JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:22)

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:21) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,16:23) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,18:52) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2013,07:02) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,10:44) Quote (jammin @ April 26 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2013,10:43) Quote (jammin @ April 24 2013,22:28) Paul said this Rock that went along with moses and to his people is Christ! Actually, Paul said they were all baptized into MOSES in the wilderness, and that the rock was “christ”.  He didn't specifically say it was JESUS christ.  (God has had MANY “christs” in the scriptures – including Moses.) Also, the writer of Hebrews (1:1-2) says that God spoke to us various ways in the past, and has spoken to us through His Son “in these last days”.  That COULD BE understood to mean that God hadn't ever spoken to us through Jesus UNTIL “these last days”.  It doesn't NECESSARILY exclude Jesus from being one of God's messengers in the past, but it sure sounds like it. Which brings us to the main point:  The one who was in the burning bush was called “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 3:2, Acts 7:30)  And the one who went before the Israelites in the pillar of cloud and fire was “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 14:19, 23:20) So if you want to believe it was Jesus in the bush, and Jesus going before the Israelites in the wilderness, then you also must believe that Jesus is an angel OF Jehovah. Are you willing to believe this scriptural truth? let the bible speak and not your opinion.. who is the Rock in 1cor 10.4? the rock is messiah himself Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And they all drank of the one drink of The Spirit, for they were drinking from The Rock of The Spirit, which was with them, but that Rock was The Messiah. who is the messiah according to the bible? he is Jesus Christ. mat 16.16 New International Version (©2011) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” what about the commentary?  what did they say about 1 cor 10.4? do they agree that the Rock is Christ himself? let me post one Vincent's Word Studies Was Christ Showing that he does not believe the legend, but only uses it allegorically. The important point is that Christ the Word was with His people under the old covenant. “In each case we recognize the mystery of a 'real presence”' (Ellicott). “God was in Christ” here, as from the beginning. The mosaic and the christian economies are only different sides of one dispensation, which is a gospel dispensation throughout. The Jewish sacraments are not mere types of ours. They are identical. sorry boy Jammin, King Saul was the Lord's christ as Scripture declares David called him such. what are you talking about boy Jammin, 1 Samuel 26:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord's anointed, and be guiltless? You tak too much. Who is the rock in 1cor 10.4? Jammin, why does anyone have to be the spiritual rock?  I have seen many rocks that no one was. im asking you who is the rock in 1 cor 10.4

Jammin,

The burden of proof is on you to prove the spiritual rock was a “who”, much less Jesus Christ.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:32)

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:21) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,16:23) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,18:52) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2013,07:02) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,10:44) Quote (jammin @ April 26 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2013,10:43) Quote (jammin @ April 24 2013,22:28) Paul said this Rock that went along with moses and to his people is Christ! Actually, Paul said they were all baptized into MOSES in the wilderness, and that the rock was “christ”.  He didn't specifically say it was JESUS christ.  (God has had MANY “christs” in the scriptures – including Moses.) Also, the writer of Hebrews (1:1-2) says that God spoke to us various ways in the past, and has spoken to us through His Son “in these last days”.  That COULD BE understood to mean that God hadn't ever spoken to us through Jesus UNTIL “these last days”.  It doesn't NECESSARILY exclude Jesus from being one of God's messengers in the past, but it sure sounds like it. Which brings us to the main point:  The one who was in the burning bush was called “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 3:2, Acts 7:30)  And the one who went before the Israelites in the pillar of cloud and fire was “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 14:19, 23:20) So if you want to believe it was Jesus in the bush, and Jesus going before the Israelites in the wilderness, then you also must believe that Jesus is an angel OF Jehovah. Are you willing to believe this scriptural truth? let the bible speak and not your opinion.. who is the Rock in 1cor 10.4? the rock is messiah himself Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And they all drank of the one drink of The Spirit, for they were drinking from The Rock of The Spirit, which was with them, but that Rock was The Messiah. who is the messiah according to the bible? he is Jesus Christ. mat 16.16 New International Version (©2011) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” what about the commentary?  what did they say about 1 cor 10.4? do they agree that the Rock is Christ himself? let me post one Vincent's Word Studies Was Christ Showing that he does not believe the legend, but only uses it allegorically. The important point is that Christ the Word was with His people under the old covenant. “In each case we recognize the mystery of a 'real presence”' (Ellicott). “God was in Christ” here, as from the beginning. The mosaic and the christian economies are only different sides of one dispensation, which is a gospel dispensation throughout. The Jewish sacraments are not mere types of ours. They are identical. sorry boy Jammin, King Saul was the Lord's christ as Scripture declares David called him such. what are you talking about boy Jammin, 1 Samuel 26:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord's anointed, and be guiltless? You tak too much. Who is the rock in 1cor 10.4? Jammin, why does anyone have to be the spiritual rock?  I have seen many rocks that no one was. im asking you who is the rock in 1 cor 10.4 Jammin, The burden of proof is on you to prove the spiritual rock was a “who”, much less Jesus Christ.

so you cant answer my question, right?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:29)

kerwin, you dont agree bec you just want words that are pleasing to your ears. why dont you make your own version and make it all small letters LOL

Jammin,

I believe in testing the Spirit of those men you put your faith in.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:34)

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:32) Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:21) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,16:23) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,18:52) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2013,07:02) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,10:44) Quote (jammin @ April 26 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2013,10:43) Quote (jammin @ April 24 2013,22:28) Paul said this Rock that went along with moses and to his people is Christ! Actually, Paul said they were all baptized into MOSES in the wilderness, and that the rock was “christ”.  He didn't specifically say it was JESUS christ.  (God has had MANY “christs” in the scriptures – including Moses.) Also, the writer of Hebrews (1:1-2) says that God spoke to us various ways in the past, and has spoken to us through His Son “in these last days”.  That COULD BE understood to mean that God hadn't ever spoken to us through Jesus UNTIL “these last days”.  It doesn't NECESSARILY exclude Jesus from being one of God's messengers in the past, but it sure sounds like it. Which brings us to the main point:  The one who was in the burning bush was called “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 3:2, Acts 7:30)  And the one who went before the Israelites in the pillar of cloud and fire was “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 14:19, 23:20) So if you want to believe it was Jesus in the bush, and Jesus going before the Israelites in the wilderness, then you also must believe that Jesus is an angel OF Jehovah. Are you willing to believe this scriptural truth? let the bible speak and not your opinion.. who is the Rock in 1cor 10.4? the rock is messiah himself Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And they all drank of the one drink of The Spirit, for they were drinking from The Rock of The Spirit, which was with them, but that Rock was The Messiah. who is the messiah according to the bible? he is Jesus Christ. mat 16.16 New International Version (©2011) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” what about the commentary?  what did they say about 1 cor 10.4? do they agree that the Rock is Christ himself? let me post one Vincent's Word Studies Was Christ Showing that he does not believe the legend, but only uses it allegorically. The important point is that Christ the Word was with His people under the old covenant. “In each case we recognize the mystery of a 'real presence”' (Ellicott). “God was in Christ” here, as from the beginning. The mosaic and the christian economies are only different sides of one dispensation, which is a gospel dispensation throughout. The Jewish sacraments are not mere types of ours. They are identical. sorry boy Jammin, King Saul was the Lord's christ as Scripture declares David called him such. what are you talking about boy Jammin, 1 Samuel 26:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord's anointed, and be guiltless? You tak too much. Who is the rock in 1cor 10.4? Jammin, why does anyone have to be the spiritual rock?  I have seen many rocks that no one was. im asking you who is the rock in 1 cor 10.4 Jammin, The burden of proof is on you to prove the spiritual rock was a “who”, much less Jesus Christ. so you cant answer my question, right?

Jammin,

I answered but you do not like the answer. Mike started this conversation with a interesting point. I have seen no seeking to understand in your posts. You respond as if without thought. You have not answered my point that a rock, even a spiritual rock, does not have to be a who.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,23:33)

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:34) Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:32) Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,15:21) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,16:23) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,18:52) Quote (jammin @ April 27 2013,07:02) Quote (kerwin @ April 27 2013,10:44) Quote (jammin @ April 26 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2013,10:43) Quote (jammin @ April 24 2013,22:28) Paul said this Rock that went along with moses and to his people is Christ! Actually, Paul said they were all baptized into MOSES in the wilderness, and that the rock was “christ”.  He didn't specifically say it was JESUS christ.  (God has had MANY “christs” in the scriptures – including Moses.) Also, the writer of Hebrews (1:1-2) says that God spoke to us various ways in the past, and has spoken to us through His Son “in these last days”.  That COULD BE understood to mean that God hadn't ever spoken to us through Jesus UNTIL “these last days”.  It doesn't NECESSARILY exclude Jesus from being one of God's messengers in the past, but it sure sounds like it. Which brings us to the main point:  The one who was in the burning bush was called “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 3:2, Acts 7:30)  And the one who went before the Israelites in the pillar of cloud and fire was “the angel of Jehovah”.  (Ex 14:19, 23:20) So if you want to believe it was Jesus in the bush, and Jesus going before the Israelites in the wilderness, then you also must believe that Jesus is an angel OF Jehovah. Are you willing to believe this scriptural truth? let the bible speak and not your opinion.. who is the Rock in 1cor 10.4? the rock is messiah himself Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) And they all drank of the one drink of The Spirit, for they were drinking from The Rock of The Spirit, which was with them, but that Rock was The Messiah. who is the messiah according to the bible? he is Jesus Christ. mat 16.16 New International Version (©2011) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” what about the commentary?  what did they say about 1 cor 10.4? do they agree that the Rock is Christ himself? let me post one Vincent's Word Studies Was Christ Showing that he does not believe the legend, but only uses it allegorically. The important point is that Christ the Word was with His people under the old covenant. “In each case we recognize the mystery of a 'real presence”' (Ellicott). “God was in Christ” here, as from the beginning. The mosaic and the christian economies are only different sides of one dispensation, which is a gospel dispensation throughout. The Jewish sacraments are not mere types of ours. They are identical. sorry boy Jammin, King Saul was the Lord's christ as Scripture declares David called him such. what are you talking about boy Jammin, 1 Samuel 26:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord's anointed, and be guiltless? You tak too much. Who is the rock in 1cor 10.4? Jammin, why does anyone have to be the spiritual rock?  I have seen many rocks that no one was. im asking you who is the rock in 1 cor 10.4 Jammin, The burden of proof is on you to prove the spiritual rock was a “who”, much less Jesus Christ. so you cant answer my question, right? Jammin, I answered but you do not like the answer.  Mike started this conversation with a interesting point.  I have seen no seeking to understand in your posts.  You respond as if without thought.  You have not answered my point that a rock, even a spiritual rock, does not have to be a who.

you did not answer me. you have memory gap boy.

ill repeat
who is the Rock in 1 cor 10.4?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:58) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,18:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,11:13) So then “YES”, you WILL try to convince us that Jehovah is an angel of Himself? the bible said that. if you dont want to believe the bible, it is up to you Do you believe “Jehovah is an angel OF Jehovah” is the ONLY WAY those words can be understood, jammin?  Or could it be that the vice-regents OF YHWH were sometimes referred to as “YHWH”? Shall we go through some scriptures, and see if there are other instances of this? well i just read to you that ex 3.2 (angel of God) is the Lord himself. that is what the bible said but if you cant accept that then make your own bible LOL commentaries agree to me boy

Okay jammin,

Let's discuss this one:

Judges 6
11 The angel of the Lord came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the Lord appeared to Gideon, he said, “The Lord is with you, mighty warrior.”

13 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but if the Lord is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our ancestors told us about when they said, ‘Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?’ But now the LORD has abandoned us and given us into the hand of Midian.”

14 The LORD turned to him and said, “Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian’s hand. Am I not sending you?”

15 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.”

16 The Lord answered, “I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.”

17 Gideon replied, “If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me. 18 Please do not go away until I come back and bring my offering and set it before you.”

And the LORD said, “I will wait until you return.”

19 Gideon went inside, prepared a young goat, and from an ephah of flour he made bread without yeast. Putting the meat in a basket and its broth in a pot, he brought them out and offered them to him under the oak.

So, was this “angel OF YHWH” actually YHWH Himself?  Or was Gideon addressing God's vice-regent as “YHWH”?  Which one?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,06:33)

Jammin, I answered but you do not like the answer.  Mike started this conversation with a interesting point.  I have seen no seeking to understand in your posts.  You respond as if without thought.  You have not answered my point that a rock, even a spiritual rock, does not have to be a who.

After awhile it just gets repetitive, Kerwin.

jammin's unscriptural claims all eventually come down to the same old tired thing:  Producing a twisted version where a Trinitarian interpreter (not “translator”) added his own words into the Hebrew or Greek text in an attempt to make certain verses sound like they teach a trinity when they truly don't.  

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2013,11:08)

Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,21:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,13:58) Quote (jammin @ April 29 2013,18:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2013,11:13) So then “YES”, you WILL try to convince us that Jehovah is an angel of Himself? the bible said that. if you dont want to believe the bible, it is up to you Do you believe “Jehovah is an angel OF Jehovah” is the ONLY WAY those words can be understood, jammin?  Or could it be that the vice-regents OF YHWH were sometimes referred to as “YHWH”? Shall we go through some scriptures, and see if there are other instances of this? well i just read to you that ex 3.2 (angel of God) is the Lord himself. that is what the bible said but if you cant accept that then make your own bible LOL commentaries agree to me boy Okay jammin, Let's discuss this one: Judges 6 11 The angel of the Lord came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. 12 When the angel of the Lord appeared to Gideon, he said, “The Lord is with you, mighty warrior.” 13 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but if the Lord is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our ancestors told us about when they said, ‘Did not the LORD bring us up out of Egypt?’ But now the LORD has abandoned us and given us into the hand of Midian.” 14 The LORD turned to him and said, “Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian’s hand. Am I not sending you?” 15 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.” 16 The Lord answered, “I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.” 17 Gideon replied, “If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me. 18 Please do not go away until I come back and bring my offering and set it before you.” And the LORD said, “I will wait until you return.” 19 Gideon went inside, prepared a young goat, and from an ephah of flour he made bread without yeast. Putting the meat in a basket and its broth in a pot, he brought them out and offered them to him under the oak. So, was this “angel OF YHWH” actually YHWH Himself?  Or was Gideon addressing God's vice-regent as “YHWH”?  Which one?

let me post what the bible said

Judges 6:11
Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Angel of the Lord Visits Gideon

11 The angel of the Lord [C angelic spokesperson for God, sometimes identified with the Lord himself; 2:1; Gen. 16:7; Ex. 14:19; 23:20] came and sat down under the oak tree at Ophrah that belonged to Joash, ·one of the Abiezrite people [L the Abiezrite]. Gideon, Joash’s son, was ·separating some wheat from the chaff [threshing/L beating out wheat] in a winepress to keep the wheat from the Midianites [C in a pit hidden from sight].

what about the commentary?

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And there came an angel of the Lord,…. This was not the prophet before mentioned, as Ben Gersom thinks, but an angel of God, as expressed, and not a created one, but the Angel of Jehovah's presence, the Word and Son of God, and who is expressly called Jehovah himself, Judges 6:14.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2013,11:20)

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,06:33) Jammin, I answered but you do not like the answer.  Mike started this conversation with a interesting point.  I have seen no seeking to understand in your posts.  You respond as if without thought.  You have not answered my point that a rock, even a spiritual rock, does not have to be a who. After awhile it just gets repetitive, Kerwin. jammin's unscriptural claims all eventually come down to the same old tired thing:  Producing a twisted version where a Trinitarian interpreter (not “translator”) added his own words into the Hebrew or Greek text in an attempt to make certain verses sound like they teach a trinity when they truly don't.

lol

that is just your excuse boy. i give you version but you give me stories.

you cant prove your belief if you dont have to show.
even in court, you won win

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,18:48)

Judges 6:11 Expanded Bible (EXB) The Angel of the Lord Visits Gideon 11 The angel of the Lord [C angelic spokesperson for God, sometimes identified with the Lord himself; 2:1; Gen. 16:7; Ex. 14:19; 23:20] came and sat down under the oak tree at Ophrah that belonged to Joash

I agree that is what the Hebrew text says.  And I agree with this commentary that this angel OF YHWH is sometimes identified with YHWH Himself.  

jammin, that doesn't mean your commentator foolishly believes this angel actually IS Yahweh.  It means he believes this vice-regent (representative/angel) OF YHWH is sometimes identified by Yahweh's name, since he was sent IN THE NAME OF Yahweh.

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,18:48)

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible And there came an angel of the Lord,…. This was not the prophet before mentioned……..

Agreed.

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,18:48)

…..but an angel of God, as expressed……

Agreed.  After all, like he says, it IS clearly expressed in the text that this was an angel OF YHWH, right?

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,18:48)

……and not a created one, but the Angel of Jehovah's presence, the Word and Son of God……

How exactly do you suppose Gill ascertained this particular information, jammin?  Surely these things aren't SAID in the Hebrew text, right?  So how exactly did Gill come to this conclusion?

[jammin]

mike,

do you believe that angel cant be worshipped?

[mikeboll64]

Angels are created, jammin – every last one of them. We are told to worship the Creator, not the creations.

Please answer my last post. Tell me how Gill knows this particular angel of YHWH was “not a created one”.

[jammin]

does it mean that your answer is yes?

if yes then good.

so do you believe that the angel of the Lord in ex 3 and judges 6 cant be worshipped?

[jammin]

mike,

we will go to that part mate.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2013,06:20)

Quote (kerwin @ April 30 2013,06:33) Jammin, I answered but you do not like the answer.  Mike started this conversation with a interesting point.  I have seen no seeking to understand in your posts.  You respond as if without thought.  You have not answered my point that a rock, even a spiritual rock, does not have to be a who. After awhile it just gets repetitive, Kerwin. jammin's unscriptural claims all eventually come down to the same old tired thing:  Producing a twisted version where a Trinitarian interpreter (not “translator”) added his own words into the Hebrew or Greek text in an attempt to make certain verses sound like they teach a trinity when they truly don't.

Mike,

I am finding it unproductive in aiding me to learn.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2013,11:08)

14 The LORD turned to him and said, “Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian’s hand. Am I not sending you?” 15 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.” 16 The Lord answered, “I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.” 17 Gideon replied, “If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me. 18 Please do not go away until I come back and bring my offering and set it before you.” And the LORD said, “I will wait until you return.” 19 Gideon went inside, prepared a young goat, and from an ephah of flour he made bread without yeast. Putting the meat in a basket and its broth in a pot, he brought them out and offered them to him under the oak.[/color] So, was this “angel OF YHWH” actually YHWH Himself?  Or was Gideon addressing God's vice-regent as “YHWH”?  Which one?

Mike ……It was Yahweh Speaking trhough the Angel, directly to Gideon, Notice when Gideon responded he used the word “adonay” which meant the ONLY GOD. So GOD who is A Spirit was there “IN” the Angel, Just as he was there “IN” the flesh man Jesus. Complete GOd was there MIke not Just a Part or a little god, but the real GOD Speaking First Person through the Angel . Check out the words used there LORD  (Yahweh) and the other word used (adonay) that is not a magistrate or Angel,  but the real and only God , Gideon was addressing. IMO>  Just as Thomas came to see when he said My lord “AND” my GOD. Same thing Mike GOD The Father was indeed in them both and speaking first person through them both , the angel and Jesus. God is a Sprit and can do that Mike. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,20:52)

so do you believe that the angel of the Lord in ex 3 and judges 6 cant be worshipped?

Oh, I'm quite sure ANYONE can be worshiped, jammin. But we are told to worship ONLY Jehovah our God. (Jesus is one of the angels of God who told us this, remember?)

Now I already know you are going to try to show scriptures where you think Jesus was worshiped. But it won't work, because the Greek word for worship is the same as the word for simply bowing down to show reverence to any person.

There is really no need to go through that, for many reasons:

1. You can't even logically claim that any of the angels of YHWH in the OT were Jesus, because Heb 1:1-2 says God only spoke to us through him “in these last days”.

2. The Greek word “proskuneo” can mean “God-worship”, or it can just as easily mean “obeisance given to any man”.

3. No matter how hard you try, you will never convince any SENSIBLE person that God Almighty is an angel of God Almighty.

You have already concluded that Jesus is an angel of YHWH. That is good, for he truly is. Unfortunately, that very conclusion that we've both come to prohibits Jesus from being the God he is an angel of.

[mikeboll64]

Gene,

The Hebrew word “adonay” is simply the emphatic form of “adown” (lord).

Judges 6 is not the only time that word is used of someone other than Jehovah. (It is a Trinitarian old wives tale that this word is ONLY used of Jehovah in scripture. There is no truth to that tale, Gene. Look at Isaiah 21:8, where that word apparently refers to Isaiah.)

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2013,11:28)

Quote (jammin @ April 30 2013,20:52) so do you believe that the angel of the Lord in ex 3 and judges 6 cant be worshipped? Oh, I'm quite sure ANYONE can be worshiped, jammin.  But we are told to worship ONLY Jehovah our God.  (Jesus is one of the angels of God who told us this, remember?) Now I already know you are going to try to show scriptures where you think Jesus was worshiped.  But it won't work, because the Greek word for worship is the same as the word for simply bowing down to show reverence to any person. There is really no need to go through that, for many reasons: 1.  You can't even logically claim that any of the angels of YHWH in the OT were Jesus, because Heb 1:1-2 says God only spoke to us through him “in these last days”. 2.  The Greek word “proskuneo” can mean “God-worship”, or it can just as easily mean “obeisance given to any man”. 3.  No matter how hard you try, you will never convince any SENSIBLE person that God Almighty is an angel of God Almighty. You have already concluded that Jesus is an angel of YHWH.  That is good, for he truly is.  Unfortunately, that very conclusion that we've both come to prohibits Jesus from being the God he is an angel of.

do you believe that ONLY God can be worshipped?

[mikeboll64]

I just said that ANYONE can be worshiped, didn't I?

But WE are told to worship and serve ONLY Jehovah, our God………. NOT any of His many angels.

[Author]

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