as 6.63
it is very obvious that you do not know what you are sayingthe greek in john 6.63 for word is not logos but remata
63 τὸ πνεῦμά ἐστιν τὸ ζῳοποιοῦν, ἡ σὰρξ οὐκ ὠφελεῖ οὐδέν· τὰ ῥήματα ἃ ἐγὼ [a]λελάληκα ὑμῖν πνεῦμά ἐστιν καὶ ζωή ἐστιν.
study hard.you are a false teacher boy.
Do you ever feel ashamed of yourself?
be mindful of what you say
Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:10) Quote (jammin @ July 26 2013,07:48) out of the topic. JEsus is the word
Jammin,So you believe Jesus is the bible.
did i say jesus is the bible?
i said JEsus is the word.
do you understand english?Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,20:06) Mike, Elisha's word went to God and accomplished it's purpose.
I agree that we could metaphorically and poetically say that Elisha's word accomplished it's purpose. But just because we personify the word of Elisha – making it sound like it was an entity separate from Elisha, complete with it's own will – the fact remains that this is just poetic speaking, and “the word of Elisha” was never anything except words that Elisha spoke out of his mouth.Are we agreed on this point?
Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,20:06) The question I have is “what does God mean when he says his word returns to him after it's purpose is completed?”
Just like the above, it is simply poetic and metaphorical speaking, Kerwin. But let's examine your understanding that “the word of God” IS something other than simply the words that God spoke:1. That would mean that “the word of God” is an entity of itself, separate from God Himself……… an entity with a will of it's own. (Consider that this “word” could not possibly RETURN TO God if it was not something OTHER THAN God……… something that can come to God and leave from Him.) Do you believe these things?
2. Consider Isaiah 45:23, where God's word goes out from Him – but does not return AT ALL. In MY understanding, this is just another instance of poetic speaking, and means that whatever God says will be done, will in fact be done. But in YOUR understanding, this calls for yet ANOTHER separate entity that DOESN'T come back to the God who sent it forth. So now you have at least TWO “Words of God” – one that does return to Him, and one that doesn't. Is this what you believe?
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