JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,11:01)

Pierre,
If your son had the exact representation of your nature, would he have a strength of his own or would he be like a puppet and be completely dependent on you to move him? Are you a puppet that your father moves in order to do something?

Kathi

nature means only the category in witch you are created ,like the nature of the bear,the horse are not the same ,like the fish is not the same nature of the whale,and all men have the same nature this mean the same category but that does not mean that they are all the same strength,the same hight,the same color ,the same ability ,all have voices like the tree tenors ,and that all will be honest ,truthfull,God fearing individuals,

so nature only means the category of your species .

so Christ his of Gods nature and is the only one to be in that nature because he his the only one to be created by God directly,all other creation was created through him

October 6, 2012 at 6:16 pm#314886

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 05 2012,20:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,10:06)

mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:

since he WAS existing in the form of his God,

where can you read that paul said he was existing in the form of HIS God??

what did paul said in phil 2.6
1. form of HIS God
or
2. form of God?

those two sentences are not the same mike.

do not put your own words in the bible

i will give you a chance mike. although it is very obvious that you are adding words in phil 2.6

where can you read that paul said in phil 2.6 that Christ was existing in the form of HIS God

Surely you must be kidding, right?

jammin, are you unaware that our God is also the God of Jesus? Do you need me to point you to those scriptures?

Also, why not address the actual point I made about Jesus not being “the unchanged one”?

October 6, 2012 at 6:23 pm#314887

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 05 2012,20:21)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 05 2012,21:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,10:06)

jammin, HOW MANY Almighty Gods exist?

there is one GOD THE FATHER who is almighty
there is ONE GOD THE ONLY SON WHO IS ALMIGHTY

jammin,
We think alike young man……..

I will have to agree with Kathi's assessment here, because it surely does seem like you're saying you believe in TWO, individual Almighty Gods – like she does.

But, just to be clear on this point, could you answer my bolded question above with a NUMBER?

October 6, 2012 at 7:12 pm#314891

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,12:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,11:01)

Kathi

so nature only means the category of your species .

so Christ his of Gods nature and is the only one to be in that nature because he his the only one to be created by God directly,all other creation was created through him

Pierre,

Quote

nature means only the category in witch you are created

So if the Father has an uncreated nature and the Son has the exact nature, then you have two that exist in the 'category' of their nature which is uncreated.

Can you admit that the Father and the Son are the same species and the only ones in that species?

October 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm#314892

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2012,10:26)

Pierre,
Your problem is then with scripture, not me. I gave you the scripture and bolded it for you.

1 Cor 1
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Surely you can understand that this means Christ REPRESENTS the power and wisdom of God, right? I'm sure you'd be able to understand it just fine if it was said about Moses, or David, etc. But when things like this are said about Jesus, all of a sudden they turn into another “proof text” for you, and you are content to ignore the obvious meaning – even though you are quite aware of it.

Look what Paul says just before the part you quoted for Pierre:
1 Cor 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

See? Here Paul says “the message of the cross is the power of God”. Will you also take that one literally? Or will you accurately understand it as a metaphor?

October 6, 2012 at 7:27 pm#314895

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,13:16)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 05 2012,20:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,10:06)

mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:

since he WAS existing in the form of his God,

where can you read that paul said he was existing in the form of HIS God??

what did paul said in phil 2.6
1. form of HIS God
or
2. form of God?

those two sentences are not the same mike.

do not put your own words in the bible

i will give you a chance mike. although it is very obvious that you are adding words in phil 2.6

where can you read that paul said in phil 2.6 that Christ was existing in the form of HIS God

Surely you must be kidding, right?

jammin, are you unaware that our God is also the God of Jesus? Do you need me to point you to those scriptures?

Also, why not address the actual point I made about Jesus not being “the unchanged one”?

8But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,

and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions

by anointing you with the oil of joy.”f

10He also says,

“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,

and the heavens are the work of your hands.

11They will perish, but you remain;

they will all wear out like a garment.

12You will roll them up like a robe;

like a garment they will be changed.

But you remain the same,

and your years will never end.”

October 6, 2012 at 7:35 pm#314898

Blocked

The words in verses 10-12 are about the Father, not the Son. (The Greek doesn't say, “He also says………” at the beginning of verse 10. It just says “And……..”)

There is a different scripture that actually does say Christ will not change anymore, but I can't put my finger on it right now. Nor does it help jammin's point, because that scripture doesn't say Jesus NEVER HAS changed.

Just like Paul teaches that Jesus is NOW immortal, because death NO LONGER has mastery over him. (See how that teaching DOESN'T say that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN immortal? In fact, it teaches quite the opposite.)

October 6, 2012 at 10:03 pm#314909

Participant

mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Mike,

Jesus confirmed that the flesh counts for nothing and the spirit gives life,and that's ALWAYS. SO:

Jesus as MAN yes. SINCE HE IS FLESH.( HE LOWERED HIMSELF TO BECOME LIKE HIS BRETHREN)

But as a spirit HE IS GOD.

JESUS IS MAN/GOD: GOD IN FLESH.

THE FATHER IS JESUS' SPIRIT. THE ONE ETERNAL

THE SON IS JESUS' FLESH BODY AS MAN THE ONE WHO DIED

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS JESUS' SOUL THROUGH NATURE IN ORDER TO BECOME MAN LIKE ALL HIS BRETHREN.

SO WHEN YOU MENTION JESUS YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT YOU ARE MENTIONING:

GOD THE FATHER AS MAN THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS OF OUR CREATION THROUGH JESUS' SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE TRIUNE GOD.

WITH EVERY RESPECT,YOU CANNOT GET THIS INTO YOUR MIND BECAUSE YOU ARE COMPLETELY BLIND REGARDING THE GODHEAD.

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

October 6, 2012 at 10:30 pm#314914

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 07 2012,16:03)

mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Mike,

Jesus confirmed that the flesh counts for nothing and the spirit gives life,and that's ALWAYS. SO:

Jesus as MAN yes. SINCE HE IS FLESH.( HE LOWERED HIMSELF TO BECOME LIKE HIS BRETHREN)

But as a spirit HE IS GOD.

JESUS IS MAN/GOD: GOD IN FLESH.

THE FATHER IS JESUS' SPIRIT. THE ONE ETERNAL

THE SON IS JESUS' FLESH BODY AS MAN THE ONE WHO DIED

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS JESUS' SOUL THROUGH NATURE IN ORDER TO BECOME MAN LIKE ALL HIS BRETHREN.

SO WHEN YOU MENTION JESUS YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT YOU ARE MENTIONING:

GOD THE FATHER AS MAN THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS OF OUR CREATION THROUGH JESUS' SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE TRIUNE GOD.

WITH EVERY RESPECT,YOU CANNOT GET THIS INTO YOUR MIND BECAUSE YOU ARE COMPLETELY BLIND REGARDING THE GODHEAD.

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

charles

:laugh: please stop I am rolling on the ground,

a son as never be a father or a son to himself, in the flesh or the spirit :laugh:

October 7, 2012 at 1:32 am#314953

Frank4YAHWEH

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 05 2012,07:55)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Oct. 04 2012,12:39)

m'64,

……..it is my understanding that you recognize YOUR “Jesus” as “a god”, right? And would not YOUR “Jesus” be another “god” other than YOUR “Jehovah God”?

Frank,

I worship and serve as God ONLY Jehovah – the God of gods who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them, including His Son Jesus Christ.

You should now be very clear on this matter, and I should therefore never have to read another post from you where you talk about me worshipping “gods”.

YOUKNOWWHATYOUDO,

If one says “I worship and serve as GOD ONLY Jehovah …” that would be ONE “god” and then “… including His Son Jesus Christ.” whom I have also heard you MANY times also refer to as “GOD”, that then would clearly be two “GODS” by my calculation and not not that you “… worship and serve as God ONLY Jehovah” as you have so erroneously calculated. I can only conclude that now it is very clear on this matter that I was in fact correct and can say from here on out that you are worshipping “GODS” PLURAL and not “GOD” SINGULAR. :laugh:

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

October 7, 2012 at 2:43 am#314964

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,13:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,12:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,11:01)

Kathi

so nature only means the category of your species .

so Christ his of Gods nature and is the only one to be in that nature because he his the only one to be created by God directly,all other creation was created through him

Pierre,

Quote

nature means only the category in witch you are created

So if the Father has an uncreated nature and the Son has the exact nature, then you have two that exist in the 'category' of their nature which is uncreated.

Can you admit that the Father and the Son are the same species and the only ones in that species?

Kathi

if God as an uncreated NATURE it got nothing to do in what HE WANTED TO CREATE ,WAKEUP SISS ,GOD AS EXPLAINED WHO THE SON HIS BUT NOT ALL CAN SEE IT IN SCRIPTURES ,

REMEMBER GOD THE FATHER DID NOT MAKE A MIRROR COPY OF HIM AND CALL HIM SON,

RESEMBLANCE ,A LIKE NATURE,AN IMAGE ,THOSE ARE CLEAR THAT IT IS NOT A REPLICA OF GOD HIMSELF .

October 7, 2012 at 3:59 am#314985

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,03:57)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,10:26)

Pierre,
Your problem is then with scripture, not me. I gave you the scripture and bolded it for you.

Kathi

Quote

Your problem is then with scripture, not me

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SCRIPTURES KATHI,BUT WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THEM,SO IT IS WITH YOU THAT THE PROBLEM LAYS,

quoting scriptures and then trowing in a little comment of yours ,that give it a total different destination ,

you do have a problem T reading your bible.

forget the man made doctrine and believe what the bible says.

October 7, 2012 at 4:01 am#314988

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2012,05:16)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 05 2012,20:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2012,10:06)

mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:

since he WAS existing in the form of his God,

where can you read that paul said he was existing in the form of HIS God??

what did paul said in phil 2.6
1. form of HIS God
or
2. form of God?

those two sentences are not the same mike.

do not put your own words in the bible

i will give you a chance mike. although it is very obvious that you are adding words in phil 2.6

where can you read that paul said in phil 2.6 that Christ was existing in the form of HIS God

Surely you must be kidding, right?

jammin, are you unaware that our God is also the God of Jesus? Do you need me to point you to those scriptures?

Also, why not address the actual point I made about Jesus not being “the unchanged one”?

do not explain mike.

read your words mike.

you said Christ was existing in the form of HIS God

what did paul said in phil 2.6??

1. form of GOD
or
2. form of HIS God

pick your answer mike

October 7, 2012 at 4:02 am#314990

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,03:24)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 07 2012,08:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,15:50)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2012,21:30)

Pierre,

Quote

Many gods and many men are almighty in their own range,

Maybe in someone's eyes but Jesus and the Father have authority over them. So much for being almighty in someone's eyes if you aren't almighty in the eyes of the Father and Son.

All powers are given by God almighty not his son,even the son power has been given to him by the father,

this is the reason T

Philippians 2:6-7

New International Version (NIV)

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

jamin

Phil 2:6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Phil 2:7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
Phil 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Phil 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
Phil 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

NOW WITH THOSE SCRIPTURES WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU TRY TO MAKE ME UNDERSTAND ?

read verse 6-7 over and over again.

October 7, 2012 at 5:05 am#315028

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 07 2012,22:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 07 2012,03:24)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 07 2012,08:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2012,15:50)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2012,21:30)

Pierre,

Quote

Many gods and many men are almighty in their own range,

Maybe in someone's eyes but Jesus and the Father have authority over them. So much for being almighty in someone's eyes if you aren't almighty in the eyes of the Father and Son.

All powers are given by God almighty not his son,even the son power has been given to him by the father,

this is the reason T

Philippians 2:6-7

New International Version (NIV)

jamin

NOW WITH THOSE SCRIPTURES WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU TRY TO MAKE ME UNDERSTAND ?

read verse 6-7 over and over again.

Jamin

You can not even point out your believe in scriptures,

You too have a vocabulary problem me because English is not my first language ,but you it is more like you do not know many words in your own language ,that you repeat yourself so often with the same words,

Read your quotes always the same answers to all ,well a men can only give and share what he received from above ,right Yes ,even if it is not much.

October 7, 2012 at 5:45 am#315046

Participant

terraricca,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

because it is true that Christ is acting on his father behalf but for that reason it does not make him his own father ,

Terraricca,

the president and vice president are two, completely separated sinful mortal creatures, not devines.

The logical reasoning does not work with GOD.

GOD IS NOT LOGIC.

LOGIC IS FOR US TO GET US AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO GOD.

JESUS A HUMAN LIKE US WAS SUPPOSE TO BE BORN SINFULL. BUT HE WAS BORN SINLESS.

JESUS A HUMAN LIKE US WAS SUPPOSE TO HAVE A CARNAL FATHER.

BUT HE NEVER HAD ONE AND STILL BECAME :

SON OF MAN AND EVENTUALLY MAN HIMSELF.

SO :

HE IS GOD SINCE HE IS THE SON OF GOD , AS MUCH AS HE IS MAN AS HE IS THE SON OF MAN!!!

SINFULL ARE ALL DESTINED TO DIE, SINLESS NEVER DIES, EVEN ADAM IF HE DIDN'T SIN,THEREFORE EVEN US.

JESUS ALTHOUGH WAS BORN SINLESS DIED ON THE CROSS.

ALSO BECAME THE MOST SINFULL HUMAN BEING AS SOON AS HIS FATHER LEFT HIM,WITH THE INSERTION OF SATAN'S SPIRIT IN HIS SOUL :

TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN IN ORDER TO RECONCILE ALL ONTO HIMSELF AND DESTROY SATAN AND his attributes.

SO LOGIC DOES NOT WORK WITH GOD/MAN JESUS.

THERE'S NO LOGICAL REASONING WITH GOD'S ATTRIBUTES.

NOW ENJOY GOD'S ATTRIBUTES WHILE READING:

Judges 7:And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee

ARE TOO MANY

for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me. 3Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand.

4And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet

TOO MANY;

bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go. 5So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. 6And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water. 7And the LORD said unto Gideon,

By the

THREE HUNDRED MEN

that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.

8So the people took victuals in their hand, and their trumpets: and he sent all the rest of Israel every man unto his tent, and retained those three hundred men: and the host of Midian was beneath him in the valley.

9And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Arise, get thee down unto the host; for I have delivered it into thine hand. 10But if thou fear to go down, go thou with Phurah thy servant down to the host: 11And thou shalt hear what they say; and afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to go down unto the host. Then went he down with Phurah his servant unto the outside of the armed men that were in the host. 12And the Midianites and the Amalekites and all the children of the east lay along in the valley like grasshoppers for multitude; and their camels were without number, as the sand by the sea side for multitude. 13And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along. 14And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

15And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian. 16And he divided the three hundred men into three companies, and he put a trumpet in every man's hand, with empty pitchers, and lamps within the pitchers. 17And he said unto them, Look on me, and do likewise: and, behold, when I come to the outside of the camp, it shall be that, as I do, so shall ye do. 18When I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon.

19So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands. 20And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the LORD, and of Gideon. 21And they stood every man in his place round about the camp: and all the host ran, and cried, and fled. 22And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the LORD set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host: and the host fled to Bethshittah in Zererath, and to the border of Abelmeholah, unto Tabbath. 23And the men of Israel gathered themselves together out of Naphtali, and out of Asher, and out of all Manasseh, and pursued after the Midianites.

24And Gideon sent messengers throughout all mount Ephraim, saying, Come down against the Midianites, and take before them the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. Then all the men of Ephraim gathered themselves together, and took the waters unto Bethbarah and Jordan. 25And they took two princes of the Midianites, Oreb and Zeeb; and they slew Oreb upon the rock Oreb, and Zeeb they slew at the winepress of Zeeb, and pursued Midian, and brought the heads of Oreb and Zeeb to Gideon on the other side Jordan.

Peace and love in Jesus

Christ

October 7, 2012 at 5:56 am#315054

Participant

Quote

jammin, HOW MANY Almighty Gods exist?

Mike,

ONE almighty God in TWO ENTITIES,

ONE COMPLETELY SPIRITUAL :

THE FATHER

ONE COMPLETELY IN MYSTICALL BODY

BOTH SPIRITUAL AND FLESH

THE FATHER UNIFIED WITH THE SON THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

ON THE LAST DAY

THE FATHER WOULD BE ALL IN ALL

ALL THE ENTIRE SPIRITUAL CREATURES( THE FATHER SUBSTANCE)

IN ALL CARNAL CREATURES ( THE SON SUBSTANCE)

FOR ETERNITY

TO BECOME:

THE ALMIGHTY GOD IN MYSTICAL BODY

BUT THROUGH JESUS, WITH JESUS, AND FOR JESUS' SPIRIT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

THE KINGDOM OF THE SON

GOD'S KINGDOM

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

October 7, 2012 at 6:10 am#315056

Participant

terraricca,Oct. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

All powers are given by God almighty not his son,even the son power has been given to him by the father,

Terraricca,

READ:

John 16:15

ALL THINGS

that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall

TAKE OF MINE

and shall shew it unto you.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father:

and no man knoweth

WHO THE SON IS

, but the Father; and

WHO THE FATHER IS,

but the Son, and he to whom

THE SON (NOT THE FATHER)

will reveal him.

CONCLUSION:

I KNOW:

THE SAME ALMIGHTY GOD!!!

THE FATHER

THE SON

THE HOLY SPIRIT

IN FULL GOD'S ATTRIBUTES!!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

October 7, 2012 at 11:40 am#315072