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Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,18:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,16:40) Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,08:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2013,10:18) Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2013,07:09) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,03:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,09:14) Quote (kerwin @ May 30 2013,05:22) Scripture states the Spirit does and has revealed them to Jesus. Are you going to disagree and say there are two?
I'm sorry. Where exactly does scripture say the Spirit knew the things of God and then revealed those things to Jesus?(I liked your “Please!” answer, Kerwin. It shows that you can't refute the points I've made.
)
Mike,Please! means you are being absurd and I have no intention of answering you according to your ways. Lawyer games are absurd and Jesus rebuked the lawyers of Scripture according to their ways. Your question is not absurd and so I answer it according to the knowledge I have received.
The information you asked for can be derived from 1 Corinthians 2:10-11. The Spirit is clearly stated to be both the one that knows all things and the one that reveals all things to those that believe. Jesus is the preeminent believer.
Matthew 11:27 confirms it as Jesus states “all things were delivered unto me of my Father”.
KERWINQuote Jesus is the preeminent believer. YOU ARE A POOR JUDGE OF TRUTH ;
Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body
Col 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—
Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Col 2:4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
T,What is your point?
Kerwinok you can not see it ,but your opinion is clear ;
Christ can not be a believer ,this is were you are wrong and can not see it
WHAT IS AN BELIEVER
and what his someone who knows
T,I know that the righteous live by faith and that Jesus is righteous. As you say his faith has led to knowledge and so he has grown in wisdom.
Kerwinbut at the age of 12 Jesus knew already who was his real father and for what reason he was send ,only time was separating him of fulfilling that road
T,By the time he was age 12 Jesus had learned God was his Father as to the spirit but after that he grew in wisdom.
Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,04:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2013,07:10)
Kerwin, can you show me a scripture that says the Holy Spirit revealed anything about the Father to Jesus? I know of a few scriptures where Jesus says he does only what he's seen the Father doing, and that he speaks only what the Father has taught him to speak……. but I'm unaware of a scripture that says what you claim.
Mike,Quote Matthew 11:27
King James Version (KJV)27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Jesus confests that all things have been revealed to him.
Yep. Jesus taught that all things had been delivered to him FROM THE FATHER – not from some “Holy Spirit Son of God” that you've invented.So your scriptures support MY claim, instead of your own, right?
Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,04:37) Quote John 17:6
King James Version (KJV)6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
God revealed his name to Jesus via the Spirit, whose relationship to him is as the Son, and Jesus reveals God's name to his students by the same Spirit.
I see the scripture just fine. But I'm having trouble even finding the word “spirit” in that scripture – let alone the claims you are making.Kerwin, when you can show me FROM SCRIPTURE that the Holy Spirit ever revealed anything to Jesus, let me know. Until then, you are nothing but one of Kathi's disciples, making claims that you can't actually support.
Quote (carmel @ June 07 2013,10:45) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Charles, the one and only Most High God of gods is called by at least a dozen different titles in scripture, including “God” and “Lord God”. Just because a different title is used does not mean the author is talking about a different God.
NOW:Since it is a different God, it isn’t for nothing, it’s for a purpose!
Don’t you want to know the purpose, since you want to know the truth?
So let’s find out the purpose………….
What? Don't you think you first must give a valid reason for me to believe it IS a “different God” before you continue posting with the assumption that it is?Charles, I'm sorry but I'm not really interested in having this discussion. The claims you are making are absurd, and there is no way a sensible person would conclude such things from the words of scripture.
You have let your imagination run wild, and have come up with all kinds of ludicrous teachings that aren't in any scripture.
I posted the words of Malachi for you, who said we all have ONE God and Father who created us. I believe Malachi. You are free to invent your own doctrine, but I have better things to do than to wade through all that nonsense.
Sorry if this was harsh, but I'm being painfully honest with you.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,02:06) Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,04:37) Quote John 17:6
King James Version (KJV)6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
God revealed his name to Jesus via the Spirit, whose relationship to him is as the Son, and Jesus reveals God's name to his students by the same Spirit.
I see the scripture just fine. But I'm having trouble even finding the word “spirit” in that scripture – let alone the claims you are making.Kerwin, when you can show me FROM SCRIPTURE that the Holy Spirit ever revealed anything to Jesus, let me know. Until then, you are nothing but one of Kathi's disciples, making claims that you can't actually support.
Mike,It is only the Spirit that knows the things of God. You don't seem to believe that.
Do you have trouble understanding that the Messiah is the firstfruits of them that slept?
1 Corinthians 2:10
King James Version (KJV)10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Before God revealed the things of God to those who are not the firstfruits he revealed them to him who is.
Quote (kerwin @ June 09 2013,00:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,18:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,16:40) Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,08:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2013,10:18) Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2013,07:09) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,03:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,09:14) Quote (kerwin @ May 30 2013,05:22) Scripture states the Spirit does and has revealed them to Jesus. Are you going to disagree and say there are two?
I'm sorry. Where exactly does scripture say the Spirit knew the things of God and then revealed those things to Jesus?(I liked your “Please!” answer, Kerwin. It shows that you can't refute the points I've made.
)
Mike,Please! means you are being absurd and I have no intention of answering you according to your ways. Lawyer games are absurd and Jesus rebuked the lawyers of Scripture according to their ways. Your question is not absurd and so I answer it according to the knowledge I have received.
The information you asked for can be derived from 1 Corinthians 2:10-11. The Spirit is clearly stated to be both the one that knows all things and the one that reveals all things to those that believe. Jesus is the preeminent believer.
Matthew 11:27 confirms it as Jesus states “all things were delivered unto me of my Father”.
KERWINQuote Jesus is the preeminent believer. YOU ARE A POOR JUDGE OF TRUTH ;
Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body
Col 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—
Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Col 2:4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
T,What is your point?
Kerwinok you can not see it ,but your opinion is clear ;
Christ can not be a believer ,this is were you are wrong and can not see it
WHAT IS AN BELIEVER
and what his someone who knows
T,I know that the righteous live by faith and that Jesus is righteous. As you say his faith has led to knowledge and so he has grown in wisdom.
Kerwinbut at the age of 12 Jesus knew already who was his real father and for what reason he was send ,only time was separating him of fulfilling that road
T,By the time he was age 12 Jesus had learned God was his Father as to the spirit but after that he grew in wisdom.
KQuote By the time he was age 12 Jesus had learned God was his Father as to the spirit but after that he grew in wisdom. your comment is based on your believe that Christ is a man like all of us sinners ,and do not believe that he was ,his the son of God before creation .
so for that reason you can not see truth ,at 12 years old he stun the teachers in Jerusalem temple
Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2013,07:21) Quote (kerwin @ June 09 2013,00:31) Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,18:03) Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2013,16:40) Quote (terraricca @ June 07 2013,08:36) Quote (kerwin @ June 06 2013,10:18) Quote (terraricca @ June 06 2013,07:09) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,03:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,09:14) Quote (kerwin @ May 30 2013,05:22) Scripture states the Spirit does and has revealed them to Jesus. Are you going to disagree and say there are two?
I'm sorry. Where exactly does scripture say the Spirit knew the things of God and then revealed those things to Jesus?(I liked your “Please!” answer, Kerwin. It shows that you can't refute the points I've made.
)
Mike,Please! means you are being absurd and I have no intention of answering you according to your ways. Lawyer games are absurd and Jesus rebuked the lawyers of Scripture according to their ways. Your question is not absurd and so I answer it according to the knowledge I have received.
The information you asked for can be derived from 1 Corinthians 2:10-11. The Spirit is clearly stated to be both the one that knows all things and the one that reveals all things to those that believe. Jesus is the preeminent believer.
Matthew 11:27 confirms it as Jesus states “all things were delivered unto me of my Father”.
KERWINQuote Jesus is the preeminent believer. YOU ARE A POOR JUDGE OF TRUTH ;
Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body
Col 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—
Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Col 2:4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
T,What is your point?
Kerwinok you can not see it ,but your opinion is clear ;
Christ can not be a believer ,this is were you are wrong and can not see it
WHAT IS AN BELIEVER
and what his someone who knows
T,I know that the righteous live by faith and that Jesus is righteous. As you say his faith has led to knowledge and so he has grown in wisdom.
Kerwinbut at the age of 12 Jesus knew already who was his real father and for what reason he was send ,only time was separating him of fulfilling that road
T,By the time he was age 12 Jesus had learned God was his Father as to the spirit but after that he grew in wisdom.
KQuote By the time he was age 12 Jesus had learned God was his Father as to the spirit but after that he grew in wisdom. your comment is based on your believe that Christ is a man like all of us sinners ,and do not believe that he was ,his the son of God before creation .
so for that reason you can not see truth ,at 12 years old he stun the teachers in Jerusalem temple
T,My answer is based on the facts Scripture states Jesus is the son of David as of the flesh and that after he was in the temple Scripture declares he grew in wisdom. I have also considered that it is those that receive the Spirit that are called the sons of Gods in Paul's letters.
K
In my bible it says that Christ himself says he his the son of God ,but also his father says this,and Gabriel also says it,
Because ,only Joseph is mention to be an descended from David and yet he is not the father of Christ,
Can you explain this
kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Before God revealed the things of God to those who are not the firstfruits he revealed them to him who is. Kerwin,
Are you concluding, that God never revealed anything to others before Jesus?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,07:06) Kerwin, when you can show me FROM SCRIPTURE that the Holy Spirit ever revealed anything to Jesus, let me know. Until then, you are nothing but one of Kathi's disciples, making claims that you can't actually support.
Mike……..Mat 16:17…> And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed are you Simon Bar-jna: for flesh and blood has not “REAVEALED” it unto you, but my Fahter which is in heaven. (18) And I say unto you, you are Peter (Jesus also had the reavealed knowledge about Peter) and upon this rock (the power of God to get into the mind and reaveal things) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not previal against it.There are other scriptures that show how God the Father Reavealed thing to Jesus also, even telling him what to say and how to say it, Jesus said he spoke nothhng from himself but what ever the Father was Showing him MIke. Jesus said told him what he was to say and the Father was “IN” and He was not alone in what he was doing. If you truly understood God the FATHER was truly “IN” Jesus then why can't you understand He was also telling and reaveling things to him? Even God speaking though the Prophets was a reaveling Process Mike. God reavealed to them what to say and who to say it to . The whole Book of Revelations is GOD reaveled.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 08 2013,17:25) Before God revealed the things of God to those who are not the firstfruits he revealed them to him who is.
I agree that GOD (HIMSELF) has revealed many things to His firstborn Son for millions of years, Kerwin.But you saying “God revealed things to Jesus” is NOT the same as showing a scripture that says “God revealed things to Jesus THROUGH His 'Holy Spirit Son' “.
It is nothing but games you are playing. Either show a scripture where anything was revealed to Jesus through God's “Holy Spirit Son” – or let it go.
You are wasting my time with this unscriptural nonsense.
Gene,
Once again, you are completely off the mark. I never said that God didn't reveal things to His firstborn Son.
What I'm asking for is a scripture that says God revealed anything to Jesus through His “Holy Spirit Son of God”.
Try to keep up with the discussion.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,22:57) Quote (kerwin @ June 08 2013,17:25) Before God revealed the things of God to those who are not the firstfruits he revealed them to him who is.
I agree that GOD (HIMSELF) has revealed many things to His firstborn Son for millions of years, Kerwin.But you saying “God revealed things to Jesus” is NOT the same as showing a scripture that says “God revealed things to Jesus THROUGH His 'Holy Spirit Son' “.
It is nothing but games you are playing. Either show a scripture where anything was revealed to Jesus through God's “Holy Spirit Son” – or let it go.
You are wasting my time with this unscriptural nonsense.
Mike,There is only one by whom God reveals all things and that one it the Spirit. You seem to be trying to invent a second one.
Quote (carmel @ June 09 2013,12:17) kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Before God revealed the things of God to those who are not the firstfruits he revealed them to him who is. Kerwin,
Are you concluding, that God never revealed anything to others before Jesus?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Charles,Scripture declares that the only one God reveals all things to others is by his Spirit. He certainly did so with Moses. Moses, a symbol of the one to come, then revealed them to God's chosen people.
Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2013,09:34) K In my bible it says that Christ himself says he his the son of God ,but also his father says this,and Gabriel also says it,
Because ,only Joseph is mention to be an descended from David and yet he is not the father of Christ,
Can you explain this
T,Mary is also a descendant of David via Nathan his son.
Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,11:02) Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2013,09:34) K In my bible it says that Christ himself says he his the son of God ,but also his father says this,and Gabriel also says it,
Because ,only Joseph is mention to be an descended from David and yet he is not the father of Christ,
Can you explain this
T,Mary is also a descendant of David via Nathan his son.
Kbut it is the father that counts ,not the mother ,
many people are born to David through Solomon and his 1000 wives /concubines
so my question remains unanswered
Quote (terraricca @ June 10 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ June 10 2013,11:02) Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2013,09:34) K In my bible it says that Christ himself says he his the son of God ,but also his father says this,and Gabriel also says it,
Because ,only Joseph is mention to be an descended from David and yet he is not the father of Christ,
Can you explain this
T,Mary is also a descendant of David via Nathan his son.
Kbut it is the father that counts ,not the mother ,
many people are born to David through Solomon and his 1000 wives /concubines
so my question remains unanswered
T,Inheritance can go through the mother's side in certain circumstances. His flesh side came from Mary by a miracle of God.
MIke………Your stalled in thinking, that we are saying that the Spirt is a different person, The Spirit that produces a Son of God is the Holy Spirit of God so in that “SENSE” it can be said to be the SON of GOD because it is the “SEED” of GOD, it is that Spirit producing, Sons of God. Much like the seed of men produce sons men, so does the seed of God produce other sons of God.
That is not a “seperate Person” person doing it, it is part of the same Person, being extended to another. Much like a fathers DNA combines with the Mothers DMA, and produces another Person, So it is with the HOLY SPIRIT of our Heavenly Father, It combines with human being Spirits and produces another son of GOD. We like Jesus are Sons of God and Son of Man. Just as you are a Son of you Father and a son of your mother. This is the way i understand it.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2013,20:43) MIke………Your stalled in thinking that we are saying that the Spirt is a different person, The Spirit that produces a Son of God is the Holy Spirit of GOd so in that “SENSE” it can be said to be the SON of GOD because it is the “SEED” of GOD it is that Spirit producing, Sons of God. Much like the seed of men procuce sons men, so does the seed of God produce other sons of God. That is not a “seperate Person” person is doing it, it is part of the same Person being extended to another. Much like a fathers DNA combines with the Mothers DMA, and produces another Person, So itis with the HOLY SPIRIT of our Heavenly Father, It combines with human being and produces andother son of GOD. We like Jessu are Sons of God and Son of Man. Just as you are a Son of you Father and a son of your mother. This is the way i understand it.
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
Gene,An interesting way to put it and one that sounds correct.
kerwin,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Scripture declares that the only one God reveals all things to others is by his Spirit. He certainly did so with Moses Kerwin,
Yes for sure!
The PARADOX is that Moses, whom within him, had the son’s spirit, the word
CLASHED quite a quite a bit with god of the world and god wanted to kill him at one stage. Moses demonstrated that HE WAS MORE DETERMINED THEN god of the world who also ended up being MOSES' SUBJECT! In fact Moses smashed the first set of laws, to make god of the world accept his conditions. Moses also ignored god of the world regarding the miracle of the water from the rock, to make it clear to him that HE IS NOT GOD!BUT THE ONE WHO IS WITHIN MOSES IS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
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