JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2012,13:24)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,17:51) limjunus, 1.  the bible said God the only son. 2.  the bible said begotten God. 3.  the bible said only begotten son of God. 4.  paul said that God is nature (phil2.6) 1.  No, the Greek text never says that. 2.  SOME Greek mss say “only begotten god” in John 1:18 – others say “only begotten son”. 3.  YES. 4.  That is not even close to what Paul said in Phil 2:6.

what are you sure mike??

let me post the greek bible
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 1:18

18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος

the greek says monogenes theos. God the only son

study hard boy LOL

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2012,13:28)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,18:11) most greek scholars agree that the john 1.1 should be translated was God and not a god. Yes jammin.

tnx for that answer. you agree now that most scholars agree that the right translation for john 1.1 is was God and not a god.

they know how to use the greek language mike. how about you??? do you have any formal studies in greek? you are just a kid mike LOL

you can talk if you have enough knowledge about the language. those people who used a god in john 1.1 lack knowledge in greek language.

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,10:53)

Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 19 2012,15:09) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,01:30) Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 18 2012,17:26) jammin,Aug. wrote: [quote=limjunus,Aug. 17 2012,21:21] jammin,Aug. wrote: mike, John 1:18 Common English Bible (CEB) 18 No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known. “God, the only Son,” means the only Son of God, who is at the Father's side, has made God known. Jammin, do not do any alteration of the Bible passages.  Better make your own Bible “kiddie boy”. you are the one who altered the scripture boy. i think you do not know how to read LOL let me post again the CEB John 1:18 Common English Bible (CEB) 18 No one has ever seen God.   God the only Son,        who is at the Father’s side,        has made God known. there is no comma after the word God boy> LOL make your own bible Jammin believe that Jesus Christ is not the only begotten Son of God,….. but instead he is now tightly holding the CEB version. “God the only son” Who is now the begotten Son of Jesus Christ, if he is not the begotten Son? Jammin, go and find another version of the Bible that could make your doctrines more worse than before. The truth of Jammin with contradicting versions. he he he Hello kiddie boy”! now you are caught in the act boy LOL it is very clear that you put a comma after the word God in john 1.18 LOL make your own bible. LOL

JAMMIN,

No comma: “GOD THE ONLY SON”

Jammin meaning: Jesus Christ is the One and only true God,.. So who is the begotten Son of Jesus Christ?

I did not change the version of NLT. I am just given my commentaries and my understanding.

I do not expecting you to answer my questions because you have no rightful knowledge about the truth of the One and only true God.

You like only to stick with your belief even though it will crushed head-on with the truth of the Bible.

You are pond of contradictions but there is no truth with you. God is not a God of confusions.

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,11:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,01:40) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 17 2012,19:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 18 2012,08:18) jammin, Many mss have “only begotten son” in 1:18, and many others have “only begotten god”.  It's hard to tell which one John really wrote, but he definitely called Jesus a god in 1:1, right?  So I have no problem with Jesus being a god, just as I have no problem with Satan being “the god of this age”.  The word in Biblical times only meant “mighty one”, and was used of Jehovah, Jesus, Satan, angels, and even human beings. And Jesus most definitely is a “mighty one”, right? But here's the thing:  If we accept “only begotten god” in 1:18, what then?  Do you suppose that God Almighty was begotten by anyone at any time?  Of course not.  So if the Most High God was never begotten, what does it mean that Jesus is the “only BEGOTTEN god”? If God's nature is “unbegotten”, and Jesus' nature is “begotten”, then you have a problem trying to get us to believe they are somehow “equal”, and even more of a problem trying to convince us that they are the same exact being. your NWT says a god in john 1.1 but the greek text says was God. not a god boy. study greek The following information is from the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes: John 1:1c Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb. jammin, as limjunis has aptly pointed out, it seems your math skills are a little lacking, so let's take this slow. Can you read in the above information that there are THREE different possible translations of John 1:1c?  Here they are: 1.  THE God 2.  a god 3.  god with a qualitative nuance This is not someone's opinion, jammin.  These are the simple FACTS of the matter when translating the Greek of John 1:1c into English. Before I move on, it would be nice to see you, Kerwin, Frank, and Ed ACKNOWLEDGE that these are simply FACTS of translation, and no bias has been added up to this point.   If any of you guys think these are NOT the simple FACTS of the matter, then simply refute the information made by these 25 scholars.   IF YOU DO NOT REFUTE THE INFO, THEN I WILL ASSUME IT IS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT REFUTE IT, AND THAT YOU ACCEPT IT AS THE FACTS OF THE MATTER. Also jammin, you didn't address my point in the quote box above.  I've made it big this time so you can't miss it.  Please address it. i think you do not know the meaning of begotten in john1.18 it means unique one John 1:18 John 1:18 New Living Translation (NLT) 18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us. mike, do you have any formal studies in greek? i suggest you study greek mike. most greek scholars agree that the john 1.1 should be translated was God and not a god. only your NWT wants a god and not was God to support their illusion LOL

Mike,

Study deeper this Bible passages. Step by step. You will find that Jammin mis-interpretated it. John 1:18 NLT.

“No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.”

(a.)”No one has ever seen God.” (Because he is invisible 1 Tim 1:17 NLT.)

(b.) “But the unique one, who is himself God, is near to Father's heart.” ( a God near the God's heart?…Crushing or a contradiction with the Oneness of the only true God)

(c.) “He has revealed God to us.” (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us; Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

Jammin, wrongfully read it by saying that Jesus Christ is revealing himself to us.

You better go back to the school Jammin, and study the rightful grammar.

He he he

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,11:00)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 19 2012,08:50) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 18 2012,20:21) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 18 2012,20:09) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 17 2012,20:13) i accept monogenes huios. i do not have a problem with that boy. but i think you have a problem boy ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 1:18 18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος the greek also says monogenes theos. God the only son study hard boy LOL Jammin, John 1:18 is speaking of the Christ Spirit that dwells in the human Jesus; and not the human Jesus. It is the Christ Spirit that makes the human Jesus the Son of God. Christ became flesh. he was given a name jesus. Jammin, It is my understanding you believe the soul of the person Christ with the nature God took on human flesh and so became a human being. The actural words of Scripture are the Word was made flesh. John 1:18 states: John 1:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Elsewhere it is written: 1 Corinthians 2:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Clearly the one spoken of in John 1:18 is the same one spoken of in 1 Corinthians 2:11 as only one has seen God and that is his Spirit; which I called the Christ Spirit.  Jesus, the human, inherited the Christ Spirit; and so became the human to whom and by whom he revealed his deep things. 1 Corinthians 2:10 King James Version (KJV) 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. the Word in john 1.1 is a title of Christ. it is his name kerwin. rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 New International Version (NIV) 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. John 1:1 Contemporary English Version (CEV) The Word of Life 1 In the beginning was the one    who is called the Word. The Word was with God    and was truly God. read well your bible.

Kerwin,

Another error of Jammin.

1 In the beginning was the one who is called the Word.
The Word was with God and was truly God.

(a.) In the beginning was the one called the Word (The One and only true God has no beginning)

(b.) The Word was with God and truly God. (Truly God with truly God, but Jammin still insisting he did not recognized two truly God)

Here is another error of Jammin:

“the Word in john 1.1 is a title of Christ. it is his name kerwin.”

13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.” (It did not say that Jesus Christ, is the One and only true God).

Do not make the truth of God, a contradictory to it's own, Jammin.

Do not also throw away the other versions of the Bible, especially the one producing the truth without contradiction.

he he he

[limjunus]

Now Jammin, caught in the act.

He said he did not believe that there is two truly God, but he is holding firmly with the verses produce by CEB version.

1 In the beginning was the one who is called the Word.
The Word was with God and was truly God.

The Word was truly God with truly God”

Very simple arithmetic Jammin, count it nicely. How many truly God do you have? he he he

[limjunus]

THE QUESTIONS THAT JAMMIN DID NOT ANSWER AND MAY BE HE SHALL NEVER ANSWER IT FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

1.) Who is the One and only true God, the begotten Son of God or the Father, who had begotten the Son?

2.) Where in the Bible that we could read that the One and only true God composed of two or three persons?

3.) Who is the one has been crucified and died in the cross, Jesus Christ, or the One and only true God

Jammin, is caught in the act, his lips closed and can not make the rightful answers. he he he

[jammin]

limjunus,

sorry but ur understanding is wrong about jn 1.18 LOL

you should make your own bible boy before talking to me so that your illusion will be supported LOL

God is nature according to paul phil 2.6
they have one nature, and that is their nature God.

do you have two nature boy?? lol

go back to school LOL

[carmel]

limjunus,Aug. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

(c.) “He has revealed God to us.” (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us; Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

Limjunus,

These are you words:

(c.) “He has revealed God to us.”

BY BEING A MAN LIKE US,THEREFORE THE TRUE VISISBLE GOD,THE INVISIBLE ONE NEVER ESTABLISHED HIMSELF,NO MATTER HOW MANY MIRACLES HE DID THROGUHOUT CREATION,TILL JESUS CAME.
EVEN TODAY THE OT GOD STILL IS A CONFUSION, THE REASON THAT HE HAD TO COME AS HUMAN BEING IN HIS SON, IN A MODE TO SAY ONLY, FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THE RELATION BETWEEN GOD AND HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT SUBSTANCE BUT VISIBLE.

(Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us;

AGAIN THE ONLY WAY FOR THE FATHER TO REVEAL HIMSELF,WAS ONLY IN BEING LIKE HIS OWN CREATURES IN ORDER TO INTEGRATED AND MAKE IT FURTHER POSIBLE TO ACCEPT HIM

Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

SO YOU ARE WRONG FOR HUMANS THERE ARE NO VISIBLE CARNAL GODS EXCEPT JESUS SINCE THROUGH HIM THEY WERE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT AND WERE RECONCILED ONTO HIMSELF TO BE ONE WITH HIM AND IN THE SAME INSTANT WITH THE FATHER.

SO ONLY THROUGH JESUS AS THE TRUE BROTHER.
THEY HAVE THE TRUE  FATHER, THE  TRUE LORD,  AND THE TRUE GOD.

PEACE AND LOVE IN THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD.

CHARLES

[Ed J]

Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 20 2012,16:23)

Kerwin, Another error of Jammin. 1 In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God. (a.) In the beginning was the one called the Word (The One and only true God has no beginning) (b.) The Word was with God and truly God. (Truly God with truly God, but Jammin still insisting he did not recognized two truly God) Here is another error of Jammin: “the Word in john 1.1 is a title of Christ. it is his name kerwin.” 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.” (It did not say that Jesus Christ, is the One and only true God). Do not make the truth of God, a contradictory to it's own, Jammin. Do not also throw away the other versions of the Bible, especially the one producing the truth without contradiction. he he he

Hi limjunus,

“The Word” is the HolySpirit. (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[carmel]

limjunus,Aug. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

(a.) In the beginning was the one called the Word (The One and only true God has no beginning)

Limjunus,

these are you words:

(The One and only true God has no beginning)

IN THE BEGEINNING

OF CREATION, (not of a god)

WAS THE WORD,

A GENUINE SPIRIT OF GOD

AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,

AS ONE SUBSTANCE,TO CREATE ALL,

AND THE WORD WAS GOD

HIMSELF WITHIN HIMSELF,

HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT TO ACT AS A MEDIATOR,AND FURNISH HIMSELF THROUGH HIMSELF WITH A UNIQUE SUPERIOR POWER PURPOSELY IN ORDER TO BECOME

ALMIGHTY GOD

WHEN HE WAS IN HIS OWN GLORY, HE WAS NOT IN THE NEED TO BE IN THAT SUPERIOR STATE, ALTHOUGH HE WAS, BUT NOT ACTIVE .

THE SON MADE THE FATHER MORE RICH,AND POWERFULL SINCE THE FATHER WAS HIDDEN, UNKNOWN.

John 16:15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS

CHARLES

[kerwin]

Jammin,

I am not going to argue over someone elses interpretation of John 1:1; and that is what the Contemporary English Version is.

John 1:18 is the issue and it states no one has seen God but the only begotten Son; who reveals him.

It is not like it is hard to understand that it is Spirit and not the human Jesus that knows the deep things of God and revealed those things first to the human Jesus; then through him to all that believe.

Do you not understand the Spirit is in the bosom of God?

The correct translation is “no one” just as it is in John 1:18.

It is the Spirit that makes someone a son of God and Jesus is the man by whom others are made sons.

As for Jesus being called by the name of the Word. When was he first called by that name according to Scripture?

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 21 2012,00:18)

Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 20 2012,16:23) Kerwin, Another error of Jammin. 1 In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God. (a.) In the beginning was the one called the Word (The One and only true God has no beginning) (b.) The Word was with God and truly God. (Truly God with truly God, but Jammin still insisting he did not recognized two truly God) Here is another error of Jammin: “the Word in john 1.1 is a title of Christ. it is his name kerwin.” 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.” (It did not say that Jesus Christ, is the One and only true God). Do not make the truth of God, a contradictory to it's own, Jammin. Do not also throw away the other versions of the Bible, especially the one producing the truth without contradiction. he he he   Hi limjunus, “The Word” is the HolySpirit.  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

No,eddy it is not ,

[kerwin]

Mike,

Mosses came before the days that God wrote his Law on the hearts of his people and placed it inward being even though he revealed the Word as he was carried along by the Spirit of Christ.

Jesus is the first as the Spirit was put on him and he is the way others have the Word placed in them.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2012,17:51)

Jammin, I am not going to argue over someone elses interpretation of John 1:1; and that is what the Contemporary English Version is.   John 1:18 is the issue and it states no one has seen God but the only begotten Son; who reveals him. It is not like it is hard to understand that it is Spirit and not the human Jesus that knows the deep things of God and revealed those things first to the human Jesus; then through him to all that believe. Do you not understand the Spirit is in the bosom of God? The correct translation is “no one” just as it is in John 1:18. It is the Spirit that makes someone a son of God and Jesus is the man by whom others are made sons. As for Jesus being called by the name of the Word.  When was he first called by that name according to Scripture?

you need to read your belief kerwin.

if you cant read that in john 1.1 then you must ignore your belief. believe wht the bible says.

also, ed…you must accept this truth bec the bible said that the Word is the name of Christ.

rev 19.13

believe it or not.

[Ed J]

Hi Jammin,

That's not what the bible says.  

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[jammin]

ed,

really???
John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

Revelation 19:13

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, and His name is called, The Word of God.

Geneva Study Bible

In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God.

(1) The Son of God is of one and the selfsame eternity or everlastingness, and of one and the selfsame essence or nature with the Father.

(a) From the beginning, as the evangelist says in 1Jo 1:1; it is as though he said that the Word did not begin to have his being when God began to make all that was made: for the Word was even then when all things that were made began to be made, and therefore he was before the beginning of all things.

(b) Had his being.

 This word the points out to us a peculiar and choice thing above all others, and puts a difference between this Word, which is the Son of God, and the laws of God, which are also called the word of God.

(d) This word with points out that there is a distinction of persons here.

(e) This word Word is the first in order in the sentence, and is the subject of the sentence, and this word God is the latter in order, and is the predicate of the sentence.

bible supports my view. commentaries also supports my view.

ed do not be a hard headed.
if you can read your illusion in john 1.1 then ill accept that.
give me any translation that says that the Word in john 1.1 is the HOLY SPIRIT.
can you give me one?yes or no?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 19 2012,10:54)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 18 2012,15:09) ……..the word translated as 'god' does not always give reference to an actual being, person or mighty one, but can also simply refer to power, strength or might. So then you agree that the word “theos” in 1:1c does NOT refer to the person of God mentioned in 1:1b as “THE theos”? Good for you, Frank. Now you only need to know that the word in 1:1c was NOT written in the adjectival form, meaning it can NOT be saying something such as “and the Word was mighty”.  (For “mighty” is an adjective.) So it seems we are back to the THREE possibilities I've quoted from the NETNotes scholars. Are you honest enough to acknowledge those THREE possibilities, Frank?

Mike,

It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!  

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 19 2012,23:04)

(a.)”No one has ever seen God.” (Because he is invisible 1 Tim 1:17 NLT.) (b.) “But the unique one, who is himself God, is near to Father's heart.” ( a God near the God's heart?…Crushing or a contradiction with the Oneness of the only true God) (c.) “He has revealed God to us.” (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us; Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

I know, limjunis.  It's just silly if you ask me.  Here is the NIV translation:

A.  No one has EVER seen God………. but John wrote this AFTER many people had seen Jesus.  

B.  but God the One and Only………. Jesus is “God the ONE and ONLY”?    

C.  who is at the Father's side……………..  God the ONE and ONLY is “at the Father's side”?  Does that mean the Father is NOT “God the ONE and ONLY”?  

D.  has made Him known…………Made WHO known? WHO exactly did Jesus make known? (John 17:26) And how can “God the ONE and ONLY” have a God of his own?  

Anyway, good post limjunis.  I see jammin is again refusing to actually address the points I'm making, choosing instead to play games and make accusations.  How typical of him.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,21:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2012,13:28) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,18:11) most greek scholars agree that the john 1.1 should be translated was God and not a god. Yes jammin. tnx for that answer. you agree now that most scholars agree that the right translation for john 1.1 is was God and not a god.

My question was simple, jammin. Do you acknowledge that there are THREE grammatical ways to translate John 1:1c? YES or NO?

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