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- mikeboll64,April wrote:
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Quote Charles, does Rev 3:12 clearly show that Jesus and his God have two different names? YES or NO? Mike,
NO!and YES!
THAT DOESN'T CONFIRM THAT THE OLD NAME WAS REALLY GOD'S OR JESUS'
IT COULD HAVE BEEN SATAN'S AS GOD OF THE WORLD!
BUT SINCE IT CONCERNS THE WORD MADE FLESH, JESUS, AND AS I SAID IN THE PREVIOUS POST JESUS IS PARADOXICAL, IT ALSO IS BOTH GOD'S NAME AND THE JESUS' NAME, THE WORD
NOW THE NEW NAME WOULD BE BOTH GOD'S THE FATHER AND JESUS' SINCE THEY ARE UNITED AS ONE TRUE GOD.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ April 09 2013,13:19) ACCORDING TO YOU HE IS NOT CAPABLE TO TRANSFORM HIMSELF AS MEDIATOR IN ORDER TO ACCEPT US
I never said “not capable”, Charles. But the scriptures teach us the God SENT His Son – not that God Himself came.Quote (carmel @ April 09 2013,13:19) WHO IS THIS SUPER MEDIATOR WHO IS IN FULL AUTHORITY AND WITHOUT HIM, YOUR ALMIGHTY THE ONLY TRUE GOD THE FATHER IS USELESS FOR US?
The mediator is Jesus, and it is true that his God gave him a ton of authority. But you have it twisted, my friend. It is JESUS who can do nothing without his God – not the other way around.Consider King David and the leader of his army, Joab. What you said above is equivalent to me saying David was useless to do anything without his servant, Joab – as if the servant was greater than or equal to his master. Just because the king assigned Joab certain tasks does not mean the king was unable to do those tasks himself, does it?
Keep it straight, Charles. Joab's authority was dependent upon King David GIVING HIM that authority – not the other way around. And similarly, Jesus' authority is dependent upon his God GIVING HIM that authority – not the other way around.
Quote (carmel @ April 09 2013,14:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2013,12:38) Charles, does Rev 3:12 clearly show that Jesus and his God have two different names? YES or NO?
Mike,NOW THE NEW NAME WOULD BE BOTH GOD'S THE FATHER AND JESUS' SINCE THEY ARE UNITED AS ONE TRUE GOD.
But see how you're still talking about ONE name? Why would you do that when it is clear from 3:12 that Jesus has one name, and the one Jesus calls “my God” has a different one?Quote (carmel @ April 09 2013,14:27) SO ONLY WHO IS IN THE TRUTH, AND TO WHOM THE SON OF MAN WANTS TO REVEAL IT,WOULD SEE IT!
I could say the same thing, Charles, but it wouldn't prove anything, right?For example, I could say that Judges 2:4 proves that Jesus is a polka dotted unicorn, and that this “truth” of scripture is only revealed to the ones to whom Jesus wishes to reveal it.
It wouldn't make my claim true, would it?
Unless you can show me CLEAR wording in Hebrews 1 that says Jesus died a different kind of death than the rest of us, I suggest we move on to your next “proof text”.
So, what's your next scripture that says Jesus died differently than we do?
MIKE SAID:I never said “not capable”, Charles. But the scriptures teach us the God SENT His Son – not that God Himself came.
of course mike. GOd sent his son.
but you must also know that his son is like him. his son is also God by nature.example mike is you and your father.
your father is human, you are also humanmikeboll64,April wrote:.
Quote The mediator is Jesus, and it is true that his God gave him a ton of authority. But you have it twisted, my friend. It is JESUS who can do nothing without his God – not the other way around. Mike,
Wrong God almighty did all he could in the OT.
But for a reason or another, he couldn't achieve his aim.
Again not that he was not in the position to do that . HE COULD HAVE ACHIEVED ALL HIS KINGDOM IN A STAGGERING AND UNFATHOMABLE WAY IN LESS THEN A SECOND,SIMPLY PRONOUNCE HIS WORD!
BUT WHAT WOULD HE HAVE REALLY ACHIEVED,
OBVIOUS THAT HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD, THEREFORE NOTHING!
REMAINED AS HE WAS!
AND WE SIMPLY WOULD HAVE BEEN HIS BITS AND PIECES.
BUT AS IT IS WE WOULD BECOME GODS LIKE HIM,SINCE HE BECAME LIKE US IN JESUS, THE WORD,ALL IN JESUS'BODY, THE SON'S KINGDOM.AND THE FATHER IN JESUS.
GOD'S KINGDOM. ALL IN ALL
SO IN THE OT HE WAS USELESS, for the simple reason that :
HE WAS HANDICAPPED SINCE HE WAS A SPIRIT,LIKE HIS ENEMIES.
WHATEVER HE DID IT WAS NOT IN THE TRUTH ENOUGH FOR HUMANS WHO WAS DOING THE WORK,WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE FATHERS,AND THE PROPHETS WHICH WERE ALL THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT WORK, AND SATAN WAS MANIPULATING ALL HUMANS ALL THE TIME.
THEREFORE GOD THROUGH
HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND PROCLAIMED HIMSELF AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, IN JESUS CHRIST.
NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT
HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS CHRIST FROM RESURRECTION BECAME ONE BEING WITH THE FATHER THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND HE,TOGETHER WITH THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
THE FATHER IS ONLY THERE JUST FOR THE NAME! HE IS INACTIVE. HE IS FUNCTIONING ONLY THROUGH JESUS, THE WORD, AS THE MEDIATOR! AS HE WORKED THROUGHOUT ALL THESE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS TO CREATE OUR WORLD.
THE FATHER WOULD BECOME DIRECTLY ACTIVE AFTER JESUS, AGAIN AS THE MEDIATOR JUDGE THE ENTIRE CREATION.
THEN OBVIOUS, THERE WON'T BE ANY USE OF THE MEDIATOR ANYMORE, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT ALL CREATION WOULD EVENTUALLY ACCEPT JESUS, THE WORD IN HIS NEW NAME AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
THE FATHER RIGHT NOW ,OBVIOUS THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT IS MAKING JESUS' ENEMIES HIS FOOTSTOOL.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:20) kerwin,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Jesus' body did not decay because he was not dead long enough. Kerwin,
All what you posted is IRRELEVANT to my post.
You never commented anything regarding the scriptures which I posted.
Regarding the above statement, Jesus' body changed.ALTHOUGH DECAY WAS NOT EVIDENTLY ACTIVE YET!
Once a person is dead ,
IT IS DEFINITELY IN A DIFFERENT STATE THEN WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. NEVER MIND THE DECAY.
JESUS' BODY NEVER CHANGED AT ALL. HE REMAINED ALIVE IN THE STATE HE WAS IN!ALTHOUGH HIS BODY WAS EVIDENTLY DEAD FOR ALL THOSE WHO WERE PRESENT.
JESUS'BODY WAS IN ITS SPIRITUAL PROCESS.
IT WAS BEING TRANSFORMED INTO A SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY!
SO SINCE ACCORDING TO YOU THE DECAY PROCESS WAS NOT YET EFFECTED,ALTHOUGH AS I SAID,
HE DEFINITELY SEEMED THAT HE WAS NOT IN THE SAME STATE LIKE WHEN HE WAS STILL ALIVE,
IT STRENGTHENED MY POINT THAT SINCE,ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES, HE CONTINUED IN THE SAME STATE,THEREFORE:
HE CONTINUED IN HIS ORIGINAL STATE OF THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS .
THEREFORE HE WAS NOT DEAD LIKE WE DO
MORE TO COME!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Charles,The statement “my body will not see decay” clearly means Jesus' death would be short.
Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:32) NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
That's right, Charles. Jesus' God gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”, right?Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2013,11:32) Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:32) NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
That's right, Charles. Jesus' God gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”, right?Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority.
who said that? those who believe that jesus is the father are oneness.of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.Quote Unless you can show me CLEAR wording in Hebrews 1 that says Jesus died a different kind of death than the rest of us, I suggest we move on to your next “proof text”. Mike,
The chemist sells only what he has in stock:
So you also have to do the same:
FIND CLEAR WORDING WHICH SAYS JESUS DIED LIKE WE DO!
NOT SUFFER DEATH, WHICH SINCE HE SUFFERED IT PROVED ALSO THAT HE REMAINED ALIVE.
NOT TASTED DEATH SINCE IF HE TASTED DEATH IT PROVED ALSO THAT HE REMAINED ALIVE.
NOT HIS DEATH,SINCE IF IT IS HIS DEATH IT PROVED ALSO THAT IT IS UNIQUE.
NOT AMONG THE DEAD, SINCE BEING AMONG THE DEAD IT PROVED ALSO THAT HE COULD NOT BE DEAD AT ALL
THE ABOVE IS ENOUGH SINCE YOU DO NOT LIKE MUCH READING WHAT DOESN'T PLEASE YOUR EARS!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority. Mike,
I am aware of your belief,of the ONENESS ONLY OF GOD
Which is an error in itself for the simple reason that God wanted to function as a triune God as well, in order to establish himself as the word
In this function God enclosed himself within His genuine Son's spirit as the mediator and created our world first through DARKNESS himself,
then completely hidden within darkness and souls,from Adam, onwards,
then eliminated darkness on the cross, He is within humans and He will never abandon them again till all souls return to Him.AT ALL COSTS!But
Jeremiah 31:33 this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my law in their bowels, and I will write it in their heart: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Now that kind of redemption process was achieved by God as the word
GOD HIMSELF IN THE :
FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT FUNCTION, THE WORD, AS A MEDIATOR!
THREE SPIRITS, AND ALSO ONE!
CURRENTLY THE FATHER IS FUNCTIONING THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN THE SON,THE WORD, AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD
THE FATHER REMAINED AS A SPIRIT AS HE WAS.
SO GOD ENRICHED HIMSELF THROUGH THIS PROCESS!
HE INCREASED HIS RICHES NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY GENUINE SPIRIT OF HIS SON AS SUBSTANCE OF THE WHOLE CREATION, WHERE HE STILL IS AS BOTH SPIRITUAL ,AND CARNAL CREATURES!
SO GOD IS MANIFESTED IN THE ENTIRE CREATION! NO MATTER WHAT!
THAT'S WHY HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jammin @ April 11 2013,09:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2013,11:32) Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:32) NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
That's right, Charles. Jesus' God gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”, right?Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority.
who said that? those who believe that jesus is the father are oneness.of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
Jamein,So you claim there is both Yawheh the Father and Yawheh the Son. That makes you polytheistic.
I will go with the monotheistic Yawheh of Jesus, Abraham, and Isaac.
Quote (jammin @ April 10 2013,21:15) of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
That adds up to TWO Gods, jammin. I believe in ONE Almighty God.Quote (carmel @ April 11 2013,00:25) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Unless you can show me CLEAR wording in Hebrews 1 that says Jesus died a different kind of death than the rest of us, I suggest we move on to your next “proof text”.
Mike,The chemist sells only what he has in stock:
If none of the things he has in stock work like they're supposed to, why would I buy them?
Quote (carmel @ April 11 2013,00:25) So you also have to do the same: FIND CLEAR WORDING WHICH SAYS JESUS DIED LIKE WE DO!
I already showed you this, but here goes………..1 Corinthians 15:12
Now if Christ is being preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?Charles, suppose Paul taught that Jesus died a DIFFERENT kind of death than the rest of us do. His argument in the verse above would then be null and void – because the people who were saying there is no resurrection from the dead were talking about the resurrection of THEMSELVES (ie: normal people like you and me).
How convincing would Paul have been to them if he said it your way………………
People, listen! The fact that Christ was resurrected from the dead is proof that there really IS a resurrection, and it will also apply to US! But on second thought, Jesus didn't really die the same way we do, so therefore he wasn't really resurrected from the dead like we want to be. And since that is the case, I don't know what to tell you about YOUR resurrection. I guess we can't use Jesus as an example for people who REALLY die – because Jesus didn't REALLY die like the rest of us do.
How many people would Paul have convinced if he told it YOUR way, Charles?
Quote (carmel @ April 11 2013,12:53) God wanted to function as a triune God………
No Charles. God is one. He (not “THEY”) has a Son named Jesus who He sent into the world as His sacrificial Lamb.And just like you and your son are not the same being, neither is God and His Son.
Let all work out this one.
My father is greater than I.
Eli Eli lama sabachtany; My God my God,why have you forsaken me.
My father is my God and your God.
I am alpha and omega, the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore:
I am of the root of the offspring of David,and the bright and morning star.
Beside me there is no saviour.
Is there a God beside me? No there is no God.
Thus said the Lord the king of israel,and his redeemer
the Lord of host. I am the first and the last,beside me there is no God.I give you 100yrs to work it out.
wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2013,05:55) Quote (jammin @ April 11 2013,09:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2013,11:32) Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:32) NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
That's right, Charles. Jesus' God gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”, right?Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority.
who said that? those who believe that jesus is the father are oneness.of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
Jamein,So you claim there is both Yawheh the Father and Yawheh the Son. That makes you polytheistic.
I will go with the monotheistic Yawheh of Jesus, Abraham, and Isaac.
i believe that there are two persons but one in nature or essence.just like you and your father. you are two persons but ONE in nature, HUMAN.
Christ and his father are one in nature, God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,12:44) Quote (jammin @ April 10 2013,21:15) of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
That adds up to TWO Gods, jammin. I believe in ONE Almighty God.
LOLwhy did you say ALMIGHTY?
bec you believe that there is also god right? LOL
i believe that there are two persons but one in nature or essence.
just like you and your father. you are two persons but ONE in nature, HUMAN.
Christ and his father are one in nature, God.
Quote (jammin @ April 12 2013,10:16) Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2013,05:55) Quote (jammin @ April 11 2013,09:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2013,11:32) Quote (carmel @ April 10 2013,00:32) NOT AS YOU SAID MIKE, I'M AFRAID HE GAVE HIM a ton of authorityBUT HE GAVE HIM THE ENTIRE AUTHORITY.
That's right, Charles. Jesus' God gave Jesus “all authority in heaven and on earth”, right?Just that one little verse is enough to prove that Jesus is not the “God” who gave him all this authority.
who said that? those who believe that jesus is the father are oneness.of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
Jamein,So you claim there is both Yawheh the Father and Yawheh the Son. That makes you polytheistic.
I will go with the monotheistic Yawheh of Jesus, Abraham, and Isaac.
i believe that there are two persons but one in nature or essence.just like you and your father. you are two persons but ONE in nature, HUMAN.
Christ and his father are one in nature, God.
Jammin,That is still two Yahwehs just as my father and I are two humans.
I worship only one Yawheh and give obeisance to King Jesus above others just as David did when Saul was king.
Quote (jammin @ April 12 2013,15:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,12:44) Quote (jammin @ April 10 2013,21:15) of course jesus is not God the father.
you must also know that there is God the only son.
That adds up to TWO Gods, jammin. I believe in ONE Almighty God.
LOLwhy did you say ALMIGHTY?
bec you believe that there is also god right? LOL
i believe that there are two persons but one in nature or essence.
just like you and your father. you are two persons but ONE in nature, HUMAN.
Christ and his father are one in nature, God.
Amen,
they are one in nature (this is the truth otherwise you get into all sorts of weird doctrines and twisting of scriptures)The Son is one with the Father also because the Father is the Eternal Origin of the Son also. The Fathers nature is in his true Son.
You can't have an Almighlty of nothing or a Father of nothing
Their is no greater testomony of the eternal display of the Fathers Almightly power than the revelation of the Fathers Son (Word).
One in essence means the Father dwells in the Son just as the Son dwells in the Father
John 14:9 – 10
Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
I have read your post mike and I have the answers for you, will post them probably after the weekend.
Yes I believe Jesus is the greatest messager but to say that this is why you believe he is an angel is a huge leap of faith especially when scriptures reveals jesus as the great God and saviour not the great angel and saviour.the Word was God
not the Word was an angel
the Word then became flesh.
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