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Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,10:32) For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest.
What you are calling “worship” in quotation marks is what I call “doing obeisance”. I do not call “doing obeisance” by the word “worship”, for I feel the word “worship” describes how we serve and revere ONLY Jehovah God Almighty.Quote (jammin @ Oct. 13 2012,02:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) Hi Charles,
I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation.Hey Charles and jammin……………………….
When are you guys going to answer Kathi's question with a NUMERICAL answer?
HOW MANY?
there is ONE GOD THE FATHERthere is one GOD THE ONLY SON!
that is the answer mike. we told you about this a long long time ago
Well jammin,One plus one equals TWO, right? So are you saying we have TWO Almighty Gods? YES or NO?
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote but you can't grasp Jesus performing miracles in the name of his God, Mike,
Obvious!!
You and me grasp differently.
You simply grasp it only literally!!
I from the other hand grasp it both literally, and spiritually.
You look at Jesus only as a human being,
I look at Jesus as fully Human and as fully God.
What surprises me is that God of the OT confirmed that there was only one way to be in the truth in this evil world, and that was when
HE WOULD BECOME MAN HIMSELF IN JESUS CHRIST
Jeremiah 32:41 And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good: and I will plant them in this land in truth, WITH MY WHOLE HEART, AND WITH ALL MY SOUL!!
Don’t tell me that the Father has a SOUL, except that of JESUS', since the soul is created purposely to act as a mediator between God and His evil creatures in order to abide within it WITHOUT HARMING THEM.
Otherwise He would remain unknown, mystery, and not in the truth, since Jesus himself confirmed it in
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they
MIGHT KNOW THEE
SO HE WAS NOT KNOWN UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME JESUS STATED SO!!
THE OT. WAS OF NO USE!!
SO THEY ONLY MIGHT (still sceptic) KNOW HIM THROUGH JESUS,
SINCE GOD WAS JESUS' SPIRIT.
SINCE GOD WAS JESUS' SOUL through the Holy Spirit.
SINCE GOD WAS JESUS' FLESH BODY through His Son’s Spirit
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jeremiah 32:27 Behold I am the Lord the GOD OF ALL FLESH: shall any thing be hard for me?
32:41 And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good: and I will plant them in this land in truth, WITH MY WHOLE HEART, AND WITH ALL MY SOUL!!
Did you ever reflected on the above scriptures Mike???
Isn’t clear that God the Father is referring to His SON, as GOD/MAN, GOD IN FLESH???
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
BOTH GOD, SPIRITWISE AND JESUS CHRIST, FLESHWISE!!!TWO OPPOSING ELEMENTS, BUT UNITED AS ONE IN JESUS CHRIST!!!
THE ONLY SOLUTION FOR HUMANS TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE FATHER!!!
THE ONLY WAY TO UNITE WITH THE FATHER EVEN WHILE ON EARTH, WHOEVER IS READY TO COMPLETELY ABANDON TOTALLY THE WORLD AND DIE EVERY DAY FOR JESUS CHRIST TO LIVE IN HIM!!!
Peace and love in Jesus
CharlesQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,05:28) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 12 2012,00:40) ONLY GOD IN JESUS HAD THE POWER TO REMOVE DEVILS FROM HUMAN BEINGS’SOULS!!!
Charles,
I agree with the above statement 100%! But notice that you've spoken scriptural truth here……………… God was IN Jesus doing the works. Jesus was not in himself, but God (someone OTHER THAN Jesus) was in him doing the good works.Do you understand that it makes no sense to say “God was in God”? Do you understand that for God to be in someone, that someone has to be someone OTHER THAN God?
How is it that you can speak such scriptural truth, but then turn around and claim that Jesus WAS the very God who was IN him?
Hi Mike,Was it not also God that raised Jesus from the dead,
works of bodily resurrection which Thomas could see?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 12 2012,12:49) Kerwin, I see the word 'his' as in man is created in his and actually their image but I don't see where man is created in 'his' form or nature. I don't see that Jesus was in the form of His God either in Philippians 2. He was in the form of God, not 'His' God.
Kathi,Can you tell us the difference between “form” and “image”?
And if Jesus wasn't existing in the form of HIS God in Phil 2, then WHICH God was he existing in the form of?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2012,15:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,00:53) Kerwin, What Greek manuscript says 'His God' in Philippians 2:6?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Kathi,The Greek translation that modern translations use it states “'…existing in form of God…” Nature is a choice by those translators that follow a particular religious tenet. If you don't follow that tenet then you will disagree with that choice of translation.
Adam was created in the image of God does not have “his God” either. After Adam was created he existed in the form of God as well.
Good post, Kerwin.Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) You look at Jesus only as a human being, I look at Jesus as fully Human and as fully God.
I look at Jesus as God's first creation, who existed in the form of his God as a spirit being before emptying himself and being made into a human being.He was always something more than “just human”, and he has never been “fully God”. Even now, after he has been exalted to the highest position BY HIS GOD, he is still not God, but the Servant who sits at God's right hand.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
BOTH GOD, SPIRITWISE AND JESUS CHRIST, FLESHWISE!!!
There's one our biggest differences, Charles. I read the words “God AND Jesus Christ” like a sane person, and recognize that TWO are being discussed, only ONE of whom is “God”.You apparently read it differently, and for some reason conclude that the words “God AND Jesus Christ” mean “God AND God” or something.
My understanding of those words is logical, and will work anytime the words “blank AND blank” are used. Your understanding is illogical, which is why you claim this nonsense ONLY in the case of God and Jesus.
For example, if you read “Solomon AND David”, you would NEVER come to the asinine conclusion that they were both the same being. I could use a trillion different examples for you, and you would come to the sane and sensible conclusion each and every time…………… EXCEPT in the case of God and his servant Jesus Christ.
Isn't that a little biased, Charles? Doesn't it show that you are capable of understanding logical concepts, but since the logical conclusion doesn't support your doctrine, you are willing to toss logic aside in the case of God and His holy Servant Jesus Christ?
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) Hi Mike, Was it not also God that raised Jesus from the dead……………
Yes Ed,The God of Jesus raised His servant Jesus from the dead. Jesus was the first of the joint-heirs to inherit everlasting life from his God. Many more are to follow.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:10) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,15:18) No, this transaltion does not say “this spirit enable[d] this girl to foretell the future ACCURATELY!
Use your God-given common sense here, Frank. If her owners got very rich from her predictions, chances are that they were ACCURATE predictions. Not too many people will pay to have their fortunes told by someone who is always wrong, right? Her owners became rich because her predictions were ACCURATE.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 11 2012,15:18) Who was this spirit? It actually does not identify who this spirit was in this translation, now does it?
Once again, your God-given human logic and common sense comes into play here, Frank. Paul expelled this spirit from the girl, right? What is another name used for the spirits that Jesus and the disciples expelled from the Jews? Weren't they often called “demons” and “devils”? Read Luke 10:17 to find out which spirits submitted to the disciples of Jesus, Frank. Are they not called “devils” and “demons” in that verse? And aren't “devils” and “demons” called gods in the scripture, just as Kerwin has pointed out to you?So I ask again: Who do you THINK this spirit was? Do you THINK it was a man-made idol who couldn't speak or move? Or do you THINK it was most likely one of Satan's angels……… one who had the POWER to foretell the future?
YOUR “God” has never given me anything of any worth! In fact, you “worship Gods” that are nothing but powerless and worthless idols!
WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:02) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,10:32) For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest.
What you are calling “worship” in quotation marks is what I call “doing obeisance”. I do not call “doing obeisance” by the word “worship”, for I feel the word “worship” describes how we serve and revere ONLY Jehovah God Almighty.That is why I always place the word “worship” within quotation marks. There are a number of different Hebrew and Greek words that have been translated into our English language as “worship”. I previously gave Pie the definition of the word “worship” in our English language which has diverse meanings. I had also previously made it known to him that it all depends on how the English word “worship” is used in the context of what it being said that determines its meaning within the context. I really do not care about how you feel or who you personally refer the word “worship” to. In fact, I do not not care to hear anything you have to say because of your constant refusal to accept reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness in accordance with Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word and your failure to use common sense.
WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,09:03) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 12 2012,22:32) kerwin, I may be misunderstanding you since you used too many negatives (doubt, not, not) in one sentence, but it seemed to me that you believe I do realize the difference between the “worship” of Yahweh and the “worship” of others. I do though. For example, I believe that Yahshua can be “worshiped, but not as his and our Father Yahweh. Yahshua is “worshiped as the anointed king and high priest. Do you agee with this and do you not agree with most of what I have made known on my web page concerning the words that are translated as “worship”?:
Word Studies On Worship
(shachah, latreuo, and proskuneo)WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Frank,You are correct that I used more negatives than was wise.
You are also correct that I believe you know the difference between worshiping a king and worshiping Yawheh.Mike is correct that some are so used to the ways of our culture that they think the word “worship” can only be used in regards to Yawheh. I quoted Scripture to demonstrate it is not so.
kerwin,It seem to me that you might possibly be reading Mike wrong, since it is quite obvious from Mike's previous response to me that he “FEEL
” differently about the English word “worship”. See his previous response to me and my previous response in return for proof of this. If he conveyed to you how you believe he believes concerning the English word “worship”, then he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Of course, this is a common character of those who out to deceive others from knowing the truth of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:37) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) You look at Jesus only as a human being, I look at Jesus as fully Human and as fully God.
I look at Jesus as God's first creation, who existed in the form of his God as a spirit being before emptying himself and being made into a human being.He was always something more than “just human”, and he has never been “fully God”. Even now, after he has been exalted to the highest position BY HIS GOD, he is still not God, but the Servant who sits at God's right hand.
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 13 2012,13:20) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
BOTH GOD, SPIRITWISE AND JESUS CHRIST, FLESHWISE!!!
There's one our biggest differences, Charles. I read the words “God AND Jesus Christ” like a sane person, and recognize that TWO are being discussed, only ONE of whom is “God”.You apparently read it differently, and for some reason conclude that the words “God AND Jesus Christ” mean “God AND God” or something.
My understanding of those words is logical, and will work anytime the words “blank AND blank” are used. Your understanding is illogical, which is why you claim this nonsense ONLY in the case of God and Jesus.
For example, if you read “Solomon AND David”, you would NEVER come to the asinine conclusion that they were both the same being. I could use a trillion different examples for you, and you would come to the sane and sensible conclusion each and every time…………… EXCEPT in the case of God and his servant Jesus Christ.
Isn't that a little biased, Charles? Doesn't it show that you are capable of understanding logical concepts, but since the logical conclusion doesn't support your doctrine, you are willing to toss logic aside in the case of God and His holy Servant Jesus Christ?
To ALL,Yahshua is not the first of Yahweh's creation as Mike deceptively teaches! Yahshua is the first of ALL creation and Father Yahweh is still in the creation process.
See the following link for Scriptural proof of this:
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:15WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote How is it that you can speak such scriptural truth, but then turn around and claim that Jesus WAS the very God who was IN him? Mike,
I explained it in my posts many times.
It is the different way we grasp scriptures!
My last post is more clear.
In Jeremiah God is refering to Jesus as HIMSELF.
I am God of all FLESH,but actually JESUS is God of all flesh, and He confirmed it in John 17:2 when He said that the Father gave him all power over all flesh, in order to give them eternal life.
Jesus GAVE eternal life to all humans,not the Father, He died for humans not the Father,but in the same time God the Father is our saviour,but through Jesus Christ, so it is the SAME GOD, THE SAME SPIRIT, ONE SPIRIT OF GOD.
John 1:5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life
IS IN HIS SON
This is only possible since the spirit of the Son was used to supply souls.
THE FIRST ONE IN ADAM.
You simply cannot grasp it because you simply treat God as a mere human being,but God could be in His own substance while in the same time He would be in another spirit.
So THE FATHER REMAINED IN HEAVEN, AND IN THE SAME TIME HE WAS IN JESUS.AND VICE VERSA.
JESUS MANY TIMES MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE IS IN HEAVEN WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH.
HE WAS IN THE FATHER WHILE THE FATHER WAS IN HEAVEN, AND THE FATHER WAS IN HIM WHILE HE WAS ON NEARTH.
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME!!
BUT ALWAYS THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
ONE SPIRIT
ONE TRIUNE GOD
THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
2Corinthians 13:14 The grace of our
LORD JESUS CHRIST, ( THE SON)
and the charity of
GOD, ( THE FATHER)
and the communication of the
HOLY GHOST ( HOLY SPIRIT)
be with you all. Amen
John 1:5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the Word, (THE SON)and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I look at Jesus as God's first creation Mike,
Jesus was never created,
HOW ON EARTH JESUS CREATES HIMSELF???
SINCE ALL WAS CREATED BY HIM, WHATEVER IS CREATED
TELL ME MIKE:
CAN JESUS CREATE HIMSELF
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,05:12) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) Hi Charles,
I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation.
Mike,Her question was not specific enough and therefore left too much open to interpretation. I answered like I did in order to be more specific.
If she meant to ask “how many “theos” there are that are worthy to be worshiped”, then the answer is one.
If she meant to ask “how many “theos” there are that cannot be tempted by evil”, then the answer is also one.
Kerwin,I'm not even the one who asked the question, but I can easily see how you're trying to avoid it. Her question is right here in the quote box above, and it seems pretty specific to me.
Mike,You are correct that I missed the tail end of it.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,00:53) Kerwin,
you said:Quote Even on the others I prefer to glean what I can from the underlying Ancient Greek and Hebrew languages in hopes understanding God's words. Even the Ancient Greek and Hebrew Scripture we have are probably not 100% reliable as the manuscripts differ on some points, but they are better than the English ones translated from them. What Greek manuscript says 'His God' in Philippians 2:6?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Kathi,My point is that there is but one God and he is Jehovah. You can find plenty of places in Scripture where he is not referred to as “his God” or “your God” because it is clear the God being spoken of is Jehovah.
Jesus already stated that Jehovah is his God and Father as well as being his disciples, John 20:17, so why would that teaching be contradicted by Philippians 2:6?
Form, like nature, is a vague word that can describe many things depending on the context of how it is used.
You believe nature means what makes Jehovah the One true God while I believe it means Jesus existed in the mindset of Jehovah.
I prefer using form or shape instead as it is a synonym of image, likeness, and other like words used in Scripture. Nature seem to obscure that connection even though I believe it is technically correct.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,05:19) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 11 2012,17:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 12 2012,00:41) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 10 2012,03:25) Mike, [Godhead] is an accurate translation at the time the KJV was written…………
Please show your expert support that agrees “Godhead” is an accurate translation of these Greek words.
Mike,Here is one of the two definitions Merriam-Websters give………..
As far as I know, Mirriam Webster never translated the Greek language into English, Kerwin.I am asking for the support of a GREEK EXPERT SCHOLAR who agrees with you that the Greek words “theios”, “theiotes”, or “theotes” all mean “Godhead”. (These are the three Greek words that the KJV translates as “Godhead”.)
It seems that no scholar today believes those words mean “Godhead”, Kerwin. That is why I'm asking where your information that THEY DO mean “Godhead” comes from.
Get it now? You're claiming that “Godhead” IS an accurate translation of these words. I'm asking: Says who?
Mike,I am saying that when properly used the meaning of Godhead is the same as the words “theios”, “theiotes”, or “theotes”.
The incorrect Trinitarian meaning is a late-comer and possibly came about from those that believe the divine nature is a Trinity.
The second definition has clearly come about from a later interpretation as the hold to the first definition.
Many Scholars seem to believe that the second definition clouds the actual meaning of Scripture and so prefer to use words that do not do so.
I believe it best to point out that Godhead, as used in Scripture, means “divine” and “divine nature” as there are those that use translations that employ it.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 12 2012,16:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,00:53) Kerwin,
you said:Quote Even on the others I prefer to glean what I can from the underlying Ancient Greek and Hebrew languages in hopes understanding God's words. Even the Ancient Greek and Hebrew Scripture we have are probably not 100% reliable as the manuscripts differ on some points, but they are better than the English ones translated from them. What Greek manuscript says 'His God' in Philippians 2:6?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Kathi,The Greek translation that modern translations use it states “'…existing in form of God…” Nature is a choice by those translators that follow a particular religious tenet. If you don't follow that tenet then you will disagree with that choice of translation.
Adam was created in the image of God does not have “his God” either. After Adam was created he existed in the form of God as well.
Kerwin,
Where does scripture say that Adam existed in the form of God?? Adam as well as all men exist in the image of God but not in the form of God according to what I am aware of.Do you have a scripture that says Adam existed in the form of God?
I think that 'nature' gives a clearer impression as to what 'form' means. Either word can be used here but the form of something/someone reflects the nature of that something/someone.
Consider these three verses with the word 'morphē' in it:
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Phil 2:7
but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.Mark 16:12
Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.
Phil 2:6 Jesus is in the form/nature of God.
Phil 2:7 Jesus takes on the form/nature of a servant which in Phil 2:8 says is fashioned as a man.
Mark 16:12 Jesus APPEARS in a form that was different than His true form.
Mark 16:12 has to do with what nature He appears to be…a normal everyday man
Phil 2:6 has to do with the nature that He is essentially…a God.
Phil 2:7 has to do with the nature He adds to Himself…a humble servant.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 14 2012,02:34)
kerwin,It seem to me that you might possibly be reading Mike wrong, since it is quite obvious from Mike's previous response to me that he “FEEL
” differently about the English word “worship”. See his previous response to me and my previous response in return for proof of this. If he conveyed to you how you believe he believes concerning the English word “worship”, then he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Of course, this is a common character of those who out to deceive others from knowing the truth of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word!WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Frank,I chose to look at Mike's words with rose colored glasses but he seems to believe worship is only used with Jehovah. This seeming of his appears rather unlikely given the passage I gave and others; and that he seems to get that David is not worshiped as Yawheh is, except to the giving of homage.
Even the Trinitarians would agree though contradictory they insist that worship when applied to Jesus means he is Yawheh because “only Yawheh is worshiped”.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2012,17:31) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2012,00:53) Kerwin,
you said:Quote Even on the others I prefer to glean what I can from the underlying Ancient Greek and Hebrew languages in hopes understanding God's words. Even the Ancient Greek and Hebrew Scripture we have are probably not 100% reliable as the manuscripts differ on some points, but they are better than the English ones translated from them. What Greek manuscript says 'His God' in Philippians 2:6?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Kathi,My point is that there is but one God and he is Jehovah. You can find plenty of places in Scripture where he is not referred to as “his God” or “your God” because it is clear the God being spoken of is Jehovah.
Jesus already stated that Jehovah is his God and Father as well as being his disciples, John 20:17, so why would that teaching be contradicted by Philippians 2:6?
Form, like nature, is a vague word that can describe many things depending on the context of how it is used.
You believe nature means what makes Jehovah the One true God while I believe it means Jesus existed in the mindset of Jehovah.
I prefer using form or shape instead as it is a synonym of image, likeness, and other like words used in Scripture. Nature seem to obscure that connection even though I believe it is technically correct.
Kerwin,
You will find 'form/nature' 'shape/appearance' and 'likeness' in these three verses and they are not the same meaning:Phil 2:6Who, being in very nature (from morphe') God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature (from morphe') of a servant,
being made in human likeness (from homoióma).
8And being found in appearance (from schema) as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
This translation uses 'nature,' 'likeness,' and 'found in appearance' to translate these three Greek words:
morphe' – nature/form
homoióma – that which is made like (likeness)
schéma: figure, shapeSo morphe' cannot mean the same as likeness or shape since other words are used in the same passage for those two thoughts.
The word 'God' in Phil 2:6 is used as how 'servant' is used in Phil 2:7. It is not used as a particular servant but the nature of a servant, likewise the word 'God' here is used not as a particular God but as the nature of a God.
I think the gist of the passage is to contrast one who exists in the nature/form of God which would be one who is served yet takes on the nature/form of one who serves while remaining the one who should be served.
I believe that Heb 1:3 gives a more sure proof of Jesus being identically like the Father in nature yet a different person.
Heb 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,Being the exact representation of God's nature means that there are two who's nature is exactly alike.
For example, if you go to the clothing store and see some shirts on a rack…all of the same kind, and then you pick up two of them and they are both the same size, you can say that one of the two is the exact representation of the other but it is a different shirt and not the same shirt. You would not like one more than the other, in fact you would like one just as much as the other and you could buy either one and be just as satisfied.
I see your doctrine in this example, as you treating one shirt as a 100% cotton shirt and the other shirt as a 100% polyester shirt even though they are both made of the same material.
I know this is just an imperfect example but sometimes word pictures (parables) are helpful.
Quote You believe nature means what makes Jehovah the One true God while I believe it means Jesus existed in the mindset of Jehovah. Your view would require passive verbs and not active verbs in John 1:1 and other places. There was something that existed in the mindset of Jehovah, the Father, but it wasn't His Son who was actively with Him before creation, it was the role that His Son would take as the Messiah in the future as an incarnation-who His Son was as God by nature adding on the nature of man.
God bless!
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