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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2012,21:58) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,19:10) Mike,
This is a good translation of Phil 2:6 to show you the view that fits best, imo.Philippians 2:6-11
New International Version (NIV)
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God (the Father) something to be used to his own advantage;
I'd like to add that footnote “A” in your translation says, “Or in the form of“.
Kathi, you didn't list what you think was meant by the first “God”. Would you do so?
I'd also like to know how you came to your conclusion that the first use of “God” has a different meaning than the second use of “God” in the same sentence.
Mike,
The first 'God' is a word that is in contrast to 'servant.'God would mean 'a type of nature that would be served as God.'
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 20 2012,20:14) Mike, With all curiousity,
What do you mean by Jesus being tempted?
For example.Do you mean, Jesus had a desire to sin, but didn't?
or something else?
I didn't think you were serious at first, D.Are you unaware of the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness? I don't necessarily “have a desire to sin” when I am tempted. Doesn't the word “tempted” imply as much?
To me, it implies that one is sitting there minding their own business, not even thinking about sinning, when something or someone TEMPTS them to sin.
Satan TEMPTED Jesus to sin, although Jesus didn't act on that temptation and sin.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,21:01) Mike, Quote But could you tell jammin that “God the only SON” is not a viable translation of “monogenes theos”? I think that jammin understands monogenes theos as the only begotten God. I think that what you have in quote marks, he means to say 'the only begotten God that is the only begotten Son.'
No. He actually thinks he knows Greek and that “monogenes theos” MEANS “God the only Son”.Please tell him it doesn't. Perhaps he'll listen to you, because he surely doesn't listen to any of the rest of us.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2012,08:34) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 20 2012,20:14) Mike, With all curiousity,
What do you mean by Jesus being tempted?
For example.Do you mean, Jesus had a desire to sin, but didn't?
or something else?
I didn't think you were serious at first, D.Are you unaware of the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness? I don't necessarily “have a desire to sin” when I am tempted. Doesn't the word “tempted” imply as much?
To me, it implies that one is sitting there minding their own business, not even thinking about sinning, when something or someone TEMPTS them to sin.
Satan TEMPTED Jesus to sin, although Jesus didn't act on that temptation and sin.
Hi Mike,I am very aware about the the event at the wilderness.
I just wanted to know plainly what you mean, what you think it means, and how you define certain words.
Quote I don't necessarily “have a desire to sin” when I am tempted. Doesn't the word “tempted” imply as much?
Actually no, I disagree in a sense. Im trying to gather my thoughts and see if I can tell you what I mean with the right words.
Temptation is a two way street. There is the Tempter and the Victim. The Fishermen, The bait, and the prey.
The Tempter attracts (Tempt) his prey to nibble on the bait, so he can lure it in. For the prey to bite on the bait, it must have a desire to do so. If the prey has no desire to do so, than it cannot be tempted.
Ill give you an example.
“Apeal” and “Attract” are two synonyms of “Tempt”.
“The offer tempts me.”
“The book tempted me to read more on the subject.”
“He gave me a offer I can't refuse”<
Could you agree with me so far? or no?
You with me so far, or should I increase the volume to your hearing aid?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,21:05) Mike,
The first 'God' is a word that is in contrast to 'servant.'God would mean 'a type of nature that would be served as God.'
So then like this?6 Who, being in very nature someone that should be served as God,
did not consider equality with God (the Father) something to be used to his own advantage;Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 20 2012,21:53) You with me so far, or should I increase the volume to your hearing aid?
Seems to me like you're waxing philosophical. (Yep, that's something us old guys with hearing aids say sometimes. )I sometimes pray to God at the top of my…….. mind, I guess…………. that He would stop me from thinking certain sinful thoughts.
I don't have a conscious desire to think these things, since the thoughts themselves are sins, according to Jesus – but the thoughts pop in my head regardless.
Now, am I DESIRING these thoughts to pop into my head? No. Am I tempted by these thoughts? Yes.
SimplyForgiven,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I am very aware about the the event at the wilderness. Simplyforgiven,
Read and reflect:
Matthew 4:1THEN Jesus was led by the spirit into the desert,
TO BE TEMPTED
by the devil.
Jesus purposely was sent by God himself through the Holy Spirit.
DID YOU EVER REFLECTED THIS???
The scripture uses the word tempted!
I myself prefer the word TESTED!
Since he was forced by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus had to confirm that HE WAS FULLY MAN.
Now read :
Luke 4:1 AND JESUS BEING FULL OF THE HOLY GHOST,
returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the desert,
4:14 14 And Jesus
RETURNED IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,
into Galilee, and the fame of him went out through the whole country
So Jesus is confirmed through scripture THAT HE, WHILE BEING IN THE FULL POWER OF GOD'S SPIRIT,WAS LED TO THE DESERT PURPOSELY TO BE TEMPTED/ TESTED BY SATAN IN ORDER TO CONFIRM HIMSELF THAT AFTER ALL GOD IN JESUS CHRIST ACHIEVED
MANHOOD IN FULL.
THIS IS CONFIRMED BY THE WORDS :
RETURNED IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,
So Jesus while He was in the desert was a normal human being left in His free will to do what He Himself felt to do,but since he was sinless, sin didn't have power over Jesus.
He was a perfect man.
The most difficult task for God to Achieve :
God through Jesus battled throughout the creation of our world, and as man on earth,
AGAINST ALL ODDS!!!
AND AS HE SAID :
JOHN 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw
ALL THINGS TO MYSELF.
Jeremiah 32:27 Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh:
SHALL ANYTHING BE HARD FOR ME ?
SO IT IS CONFIRMED SINCE GOD STATED SO!!!
GOD OF ALL FLESH:
BOTH SPIRITUAL FLESH AND BLOODY FLESH IN JESUS!!!
SATAN WAS ONLY AWARE THAT JESUS WAS GOD IN FLESH ,
WHEN JESUS WAS TAKEN BY SATAN DOWN TO HELL UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT HE WAS A CRIMINAL AND WAS STUNNED TO SE JESUS IN FLESH TESTED BY THE HOTTEST FIRE OF HELL WHICH SATAN HIMSELF,WHICH WAS HIS ABODE COULDN'T RESIST EVEN AS A SPIRIT.
SYMBOLIZED IN THE BURNING BUSH OF MOSES
2 Samuel 22:31 God, his way is immaculate, the word of the Lord is tried by fire: he is the shield of all that trust in him
Psalm 17:3 3 Thou hast proved my heart, and visited it by night,
THOU HAST TRIED ME BY FIRE :
and iniquity hath not been found in me.
ONLY JESUS HAD NO INQUITY!!!
THEY ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 21 2012,17:34) Simplyforgiven, The scripture uses the word tempted!
I myself prefer the word TESTED!
Since he was forced by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus had to confirm that HE WAS FULLY MAN.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles,Funny how you like the word “Tested” but not 'tempted', yet
you choose to use the word 'forced' rather than “Led”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (carmel @ Oct. 21 2012,17:34) Simplyforgiven, 2 Samuel 22:31 God, his way is immaculate, the word of the Lord is tried by fire: he is the shield of all that trust in him
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles, good verse!“he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” (Rev 19:15)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2012,10:13) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 20 2012,21:53) You with me so far, or should I increase the volume to your hearing aid?
Seems to me like you're waxing philosophical. (Yep, that's something us old guys with hearing aids say sometimes. )I sometimes pray to God at the top of my…….. mind, I guess…………. that He would stop me from thinking certain sinful thoughts.
I don't have a conscious desire to think these things, since the thoughts themselves are sins, according to Jesus – but the thoughts pop in my head regardless.
Now, am I DESIRING these thoughts to pop into my head? No. Am I tempted by these thoughts? Yes.
Hey Mike,Louder? Hiiiiii MIKEEEEE can you HEARRRR ME NOWW?
Good? OK
You see im glad you answerd my question because now I understand a little more about what you believe temptation is.
I want to talk more about it, but I don't want to be rude? should I make a seperate thread?
Charles,
I was just about to go to sleep, when I bumped into your speculatoins about temptation but I don't know why?
Ill tell you what, If Mike wants me to make a sperate thread about it, than Ill respond. but until than no thanks.
by the way let me correct you on some of your speculations.
Quote So Jesus while He was in the desert was a normal human being left in His free will to do what He Himself felt to do,but since he was sinless, sin didn't have power over Jesus.
1.There is no such thing as freewill.
2. Jesus felt like fasting.Quote The most difficult task for God to Achieve
There isn't a task that is difficult for God.Quote SATAN WAS ONLY AWARE THAT JESUS WAS GOD IN FLESH , WHEN JESUS WAS TAKEN BY SATAN DOWN TO HELL UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT HE WAS A CRIMINAL AND WAS STUNNED TO SE JESUS IN FLESH TESTED BY THE HOTTEST FIRE OF HELL WHICH SATAN HIMSELF,WHICH WAS HIS ABODE COULDN'T RESIST EVEN AS A SPIRIT.
Everything you said here is unbiblical and only conjectures on your part. You made all that up sir, I know your going to hate more for saying it but its true.
Jesus wasn't taken by Satan to Hell. No where does the bible say that Satan runs hell in the first place. Actually God is the one run's hell, did you know that?
Satan was under no impression that Jesus was a criminal, go look for the word in the bible where it states so. What is the hottest fire of hell? You see what i mean, this is all a religious fanatasy that your trying to use as conviction to what your saying.It holds no truth to it.
So its either your porpously lying or your just deluded.Quote SYMBOLIZED IN THE BURNING BUSH OF MOSES 2 Samuel 22:31 God, his way is immaculate, the word of the Lord is tried by fire: he is the shield of all that trust in him
Psalm 17:3 3 Thou hast proved my heart, and visited it by night,
THOU HAST TRIED ME BY FIRE :
and iniquity hath not been found in me.
ONLY JESUS HAD NO INQUITY!!!
THEY ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Ok.. so now you think Jesus was tested by fire?
What If I told you that God is hell than what?
What If I told you that God is the hottest fire there is?based on this scripture
Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.What say you?
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2012,12:02) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 21 2012,17:34) Simplyforgiven, The scripture uses the word tempted!
I myself prefer the word TESTED!
Since he was forced by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus had to confirm that HE WAS FULLY MAN.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles,Funny how you like the word “Tested” but not 'tempted', yet
you choose to use the word 'forced' rather than “Led”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,Good one, I didn't see that.
another correction, Jesus wasn't forced.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2012,14:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,21:01) Mike, Quote But could you tell jammin that “God the only SON” is not a viable translation of “monogenes theos”? I think that jammin understands monogenes theos as the only begotten God. I think that what you have in quote marks, he means to say 'the only begotten God that is the only begotten Son.'
No. He actually thinks he knows Greek and that “monogenes theos” MEANS “God the only Son”.Please tell him it doesn't. Perhaps he'll listen to you, because he surely doesn't listen to any of the rest of us.
did you study greek mike??
talk to me when you have formal studies in greek.we are not like you mike.
if the bible says GOD THE ONLY SON, we believe that and greek scholars agree to that.i say what the bible says.
what you say is not in the bible.
if i say GOD THE ONLY SON, i can read that in the bible. but if you say FORM OF HIS GOD, you cant read that in the bible.this only proves that you are a false teacher and do not know how to understand the context of the bible
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2012,13:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2012,19:16) Mike,
I heard a scholar talk about this and he explained how it can mean 'only unique kind' which an only begotten God would be.
The Greek word “genes” comes from the word “ginomai”, which generally means “generated”. But Jesus can't LITERALLY be God's ONLY generated son, for God has generated many sons.I agree that it must have an implied meaning of “unique” – as in “uniquely generated”.
But could you tell jammin that “God the only SON” is not a viable translation of “monogenes theos”?
uniquely generated?? read your words mike in john 1.18if you can read your illusion, then you have a point. but if you cant read that, you have to study mike before talking
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2012,19:30) Charles, 1.There is no such thing as freewill.
2. Jesus felt like fasting.What say you?
Hi Dennison,These two ideas are contradictory – are they not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2012,14:05) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2012,19:30) Charles, 1.There is no such thing as freewill.
2. Jesus felt like fasting.What say you?
Hi Dennison,These two ideas are contradictory – are they not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
2. I was guessing on that one. Its more like the bible says he was fasting so than he fasted.And no its not contradicting either way, because there isn't a will that is free to do anything. There are options, possibilities, and limitations.
Like I said before. Than again, Jesus was in the desert, what else can you do but fast -_-
Free will is an explaination of man saying that God has no influence nor control on peoples choices, Which isn't true.
Hi Dennison,
What is your view on this verse than?
“Choose you this day whom ye will serve;
whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood,
or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house,
we will serve the LORD.” (Josh 24:15)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2012,19:30) Charles, There is no such thing as freewill.
Hi Dennison, shall we rip this verse out of our bibles then?“I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem,
go with thee.” (Ezra 7:13)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote The Father is not also the Son I agree!
BUT AS PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD
THERE’S ONLY ONE DIVINE GOD
The Son is the same spirit of the Father.
John1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.
Jesus was born as a human being through the Holy Spirit from the Father.
Jesus in His soul as a human being had the Spirit of the Father.
Read and reflect:
Jeremiah 32:41 ……………………….
with my whole heart, JESUS' FOR SURE, SINCE THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT
and with all my soul. JESUS’ SOUL FOR SURE IS GOD’S SOUL
SINCE THE SOULS WERE CREATED BY GOD FOR SINFUL CREATURES TO ACT AS A MEDIATOR BETWEEN HIM AND HIS CREATURES.
Quote Only the Son could open the seals, not even the Father. The Father did not become the kinsman redeemer who had to be human. The Son became human and was the second Adam. The second Adam redeemed what the first Adam lost. YES, AGAIN,
But that it doesn't mean that the Father COULDN'T OPEN THE SEALS,
SINCE THEY ARE ONE SPIRIT WHATEVER THE SON DID, AND DOES, THE FATHER IS ALSO GLORIFIED.
SO RATHER,THERE'S NO NEED FOR THE FATHER TO DO THINGS HIMSELF SINCE THROUGH HIS SON HE IS GLORIFIED!!!
HE GAVE ALL POWER PURPOSELY TO HIS SON, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE BECAME POWERLESS!!!
GOD ALWAYS DOES THINGS TO ADD TO HIS RICHES!!!
BEFORE OUR CREATION GOD WAS ONLY IN COMMAND OF THE HEAVENS.
WHEN JESUS’SPIRIT LEFT THE FATHER GOD RECREATED OUR WORLD BY HIM, IN HIM, AND FOR HIM.
WHEN JESUS STARTED HIS MISSION GOD WALKED ON EARTH AND DEMONSTRATED HIS ATTRIBUTES IN HUMAN FLESH.
WHEN JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS GOD ERADICATED THE EVIL WORLD THROUGH HIM.
WHEN JESUS RESURRECTED, GOD RECREATED OUR CREATION SPIRITUALLY ANEW.
BEFORE JESUS LEFT THIS WORLD HE CONFIRMED THAT HE WON THE WORLD AND THROUGH HIM, GOD IS IN COMMAND OF BOTH HEAVEN AND EARTH.
SO WITH THE SON, THE FATHER ADDED ALL THINGS WHICH HIS SON ACHIEVED THROUGH HIM!!! WHICH ARE THE ENTIRE OF CREATION.
THE SON’S KINGDOM.
GOD’S KINGDOM.
WHEN JESUS STATED:
GOD’S KINGDOM ON EARTH IS AT HAND, IT WAS A REFERENCE TO HIMSELF ON EARTH.
JESUS CONFIRMED:
ALL THAT MY FATHER HAS ARE MINE!!!
THEREFORE GOD THE FATHER ALTHOUGH HE COULDN'T DIE AS GOD, HE IS STILL OUR SAVIOUR, AND ALSO EXPERIENCED FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, BIRTH, DEATH AND EVERY HUMAN CHARACTERISTIC THROUGH JESUS.
SO WHILE THE SON HAS THE RIGHT TO OPEN THE SEALS, THE FATHER ALSO WOULD EXPERIENCE THIS VITAL PERFOMANCE IN EVERY SENSE LIKE HE IS PERFORMING IT HIMSELF.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
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