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Kerwin,
Quote My point is that there is but one God and he is Jehovah. You can find plenty of places in Scripture where he is not referred to as “his God” or “your God” because it is clear the God being spoken of is Jehovah. True, but we define God in this verse differently and Jehovah differently.
I see God in some contexts as meaning the highest authority which could be more than one person existing in unity with another, acting in unity with another (what one does, the other cooperates), and both having authority together over all creation.The word Jehovah, here represents to me anyone with eternal existence, distinguished as one of two beings in some contexts or the unity of those two beings in other contexts. I understand two eternal presences, one who is an eternal presence who is God of gods (the Father) and an eternal presence who is Lord of lords, Jesus is Lord of lords.
Deut 10:17
For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh rewardJehovah here is two presences as one authority.
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote The God of Jesus raised His servant Jesus from the dead Mike,
THAT IS A REFERENCE TO THE FLESH BODY OF JESUS ONLY.
JESUS IS NOT JUST A FLESH BODY.
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING.
THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
JESUS HAD THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER WITHIN THAT BODY WHEN HE WAS ALIVE!!!
therefore GOD IN FLESH
JESUS HAD A SOUL FOR THE FATHER TO ABIDE WITHIN ,AND THAS SOUL WAS IN THAT DEAD BODY!!!
JESUS' SPIRIT (THE FATHER'S)RAISED THAT DEAD BODY!!!
NOT DEAD JESUS,
JESUS IN FULL IS
THE SPIRIT
THE SOUL
THE FLESH
ALL OF ONE TRIUNE GOD
JEREMIAH: 32:41:43
John 2:1:11Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days
I WILL RAISE IT UP.
Isn't that enough to confirm that Jesus through the HOLY SPIRIT raised His OWN FLESH BODY???
WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL NOT BE CALLED MIKE ANYMORE.
BUT THE SKELETEN OF MIKE.
BOTH YOUR SPIRIT,AND YOUR SOUL WOULD BECOME THE NEW MIKE,ACCORDING TO WHAT YOUR BODY DID,AND HOW YOUR BODY BEHAVED IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE NEW SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY.
NOT THAT SAME CORRUPTED BODY YOU OWNED WHILE ALIVE ON EARTH.
JESUS SAID :
I WILL RAISE IT UP, NOT I WILL RAISE MYSELF UP, TO MAKE US AWARE THAT HE WAS REFERING TO THE DEAD BODY,AND ALSO THAT HE WAS REFERING TO HIS SPIRIT OF THE FATHER.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:37) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) You look at Jesus only as a human being, I look at Jesus as fully Human and as fully God.
I look at Jesus as God's first creation, who existed in the form of his God as a spirit being before emptying himself and being made into a human being.He was always something more than “just human”, and he has never been “fully God”. Even now, after he has been exalted to the highest position BY HIS GOD, he is still not God, but the Servant who sits at God's right hand.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
BOTH GOD, SPIRITWISE AND JESUS CHRIST, FLESHWISE!!!
There's one our biggest differences, Charles. I read the words “God AND Jesus Christ” like a sane person, and recognize that TWO are being discussed, only ONE of whom is “God”.You apparently read it differently, and for some reason conclude that the words “God AND Jesus Christ” mean “God AND God” or something.
My understanding of those words is logical, and will work anytime the words “blank AND blank” are used. Your understanding is illogical, which is why you claim this nonsense ONLY in the case of God and Jesus.
For example, if you read “Solomon AND David”, you would NEVER come to the asinine conclusion that they were both the same being. I could use a trillion different examples for you, and you would come to the sane and sensible conclusion each and every time…………… EXCEPT in the case of God and his servant Jesus Christ.
Isn't that a little biased, Charles? Doesn't it show that you are capable of understanding logical concepts, but since the logical conclusion doesn't support your doctrine, you are willing to toss logic aside in the case of God and His holy Servant Jesus Christ?
Quote My understanding of those words is logical, Mike,
Answer this question:
Is LOGIC REASONING A PROOF OF THE TRUTH???
YES OR NO
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,20:34) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 13 2012,07:35) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,17:21) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,22:28) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 11 2012,09:31) F So your debate is deceitful ,just as the words you using are ambiguous ,right
T,Is speaking English deceitful because words are ambiguous?
I would use fluid as the meaning changes with context just as both Greek and Hebrew words do. Some contexts do create a certain amount of ambitiousness that can lead to miscommunications.
Kerwinnice try but you mist the point ,i was not talking about the language but about the use of ambiguous words in that language ,and his knowingly used to make others fall in a trap.you are very good at it ,
I DO NOT RECALL GOD USING SUCH A VOCABULARY AND INTENTION,
it becomes obvious that the ones using those means are not true in their hearts ,and so do not have truth in mind when speaking.THIS IS NOT THE WAY OF CHRIST ,NOR OF HIS TRUE FOLLOWERS
T,God uses ambiguous words for the same reason Jesus speaks in parables.
Those who seek his righteousness and kingdom will come to understand them.
I doubt that either you or Frank do not understand that when Scripture speaks of the people worshiping their it does not mean the same as them worshiping Jehovah.
kQuote God uses ambiguous words for the same reason Jesus speaks in parables. I disagree with you ,God does not use ambiguous words ,and the reason for Jesus speaking in parables is not to be ambiguous,
T,I am speaking ambiguous as “We were confused by the ambiguous wording of the message.”
Matthew 13:13-16
King James Version (KJV)13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.The hearts of the sinful do not understand the ambiguous message as they “deviseth wicked imaginations”, Proverbs 6:18 while the hearts of the righteous “studieth to answer”, Proverbs 15:28, and so do understand the message even though it is ambiguous.
KERWINno,scriptures are not ambiguous ,it is the men mind and heart that his ,but you also do not want to see it ,
the gospel is offered to all what make it to be rejected by most got nothing to do with the message but with the hearing of the heart ,
1Th 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith.
1Th 3:11 Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you.
1Th 3:12 May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1Th 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.1Th 2:10 You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1Th 2:11 For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children,
1Th 2:12 encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory1Th 2:3 For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you.
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote For example, if you read “Solomon AND David”, you would NEVER come to the asinine conclusion that they were both the same being Mike,
That’s what is wrong with you as I already told you.
You always compare God, and Jesus with MORTAL SINFUL CREATURES.
Solomon and David are two INDIVDUAL identical CARNAL CREATURES IN EVERY SENSE.
The Father and the Son although they WERE not the same identical substances in that moment in time Jesus spoke to His Father.
THEY WERE BOTH IN THE PERSON OF JESUS AS ONE HUMAN BEING THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THEREFORE JESUS PERSON WAS:
THE SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER
THE SOUL FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE FLESH FROM THE SON'S SPIRIT.
SO GOD from the Father's spirit side, and human from the Soul and flesh of the Holy Spirit and Jesus' side respetively.
1John5:7And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one
Reflect on the end of the first verse!!
John 17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come,
glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
The fact that Jesus spoke those words let us be aware THOUGH, that the Father, through the Holy Spirit, would no longer remain a spirit being only,but:
ACQUIRE the FLESH SUBSTANCE WHICH EVENTUALLY WOULD BE ACHIEVED,THROUGH THAT SAME JESUS' FLESH SUBSTANCE WHICH WAS TEMPORARY THE VESSEL FOR JESUS' SOUL,and the ABODE OF THE FATHER'S SPIRIT
Now answer this:
How did the Father glorify His Son and in the same time the Son glorified His Father???
Through LOGICAL REASONING YOU SHOULD GET SOME TRUTH REGARDING THE GLORIFICATION OF BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON IN ONE INSTANT.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 13 2012,14:44) To ALL, Yahshua is not the first of Yahweh's creation as Mike deceptively teaches! Yahshua is the first of ALL creation…….
I was under the impression that ALL creation IS Yahweh's creation – since Yahweh created ALL things.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,14:50) In Jeremiah God is refering to Jesus as HIMSELF.
Charles,Exodus 7
15 Go to Pharaoh in the morning as he goes out to the water. Wait on the bank of the Nile to meet him, and take in your hand the staff that was changed into a snake.17 This is what the Lord says: By this you will know that I am the Lord: With the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood.
Whose hand was the staff actually in? Moses' hand, right? How then does Jehovah say the staff was in HIS hand? And who actually struck the Nile with that staff? Moses, right? How then does Jehovah say HE will strike the Nile?
Charles, will you use the wording of this passage to claim that Moses is Jehovah as well? Or do you only make these illogical conclusions when it comes to Jesus?
Please give me your explanation of why the staff was in the hand of Moses, but Jehovah said the staff was in HIS hand.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,14:50) So THE FATHER REMAINED IN HEAVEN, AND IN THE SAME TIME HE WAS IN JESUS
No,GOD remained in heaven, and did signs and wonders THROUGH His holy Servant Jesus Christ, whom He had sent into the world.
See? GOD is the being who remained in heaven. The SON OF GOD is the servant who was sent to die.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,14:55) Mike, Jesus was never created,
HOW ON EARTH JESUS CREATES HIMSELF???
SINCE ALL WAS CREATED BY HIM, WHATEVER IS CREATED
All things were created by God alone…………… THROUGH His holy Servant Jesus Christ.As Tertullian (a Trinitarian) aptly pointed out almost 2000 years ago:
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
God, the One who created, is one, Charles. Jesus, the one THROUGH WHOM the thing was created, is another.
Get it? ONE of them is “God”, and one of them is “another”.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation.
Mike,You are correct that I missed the tail end of it.
So why not give your NUMERICAL answer now?That also goes for Charles and jammin.
Guys, what is the NUMERICAL answer to Kathi's question?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:31) Jesus already stated that Jehovah is his God and Father as well as being his disciples, John 20:17, so why would that teaching be contradicted by Philippians 2:6?
Kathi?Do you think Paul was saying that Jesus was existing in the form of some other God than his own God? If so, which God would that be?
Or do you contend that Paul taught Jesus was existing in the form of the SPECIES known to him as “God”?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:55) Mike, I am saying that when properly used the meaning of Godhead is the same as the words “theios”, “theiotes”, or “theotes”.
Kerwin,It seems obvious to me that you can't find any current scholarly support for the translation of “Godhead” in those three KJV verses – or you would have shown that support by now.
So tell me, what does the word “Godhead” have to do with “divine nature”, or “diety”?
If “diety” just means the same thing as “god” means, then where exactly does the word “Godhead” fit in? And what does that word mean? Ie: What does it mean to say Jehovah is a “Godhead”?
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,17:57) I see God in some contexts as meaning the highest authority which could be more than one person existing in unity with another, acting in unity with another (what one does, the other cooperates), and both having authority together over all creation.
That's also how the pagans see their gods, Kathi. Hmmmmm………Quote (carmel @ Oct. 14 2012,01:13) JESUS HAD THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER WITHIN THAT BODY WHEN HE WAS ALIVE!!! therefore GOD IN FLESH
Charles, “yet for us there is but one God, THE FATHER”. If our ONE God is the Father, and Jesus had the spirit of the Father, then it is clear that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the Father, therefore someone OTHER THAN God.Quote (carmel @ Oct. 14 2012,01:13) John 2:1:11Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP.
Compare that one scripture to the many times Jesus and his disciples spoke about who exactly would/did raise Jesus from the grave.That would pit about 20 scriptures, that say the God OF Jesus raised him up, against that one scripture that doesn't mean what you try to force it to mean.
What about those other 20 scriptures, Charles? Do you just pretend that those scriptures don't exist?
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 14 2012,10:33) Mike, That’s what is wrong with you as I already told you.
You always compare God, and Jesus with MORTAL SINFUL CREATURES.
Solomon and David are two INDIVDUAL identical CARNAL CREATURES IN EVERY SENSE.
Okay,Let's change it to “Michael AND Gabriel” then. Am I speaking about TWO individual beings?
How about “Jesus AND Gabriel”? One being, or two?
How about “God AND Gabriel”? One being, or two?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:31) Jesus already stated that Jehovah is his God and Father as well as being his disciples, John 20:17, so why would that teaching be contradicted by Philippians 2:6?
Kathi?Do you think Paul was saying that Jesus was existing in the form of some other God than his own God? If so, which God would that be?
Or do you contend that Paul taught Jesus was existing in the form of the SPECIES known to him as “God”?
Mike,
I think Paul is not using the word 'God' in vs. 6 as a name but as a description of a nature. In vs. 9 he uses it as a name of a particular person, God the Father and there is the article 'the/ho' with God/theos.Philippians 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
In the passage we see an emphasis on having humility, seeing others as better than ourselves, i.e. we are not above others that we can't serve others.
You asked if Paul was speaking of a species known as 'God' but I don't think so because there is no species known as 'servant' which is used in a parallel sort of way.
See the comparison between what Jesus is and what He added to Himself:
“being in very nature God,” vs. “taking the very nature of a servant.”The gist of the passage is that one who exists with a nature that should be served, took on the nature of one who serves because of love and humility and unity. We are to have that attitude in ourselves; i.e. never think more highly of ourselves that we can't serve others.
To do this, He came fashioned as a man which talks about structure. He came as a man with a servant's heart, in humility.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,13:02) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,17:57) I see God in some contexts as meaning the highest authority which could be more than one person existing in unity with another, acting in unity with another (what one does, the other cooperates), and both having authority together over all creation.
That's also how the pagans see their gods, Kathi. Hmmmmm………
Mike,
There is no perfect unity in pagan gods. They compete with each other, are immoral, selfish, have unequal status. The pagan gods are far from perfect.So, if pagans see their gods as being perfectly good and in perfect harmony then they are not seeing things correctly.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:18) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 13 2012,02:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) Hi Charles,
I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation.Hey Charles and jammin……………………….
When are you guys going to answer Kathi's question with a NUMERICAL answer?
HOW MANY?
there is ONE GOD THE FATHERthere is one GOD THE ONLY SON!
that is the answer mike. we told you about this a long long time ago
Well jammin,One plus one equals TWO, right? So are you saying we have TWO Almighty Gods? YES or NO?
TWO persons
but one in nature, GOD.just like you and your father. you are TWO in numbers but one in nature, HUMAN.
that is what the bible says
not TWO almighty GODS because almighty is the nature of GOD>
if you are God, you are almighty mike.
if you are HUMAN, you are not almighty bec that is your nature. you and your father are not almighty by nature.let me post the bible
John 1:1New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Philippians 2:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 15 2012,06:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,12:56) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,16:31) Jesus already stated that Jehovah is his God and Father as well as being his disciples, John 20:17, so why would that teaching be contradicted by Philippians 2:6?
Kathi?Do you think Paul was saying that Jesus was existing in the form of some other God than his own God? If so, which God would that be?
Or do you contend that Paul taught Jesus was existing in the form of the SPECIES known to him as “God”?
Mike,
I think Paul is not using the word 'God' in vs. 6 as a name but as a description of a nature. In vs. 9 he uses it as a name of a particular person, God the Father and there is the article 'the/ho' with God/theos.Philippians 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
In the passage we see an emphasis on having humility, seeing others as better than ourselves, i.e. we are not above others that we can't serve others.
You asked if Paul was speaking of a species known as 'God' but I don't think so because there is no species known as 'servant' which is used in a parallel sort of way.
See the comparison between what Jesus is and what He added to Himself:
“being in very nature God,” vs. “taking the very nature of a servant.”The gist of the passage is that one who exists with a nature that should be served, took on the nature of one who serves because of love and humility and unity. We are to have that attitude in ourselves; i.e. never think more highly of ourselves that we can't serve others.
To do this, He came fashioned as a man which talks about structure. He came as a man with a servant's heart, in humility.
nice post sis
we know mike cant read his illusion FORM OF HIS GOD in phil 2.6
it only proves that this guy is a false teacher
keep it up sis
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