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Quote (kerwin @ July 28 2012,12:20) Frank, Just because people choose to remain quiet does not mean they have no grievances.
You are not the only one that makes long posts; as some of those that judged you did must check their own works.
Yeshua chose to use symbolic language to confuse those that are not seeking Yahweh's righteousness and kingdom. I doubt you are doing that.
The wisdom he shares is:
Proverbs 23:9
King James Version (KJV)9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
kerwin,Okay, I will not speak in your ear anymore!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 29 2012,02:39) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 27 2012,17:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2012,10:04)
But it stands to reason that if he was existing in the form of God, emptied himself, and was made in the likeness of a human being, then he existed BEFORE being made in the likeness of a human being.It stands to reason that if Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world began, then he existed before the world began.
It stands to reason that if all things in heaven and earth were created through Jesus, then he existed before those things were created through him.
It stands to reason that if Jesus said he existed before Abraham, then he existed before he was born of Mary.
Mike,YOUR “Gods” do not exist and have no power whatsoever!
Good answer to my points, Frank.
Mike,YOUR “God” is dog spelled backwards!
The same with Jesus Christ, … He is the image of God, in terms of holiness or sinless and for being sinless he (Jesus Christ) as and for being the only human had the full compliance of the God's will, he is automatically and has been entitled to state of immortality (a human without any single sin could be died because the payment of the sin is death) making him equal with God.
Jesus Christ, did not grasped it (equality with God) but instead given it up by obeying his God, until to the death on the cross (sacrificing) for the sake of the sinners who were believing with him. Resulting for him to be lifted-up or elevated to the highest position (even though he is a human, fitting him to be the Lord and Savior) and given him a glorious name, above all name, God, his God permitting him (Jesus Christ) to be worshiped by men and all the angels for the glory of God. (Philippians 2:6-11 KJV/ GW)
After all and everything has been placed under the feet of the Son of God, the Son shall under the God, so that the One and only true God, the Father and not the Son shall be above all. (1 Cor. 15:26-28 KJV)
Jammin respond with the above post: limjunus: “: your words are non sense”
Jammin, it is not my words, it came from the holy scriptures ,Philippians 2:6-11 KJV / 1 Cor. 15:26-28 KJV)
Jammin arguments: “the bible says that Christ is truly God. i do not have a problem with john 17.3 bec it says there that the father is truly GOD. i only have one father. he is truly GOD. do you have two fathers who are truly GOD??or do you believe that there is only one father who is truly GOD?
the son is also truly GOD. john said that but you cant accept this truth. why dont you make your own bible boy? LOLMy respond: Still ignoring the very question of mine: WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD IS, Jesus Christ, the begotten Son of God or his Father in heaven who has begotten him?
Jammin and Kerwin, could not answer the question directly but instead avoiding and ignoring it. Why they could not answer? …because they really do not know who is the One and only true God or they could not accept the true doctrines of the real preachers that the only true God is “THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST IN HEAVEN WHO HAS BEGOTTEN HIM AS THE SON”.
They could not accept the truth revealed by apostle Paul, about the Father and the Son… saying this:
“After all and everything has been placed under the feet of the Son of God, the Son shall under the God, so that the One and only true God, the Father and not the Son shall be above all. (1 Cor. 15:26-28 KJV)
They could not accept the truth that their recognized truly God is under by the One and only true God, the Father. Shame on you. Make your on Bible saying…. is,… more fitted with you guys. LOL!
Another punch by Jammin, hitting the wind: “let me post another verse John 20:28
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
“Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”“according to john 20.28,
“thomas said to jesus that he is his Lord and GOD?. do you believe what the verse said? yes or no?As what I have post, I am not just relying with any Bible verses or passages from any version of the Bible. I am relying and believing what is the truth about God's will. The real and genuine doctrines of God, could not be found any contradicting teaching. I will give a very concrete example about it in accordance with your stand that you are believing only in what is written the Bible but not the truth about the will of God, or genuine doctrines of God.
Here is the verse you are relying to: John 20:28 “Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” and your conclusion with it is, Jesus Christ is the Lord and God addressing to by Thomas?
and here is the truth I am relying to: ” John 20:17 with the same version: “John 20:17
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)17. Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me. I have not yet returned to the Father. Instead, go to those who believe in me. Tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' “[U]
Jammin, take note, Jesus Christ is now spoken and addressing and pin-pointing-out that the One and only true God is his Father in heaven; clarifying, Thomas, that the Lord and God he had mentioned is for their Father and not to Jesus Christ, disregarding and removing your own conclusion with an indicator of false doctrine due with it's contradictory teaching.
Conclusion by Jammin with contradicting teaching: ” Thomas said that Jesus Christ is truly Lord and God and Jesus Christ opposing Jammin conclusion with John 20:28 by proclaiming that his Father is the One and only true God (John 20:17)
Conclusion by limjunus without contradicting teaching: Thomas is addressing the Father directly and not Jesus Christ,… because Jesus Christ had informed already his disciples before the event that the One and only true God, is his Father and their Father, his God and their God John 17:1-3 / 20:17
So, Jammin “The freedom of choice is a freedom of taste” chose the contradicting teaching or without contradicting teaching?
Peace!
Jammin, do you have more verses to be posted with your own and wrongful conclusion? Bring it out and let the readers show another contradicting doctrines of yours. Peace.:D
limjunus,
you did not answer my question.
ill repeat, do you believe the words of thomas to jesus?
yes or no?The verse that changed one Jewish “rabbi’s” life.
-Concerning Yesh’yahu 9:6 , the verse that caused one orthodox Jew, rabbi Isidor Zwirn, to become a believer in Yeshua. Isidor, in order to be accepted into the Yeshivah Rabbenu Yaacov Yoseph in New York city had to begin learning how to read the Hebrew prayers of the Siddur by age 3 and comprehend them by age 6. Then upon being accepted into the Yeshiva, the Torah became his text book that they studied daily every school day.
Every verse of Torah was required to be studied and discussed among classmates, and the meaning of each individual letter of each Hebrew word also had to be understood, and sometimes the meaning of a whole passage would hinge on the meaning of one single letter of one single word in the passage. He was completely and utterly fluent in Hebrew. He was also trained in the 3 rules of haMidrash of “respect for others views”, of “the thorough investigation of everybody else’s views in addition to your own”, and of “if two opposing views cannot be resolved, then they must be temporarily be set aside, until another view is provided that resolves the conflict and/or harmonizes the two positions”.
This man ultimately became a chief Rabbi, and the head of the Zionists studies program (His Zionist studies are what led Him to Yeshua), at an Orthodox synagogue in Burbank California where he was forcefully removed from behind the bema by police after he declared His belief in Yeshua as the long awaited Messiah of Israel.
This is Isidor’s literal translation of Yesh’yahu 9:6, the translation of which caused Him to believe that Yeshua had to be the Messiah. This is what he wrote concerning the words “Pele yoez el gibbor avi ad sar shalom”, he says “I read those last 8 Hebrew words, letter by letter, then translated them into English. ‘And they shall call his name a wonderful Counselor to the Almighty God and Everlasting Father, (also) Prince of Peace’.” Then he says, “This could be no other than the Messiah! Because certainly no finite being could counsel the Almighty God”.
So, Isidor, with his expertise in Hebrew and very in depth methodological study habits when studying Yesh’yahu 9:6 concluded from a purely unbiased linguistical perspective that Yeshua was a counselor to Yahuweh – a counselor to the Almighty God. In other words, as Yahuweh’s “right hand man”, and is the verse that forever changed his life. This is on page 56 of his book “A rabbi’s Search for Messiah”. So does this mean that Yeshua is not God? If it means He is not God, can Yeshua still be Elohim? Is there a difference in these two words?
[PDF] SOURCEDid Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
accept his rule and truth him,[/quote]
Quote 1)God the Father = YES
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first.Terraricca,
YOU SAID:
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
FIRST OF ALL
I SAID:His Son's Spirit, NOT CHRIST.
SECOND: His Son’s Spirit WAS NEVER CREATED.
Now read and reflect:
JOHN17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD, BEFORE THE WORLD WAS with thee.
the above scripture says it CLEAR ENOUGH, that Jesus' Spirit was with the glory of the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
SO it is clear that when the world was not in existence ,THEREFORE THE ENTIRE COSMOS,OBVIOUS THE WORLD WAS NOT CREATED ON ITS OWN,
SO NOTHING WAS YET CREATED, BUT JESUS' SPIRIT WAS WITHIN THE FATHER'S SPIRIT.
So if Satan existed , AND THIS CREATURE WAS CREATED THROUGH THE SON’S SPIRIT,AS AN ANGEL.
How on earth Jesus' Spirit didn't???
IF EVERYTHING WAS CREATED THROUGH JESUS' SPIRIT???
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
YOU SAID YES!! SO YESSSSSS!! It is irrelevant HOW!. So He was part of the foundation of the world. So AGAIN YES AS WELL
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first
Again YOU SAID YES, SO YESSSSSSS!!t is irrelevant HOW!
We are discussing the foundation of the world.
And on the foundation of the world Lucifer, when he was an angel was part of that foundation.
SINCE THE WORLD WAS ALWAYS HIS!!!
SO:
On the foundation of the WORLD, there was:
The Father.
The Son.
The Holy Spirit,
AND LUCIFER/Satan.
NOW ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES OBVIOUS THE OT.WHO WAS UNKNOWN, WHO WAS HIDDEN??
THE FATHER???
JESUS HIS SON???
THE HOLY SPIRIT???
OR LUCIFR/SATAN.???
AGAIN IN THE OT.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
Quote (carmel @ Aug. 02 2012,14:32) accept his rule and truth him, Quote 1)God the Father = YES
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first.Terraricca,
YOU SAID:
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
FIRST OF ALL
I SAID:His Son's Spirit, NOT CHRIST.
SECOND: His Son’s Spirit WAS NEVER CREATED.
Now read and reflect:
JOHN17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD, BEFORE THE WORLD WAS with thee.
the above scripture says it CLEAR ENOUGH, that Jesus' Spirit was with the glory of the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
SO it is clear that when the world was not in existence ,THEREFORE THE ENTIRE COSMOS,OBVIOUS THE WORLD WAS NOT CREATED ON ITS OWN,
SO NOTHING WAS YET CREATED, BUT JESUS' SPIRIT WAS WITHIN THE FATHER'S SPIRIT.
So if Satan existed , AND THIS CREATURE WAS CREATED THROUGH THE SON’S SPIRIT,AS AN ANGEL.
How on earth Jesus' Spirit didn't???
IF EVERYTHING WAS CREATED THROUGH JESUS' SPIRIT???
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
YOU SAID YES!! SO YESSSSSS!! It is irrelevant HOW!. So He was part of the foundation of the world. So AGAIN YES AS WELL
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first
Again YOU SAID YES, SO YESSSSSSS!!t is irrelevant HOW!
We are discussing the foundation of the world.
And on the foundation of the world Lucifer, when he was an angel was part of that foundation.
SINCE THE WORLD WAS ALWAYS HIS!!!
SO:
On the foundation of the WORLD, there was:
The Father.
The Son.
The Holy Spirit,
AND LUCIFER/Satan.
NOW ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES OBVIOUS THE OT.WHO WAS UNKNOWN, WHO WAS HIDDEN??
THE FATHER???
JESUS HIS SON???
THE HOLY SPIRIT???
OR LUCIFR/SATAN.???
AGAIN IN THE OT.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES[/quote]
Charles
[/QUOTE]look ;this is what I believe and what I found in scriptures;
1) God was at one point alone
2) creation start with Christ ;Col 1;15-21
3) Christ came down from heaven;Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man(means himself)
4)Christ returned to heaven after he finish his work on earth;
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”Mk 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.5)God his a being and as a soul,so he his one in himself,
6)Christ was created by God as a being independent of his father like all of his angels and us human,free to be obedient or revolt both options were open for all.
7)Satan is one that chose to revolt and with the consequences that we all know .
8) the holy spirit is the will of God and comes with his love and wisdom to all;but not all wanted or search it and so is wasted.
9)the spirit of Christ his all what encompass his work with the reconciliation to God of all God creation,wen that is done ,then ALL WILL OF GOD AND IN GOD (meaning the end of the revolt)
10) now in creation it sit like this ;A)God ;always existed
B)Christ being son of God and only begotten from God,C)angels;or all spiritual beings are created through the son ;
D) now first comes the universe all of it
E) now God comes to the earth and look upon it and start to change it and made it ready for men
F) man his created,
G)now the rebellion is made clear and so is born sin and the opposition to Gods rules ,this is were Satan is declared rebel.FROM HERE ,it is a struggle to go back to what was lost .
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 02 2012,08:35) Quote (carmel @ Aug. 02 2012,14:32) accept his rule and truth him, Quote 1)God the Father = YES
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first.Terraricca,
YOU SAID:
2)His Son's Spirit, WITHIN Him = WRONG ;christ was the first thing that God created before all others .
FIRST OF ALL
I SAID:His Son's Spirit, NOT CHRIST.
SECOND: His Son’s Spirit WAS NEVER CREATED.
Now read and reflect:
JOHN17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD, BEFORE THE WORLD WAS with thee.
the above scripture says it CLEAR ENOUGH, that Jesus' Spirit was with the glory of the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
SO it is clear that when the world was not in existence ,THEREFORE THE ENTIRE COSMOS,OBVIOUS THE WORLD WAS NOT CREATED ON ITS OWN,
SO NOTHING WAS YET CREATED, BUT JESUS' SPIRIT WAS WITHIN THE FATHER'S SPIRIT.
So if Satan existed , AND THIS CREATURE WAS CREATED THROUGH THE SON’S SPIRIT,AS AN ANGEL.
How on earth Jesus' Spirit didn't???
IF EVERYTHING WAS CREATED THROUGH JESUS' SPIRIT???
3)the Holy Spirit,yes but the holy spirit is from God so one and three are together
YOU SAID YES!! SO YESSSSSS!! It is irrelevant HOW!. So He was part of the foundation of the world. So AGAIN YES AS WELL
4)Satan/Lucifer and his angels!! yes they were there at the transformation of the earth into a living planet ,but not in the beginning of time ,Christ was first
Again YOU SAID YES, SO YESSSSSSS!!t is irrelevant HOW!
We are discussing the foundation of the world.
And on the foundation of the world Lucifer, when he was an angel was part of that foundation.
SINCE THE WORLD WAS ALWAYS HIS!!!
SO:
On the foundation of the WORLD, there was:
The Father.
The Son.
The Holy Spirit,
AND LUCIFER/Satan.
NOW ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES OBVIOUS THE OT.WHO WAS UNKNOWN, WHO WAS HIDDEN??
THE FATHER???
JESUS HIS SON???
THE HOLY SPIRIT???
OR LUCIFR/SATAN.???
AGAIN IN THE OT.
PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS
CHARLES
Quote Charles look ;this is what I believe and what I found in scriptures;
1) God was at one point alone
2) creation start with Christ ;Col 1;15-21
3) Christ came down from heaven;Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man(means himself)
4)Christ returned to heaven after he finish his work on earth;
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”Mk 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.5)God his a being and as a soul,so he his one in himself,
6)Christ was created by God as a being independent of his father like all of his angels and us human,free to be obedient or revolt both options were open for all.
7)Satan is one that chose to revolt and with the consequences that we all know .
8) the holy spirit is the will of God and comes with his love and wisdom to all;but not all wanted or search it and so is wasted.
9)the spirit of Christ his all what encompass his work with the reconciliation to God of all God creation,wen that is done ,then ALL WILL OF GOD AND IN GOD (meaning the end of the revolt)
10) now in creation it sit like this ;A)God ;always existed
B)Christ being son of God and only begotten from God,C)angels;or all spiritual beings are created through the son ;
D) now first comes the universe all of it
E) now God comes to the earth and look upon it and start to change it and made it ready for men
F) man his created,
G)now the rebellion is made clear and so is born sin and the opposition to Gods rules ,this is were Satan is declared rebel.FROM HERE ,it is a struggle to go back to what was lost .
1) Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.
This says Yahweh, your redeemer, and He that formed you from the womb, I am Yahweh that makes all things; that stretches forth the heavens ALONE; that spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF; … (Isayah 44:24)
You, even You, are Yahweh ALONE; You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and You preserve them all; and the host of heaven worships You (Nehemyah 9:6).
2) Creation did not start with Messiah [“Christ”], since Yahshua was not anointed {messiah, “christ”} to be King at creation in the beginning. Yahshua was the first of ALL creation AS A WHOLE. Father Yahweh is still in the creation process (Colossians 1:15-21)
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:153) Messiah did not LITERALLY “come down from heaven” as a pre-existent being that was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning (Yahchanan [John] 3:13). Again, Yahshua was not an anointed one {messiah [“christ”]} to be King at creation in the beginning.
Yahshua “Came Down From Heaven”?
…
limjunis,
The logical points you are making are very good. Don't expect to get anywhere with them though, for many have tried.
It stands to reason that if Jesus was existing in the form OF God, then he can't possibly BE the very God in whose form he was existing.
It also stands to reason that, in 1 John 5:20, the one called “the true God” is the one who has a Son named Jesus. If Jesus doesn't have a Son named Jesus, then he can't possibly be the “true God” John was talking about.
I have directly asked jammin how many Gods he has, and then whether or not his God has a Son named Jesus. But you have only been posting here for a little over a week, and already I can tell from your posts that you are starting to figure people like jammin and Kerwin out.
These kinds of people are going to believe whatever it is they WANT to believe, no matter what logic and the scriptures say about it. And they will buck against logic and scripture to the point that the words they post make them sound like unintelligent, nonsensical people.
Anyway, I dropped this line to tell you that you are making good points, AND backing those points up with scripture – which should be what it's all about here. So kudos to you.
Also, I wanted to let you know that your posts will be easier for us to read if you apply the “Quote” function. Next time, try this:
jammin said:
(hit quote button at top of page) Blah, blah, blah…….Jesus is the very God he is the Son of………. blah, blah blah. (then hit the quote button a second time)This is what it will look like:
jammin said:
Quote Blah, blah, blah…….Jesus is the very God he is the Son of………. blah, blah blah. I'm not trying to tell you how to do it, but the rest of us will be able to read your points easier if you put their words in a quote box so they stand out from your words.
peace,
mikejammin,
When Paul says Jesus was existing in the form of “God”, what did he mean by the word “God”?
A. An individual being?
B. A species?F
Quote 1) Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. This says Yahweh, your redeemer, and He that formed you from the womb, I am Yahweh that makes all things; that stretches forth the heavens ALONE; that spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF; … (Isayah 44:24)
You, even You, are Yahweh ALONE; You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and You preserve them all; and the host of heaven worships You (Nehemyah 9:6).
Father Yahweh ALONE Created
2) Creation did not start with Messiah [“Christ”], since Yahshua was not anointed {messiah, “christ”} to be King at creation in the beginning. Yahshua was the first of ALL creation AS A WHOLE. Father Yahweh is still in the creation process (Colossians 1:15-21)
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:153) Messiah did not LITERALLY “come down from heaven” as a pre-existent being that was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning (Yahchanan [John] 3:13). Again, Yahshua was not an anointed one {messiah [“christ”]} to be King at creation in the beginning.
Yahshua “Came Down From Heaven”?
…
————–
I never saw an Architect building his design building with his own hands, I was but one of is participants in his creation work being a Carpenter ,but my friend that was a plumber also helped,so was the excavator,and the structural engineer ,ect
God his the greater Architect of all times and it is only him that could created all those things ,but he guided many to built his temple of Salomon,why would he have not used his angel and his only son
????Now, Jammin has a gut to force me to answer his question and forgotten himself to answer mine.
Here is Jammin post with question: “limjunus, you did not answer my question. ill repeat, do you believe the words of thomas to jesus? yes or no? MY ANSWER IS NO WITH YOUR TWISTING CONCLUSION.
Limjunus respond: Jammin, do not force me to agree with your own understanding and conclusion. Thomas, did not address his saying to Jesus, but instead Thomas, is indirectly uttering that words as “MY LORD AND MY GOD! (OMG!) with his extremely sudden emotion and showing his complete guiltiness in opposing the doctrine of “resurrection”, a fundamental teaching of Jesus …. and the issue with Thomas, is not who is the one and only true God? Thomas had knew it in the first place in John 17:1-3 and John 20:17.
The issue with Thomas and that event is, did Jesus, really had raised from the dead by God? Thomas really do not believe with the resurrection doctrines” unless he could see, Jesus in person and the touch by his hands the implicated wounds. When Jesus, personally proven the “resurrection doctrine” by himself, Thomas, shocked and extremely shouted “MY LORD MY GOD! as OMG!
Try to read this again Jammin: “Here is the verse you are relying to: John 20:28 “Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” and your conclusion with it is, Jesus Christ is the Lord and God addressing to by Thomas?
and here is the truth I am relying to: ” John 20:17 with the same version: “John 20:17
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)17. Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me. I have not yet returned to the Father. Instead, go to those who believe in me. Tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' “[U]
Jammin, take note, Jesus Christ is now spoken and addressing and pin-pointing-out that the One and only true God is his Father in heaven; clarifying, Thomas, that the Lord and God he had mentioned is for their Father and not to Jesus Christ, disregarding and removing your own conclusion with an indicator of false doctrine due with it's contradictory teaching.
Conclusion by Jammin with contradicting teaching: ” Thomas said that Jesus Christ is truly Lord and God and Jesus Christ opposing Jammin conclusion with John 20:28 by proclaiming that his Father is the One and only true God (John 20:17)
Conclusion by limjunus without contradicting teaching: Thomas is addressing the Father directly and not Jesus Christ,… because Jesus Christ had informed already his disciples before the event that the One and only true God, is his Father and their Father, his God and their God John 17:1-3 / 20:17
So, Jammin “The freedom of choice is a freedom of taste” chose the contradicting teaching or without contradicting teaching?
Peace!
Jammin, do not force me to agree with your own understanding and conclusion. Thomas, did not address his saying to Jesus, but instead Thomas, is indirectly uttering that words as “MY LORD AND MY GOD! (OMG!) with his extremely sudden emotion and showing his complete guiltiness in opposing the doctrine of “resurrection”, a fundamental teaching of Jesus …. and the issue with Thomas, is not who is the one and only true God? Thomas had knew it in the first place in John 17:1-3 and John 20:17.
The issue with Thomas and that event is, did Jesus, really had raised from the dead by God? Thomas really do not believe with the resurrection doctrines” unless he could see, Jesus in person and the touch by his hands the implicated wounds. When Jesus, personally proven the “resurrection doctrine” by himself, Thomas, shocked and extremely shouted “MY LORD MY GOD! as OMG! Take note: With exclamation point mark (!) …shouting with extremely shocking emotion and guilt.
Peace.
I'm not trying to tell you how to do it, but the rest of us will be able to read your points easier if you put their words in a quote box so they stand out from your words.
peace,
mikeI will do it next time.
Thanks Mike
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