JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[jammin]

ill repeat
limjunus,

do you agree that you and your father have the same nature, and that is your HUMAN NATURE? yes or no?

if you answer yes,
do you believe that your father is TRULY HUMAN?
yes or no?

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,12:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2012,12:51) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2012,19:40) Hi Mike, It sure is hard to get Jammin to answer questions; is it not? God bless Ed J Ed, It's not just jammin.  It's hard to get straight answers out of many people who realize the straight answer is going to hurt their doctrine. Some people become so comfortable with a lie that they no longer want to accept the truth that is right before their eyes.  (This happens in certain relationships also – where one knows the other is cheating, but doesn't really WANT to know, and so just ignores it, hoping it will go away.) this is true to you and to ed. until now u are not answering my easy question your father is truly human, do you believe that> yes or no?

Mike,

Jammin is diverting the issue to human nature and not to the nature (attributes) of God.

Human nature is easy to understand. Of course if the issue is the human nature, the answer is our father in the flesh is “truly human”

but the main issue is the nature (attributes) of God, and it is not easy to understand, like Jammin.

God nature (attributes) is; could no be multiplied like human nature, alone, holy, Almighty, invisible, immortal and etc., etc.,

So, which natuer (attributes) of God, Jesus Christ had, so that he could be equal with God?

Jammin, had failed to explain it, because he really do not know the nature of the one and only true God.

The danger with Jammin, is “he just found the verses that seem could be use to prove that Jesus is truly God, then stop and ignore the other truth in the Bible.

I am petty with him … Peace.

[jammin]

limjunus,

dreaming is all that you can do

[jammin]

limjunus said:
the answer is our father in the flesh is “truly human”

———
thanks.
now, are you truly HUMAN just like your father? yes or no?

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,20:49)

Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 07 2012,20:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 07 2012,09:16) Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 06 2012,04:59) ok I'll look at it with my trusted KJV! Why?  The info I just posted for you wasn't someone's “guess”, journey.  It is now a clear and undeniable FACT that the word “God” did not appear in any Greek ms of 1 Tim 3:16 until AFTER 200 AD. The earlier mss DO NOT have the word God in that verse.  When the KJV was translated, they translated from the oldest and best mss known to them AT THAT TIME.  We have since uncovered older and better ones – which is why the NASB, NIV, NRSV, and the other newer Bibles don't have the word “God” in that verse.  Neither do the ancient Syriac texts, nor the Latin Vulgate. Why would you even entertain jammin by using a translation that has been shown to be flawed in that particular verse?   An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken, or ceases to be honest. He (Jammin) even ignore the real context of John 20:24-31 Why Thomas exclaimed “My LORD and MY GOD!” The truth and fact is, Thomas, during that moment is not preaching who Jesus is? but instead he is the “unbeliever”. (doubting Thomas) When Jesus had prove to Thomas that he was raised from the dead by God, Thomas, exclaimed the words MY LORD AND MY GOD, is not to show that he recognize Jesus is his Lord and God, but to show his extreme guiltiness by exclaiming the words he had uttered. I will post many verses from different versions of the Bible, that bearing and seem the words that Jesus Christ is God, but all of it is not the truth regarding about “who is the one and only true God (.. invisible and immortal God). Peace     let me post john 20.28 of NLT John 20:28 New Living Translation (NLT) 28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed. limjunus is using this version to prove that this is not referring to christ as God. what is the stand of NLT for this?? let me post phil 2.6 of NLT Philippians 2:6 New Living Translation (NLT) 6 Though he was God,[a]    he did not think of equality with God    as something to cling to. the NLT believes that Christ is God —————- limjunus you are out of your mind boy. LOL make more research. your words are non sense.

Jammin,

I have my full explanation why I do not agree with your understanding. Just read the Bible context of the event between Jesus and Thomas. (John 20:24-28) It was self explanatory and very easy ti understand. Unlike your's, you just holding to a verse 28, and you are rushing for a conclusion with your own and just placing the truth about John 20:24-28 in a waste basket.

You are not REALLY digging the very deepest of the truth, why Thomas, exclaimed the words MY LORD MY GOD!?

See, you could not able to answers my question directly and you have a big guts to posture and pretending like a talented individual? Shame on you.

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,21:46)

ill repeat limjunus, do you agree that you and your father have the same nature, and that is your HUMAN NATURE? yes or no? if you answer yes, do you believe that your father is TRULY HUMAN? yes or no?

Read my answer Blind man!

Already answered, then question again?, just to escape!

Yohoooooooo Jammin, are you blind and deaf, where is your answers?

You should have a sense of humiliation. How can your face your opponents if you could not able to answer his questions?

May be your face is a double thicker?

[jammin]

you answered that ur father is truly human.

you did not answer if you are ALSO truly human just like your father

are you truly human JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER? YES OR NO?

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,22:20)

limjunus said: the answer is our father in the flesh is “truly human” ——— thanks. now, are you truly HUMAN just like your father? yes or no?

Even though it is not the subject matter, i will answer you again. blank shot! are human Jammin, so, if you are human, is your father human or not???

You said Jesus Christ, the begotten Son of God was in the nature of God, His Father is God, so the Son is also God, how many truly God do you have now?

[limjunus]

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE GOD, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

[limjunus]

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE GOD, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,22:20)

limjunus said: the answer is our father in the flesh is “truly human” ——— thanks. now, are you truly HUMAN just like your father? yes or no?

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE GOD, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 07 2012,21:46)

ill repeat limjunus, do you agree that you and your father have the same nature, and that is your HUMAN NATURE? yes or no? if you answer yes, do you believe that your father is TRULY HUMAN? yes or no?

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE GOD, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

[limjunus]

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE GOD, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

[limjunus]

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

Jammin are you still there?

[limjunus]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 08 2012,00:44)

you answered that ur father is truly human. you did not answer if you are ALSO truly human just like your father are you truly human JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER? YES OR NO?

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

Jammin you still around?

[limjunus]

Jammin, yohoooooo! where is your answer to my questions?

1.) HOW MANY TRUE GOD DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

2.) WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, IS JESUS CHRIST, THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD OR HIS FATHER WHO HAD BEGOTTEN HIM?

3.) WHO IS THE ALONE, INVISIBLE AND IMMORTAL GOD?

I will re-post it again and again like what you done until I got your answers.

Jammin, Jammin, Jammin, are you blind and deaf? Nabulunan ka ba at hindi ka makasagot?

[carmel]

Quote

given your own conclusion. Jesus ascending to my Father,.. is mean to you that from human being into a Supreme being?

Limjunus,

TO BE EXACT:

FROM  A WORM INTO GOD

With every respect, through your babyish  questions, you confirmed that you need MILK NOT MEAT.!!!

Before we start can you define how one can assert himself that something is in the truth??

Quote

If Jesus Christ is truly God, why need to be changed from truly God into truly God?

Are you not aware what glorification means???

Are you not aware that Jesus solidified what he had as a mere man??

Are you not aware that Jesus was a mere human, a worm, in order to be in all things like His brethren, and through His death and resurrection He unified His soul and His flesh into one eternal spiritual flesh body???

Are you not aware that through the above description, so not to repeat, Jesus , became both visible and invisible in one being???

Quote

another confusion is, “if the begotten Son is truly God, why changing from Son God into a Father God?

Are you not aware that Jesus, in view of the above, He is a visible TRULY God as man Jesus for our sake in order to own us, since we were owned by Satan, His contender for manhood. ALSO an invisible God, and a Father to us, in His Father  since He became ONE WITH HIS FATHER, in order to be an overall God, as soon as the Spirit of the Father entered Jesus’ Soul??

Are you not aware that the FATHER is also glorified and became even more Almighty considering the fact that scripture says:

John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine………….

Are you not aware that the above scripture says that Jesus a mere man, a worm, had to furnish the FATHER with all His (Jesus) THINGS, in order to make His Father TRUE, since up to then He was unknown even to His angels, NOT WITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT MOST OF YOU ON HEAVEN NET DECLARE THAT HE IS NOT THE TRUE GOD.

Are you not aware that Jesus, before creation He was in ONE glory with the Father as spirits, and after resurrection He became ONE in the same glory but in the flesh as well??

TO BE DECLARED THE TRULY GOD??

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Are you not aware that Jesus, after His glorification, since now you know what it means, He became OFFICIALLY the sole proprietor of the entire creation, something which God Almighty never was and not yet is, and He has to wait for millions and millions of years to achieve and become ALL IN ALL ON THE LAST DAY, AND  ALSO, SINCE HE IS ONLY SPIRIT,THROUGH JESUS,IN JESUS ,AND FOR JESUS BODY??

Did Jesus need from truly God(Human) to be changed to truly God both carnal and spiritual???  

Are you not aware, that the human race are not capable to save themselves, in fact they are dead, unless they give themselves entirely to Jesus, never mind Almighty God, not withstanding the fact that MOST OF YOU ON HEAVEN NET DECLARE THAT HE IS NOT THE TRUE GOD.

Are you not aware, that the cause of our creation, was only and purposely beneficial to the human race, and not to either God Almighty, and to Jesus.  

Quote

Another confusion you have made is, “If Jesus Christ is truly God, who is the flesh and died?

SATAN'S

This is a babyish question?? YOU NEED MILK,NOT MEAT!!

THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING, THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE!!

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

John6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing………….

Romans 8:1 THERE is now therefore no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT ACCORDING TO THE FLESH

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh; God sending his own Son, IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH AND OF SIN (SATAN'S) HATH CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH

4 That the justification of the law might be fulfilled in us, who WALK NOT ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

5 For they that are ACCORDING TO THE FLESH mind the things that are ACCORDING TO THE FLESH,BUT THEY THAT ARE ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT MIND THE THINGS THAT ARE OF THE SPIRIT.

6 For the WISDOM OF THE FLESH IS DEATH; but the WISDOM OF THE SPIRIT IS LIFE AND PEACE .

7 Because the WISDOM OF THE FLESH IS AN ENEMY OF GOD (SATAN'S); for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. 8 And they who are IN THE FLESH, CANNOT PLEASE GOD.

Peace and love in Jesus.

Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 06 2012,21:21)

Hi Mike, God is in the “Textus Receptus”. God bless Ed J

Yes Ed,

And that is likely why the KJV has “God” in 1 Tim 3:16 – because it was from the Textus Receptus that the KJV was translated.

But the Textus Receptus was compiled from “six manuscripts, containing between them not quite the whole of the New Testament. The missing text was back-translated from the Vulgate.”  And the Textus Receptus was “based mainly on late manuscripts of the Byzantine text-type…..”  (From Wikipedia)

Ed, note that the missing text was back-translated from the Latin Vulgate.  And the Latin Vulgate has “who”, not “God” in 1 Tim 3:16.  In fact, so does the Syriac mss, and all of the early Western mss.

We could go into “information overload” on this subject if we wanted to, but the bottom line is that the KJV was translated from later mss; and we know that many later mss contain scribal alterations.  For example, it was a later scribe that added the extra words in 1 John 5:7.  It was a later scribe that omitted the words “nor the Son” from Matthew 24:36.  And it was obviously a later scribe who changed “who” to “God” in 1 Tim 3:16.  Think about it Ed, NONE of the early Western mss have “God”, even though they were strictly Orthodox and defended the deity of Jesus with all their might.  Surely no Trinitarian scribe from their ranks would have changed “God” to “who”, right?  So it had to be the other way around.

Also consider that no recent Trinitarian sponsored translation of the Bible has “God” in 3:16 either.  Why?  Don't you suppose that if “God” wasn't KNOWN to be a scribal alteration, Bibles like the NIV (where the 100+ translators had to sign off on being a Trinitarian before they were allowed on the project) would JUMP at the chance to have “God” in their versions?  But none of them do.  Why?

The bottom line is that the OLDER, BETTER mss have “who” or “which”.

As a side note, also from Wiki:

…..in Matthew 24:36 which reads in the Alexandrian text “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only”; whereas the Byzantine text omits the phrase “nor the Son”, thereby avoiding the implication that Jesus lacked full divine foreknowledge.

This is why we MUST look into some of these things.  Various well-meaning Trinitarians have been doctoring God's Book for years.

Ed, I like the KJV.  I'm not trying to slam it here – but instead to point out that it was translated from later, somewhat doctored mss.

Here is some good, BRIEF information on this issue.  Take a look please.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 06 2012,22:13)

Mike If the word God wasn't used, then what word was?

Hi journey,

I'm sorry I came on so strong. I was just shocked to see that you would be willing to pick tradition over truth in this matter.

The original word was “who”, or “which”. But you can read my post to Ed right above this post if you want to know more.

(I suggest you read the link at the bottom of the page in my post to Ed. It is short and to the point, and should only take 10 minutes out of your life. )

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 06 2012,22:25)

Quote (journey42 @ Aug. 07 2012,15:09) . What version do you suggest I read? of course his one and only NEW WORLD TRANSLATION LOL

Yes jammin,

The NWT is a very good translation.  I actually prefer the NIV wording, and like it the best out of the four translations I've read cover to cover.

journey, I suggest using a site like NETBible, or  Biblos.com for “comparison shopping”.  

On those sites, you can view many parallel translations, plus check out the actual Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew words to see which translation comes the closest to the original.

There are also many commentaries you can read to find out even more concerning any particular scripture.

90% of the time, I quote the NIV when I quote scripture here.  But that is not to say that they don't also have their own oddball renderings.  Just check out John 1:18 in the NIV to see what I mean.  Talk about bizarre and confusing.  

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