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Marty,
The KJV also says “by him” in John 1:3. Why would you answer YES to that question, but then start making distinctions about Col 1:16?
Answer my question, jammin.
Does the word “God”, with a capital “G”, ALMOST ALWAYS identify the One who created the universe and everything in it?
Or does it usually refer to the “nature” of some “species”?
You can ask for help if you like.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,08:33) Charles, We have but one Almighty God. That one has a Son named Jesus. Unless Jesus has a Son named Jesus, he is not that one Almighty God. End of story.
P.S. Did you read my posts to Pierre just now about not posting the entire quote each time? You know how you put my words in a quote box and then addressed them? Keep doing that, but before you submit your post, delete the words from the bottom box. There is no reason to post the words from that bottom box when you've already quoted those words yourself. Why post the same words twice?
Do you understand what I'm saying, and how to do it?
Quote We have but one Almighty God. Mike,
I said many times:
NO ONE IS CAPABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT:
ALMIGHTY GOD INCORPORATES, OR DETERMINES HIS TOTAL ATTRIBUTES.INFACT THEY ARE WITHOUT A LIMIT.
NO ONE IS CAPABLE TO DEFINE AND TALK ABOUT
ALMIGHTY GOD WITHOUT INVOLVING THE SON,AND ALSO THE HOLY SPIRITNO ONE IS CAPABLE TO PRODUCE AN EVIDENCE REGARDING ALMIGHTY GOD IF NOT THROUGH THE SON. THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD.ONLY THE SON REVEALED THE TRUTH ABOUT ALMIGHTY GOD.
John 3:35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
FROM THE VERY FIRST EVER CREATED ARCHANGEL,THE FATHER WAS IN THE SON.APART ALSO THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BUT LET'S CONCENTRATE ON THE FATHER AND THE SON.
THE SON WAS A MEDIATOR IN ALL THE ENTIRE CREATURES.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME IF THE SON HELD HIS FATHER WITHIN, AND POSSESSED ALL THINGS WHICH BELONGED TO THE FATHER, AND IN THE SAME TIME IS NOT EQUALTO THE FATHER,OR IS NOT THE SAME GENUINE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER. ONLY THE SON INCORPORATED THE FATHER WITHIN,THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CREATION,AGAIN NOT WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT INVOLVEMNT SINCE THE FATHER REMAINED IN HEAVEN.
SO ALTHOUGH THEY ARE TWO PERSONS, THEY STILL REPRESENT THE ONE SAME GOD.
YOU HAVE A SOUL. YOU HAVE A BODY.
ALTHOUGH THEY ARE TWO ENTITIES, THEY STILL REPRESENT ONE PERSON.MIKE!!
THE SOUL CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THE BODY AND VISE VERSA.
TO CONCLUDE:
the greate Augostine said:
Our thoughts concerning God fall, “…very far short of Him of whom we think,
nor comprehends Him as He is; but He is seen, as it is written, even by those who are so
great as was the Apostle Paul, ‘through a glass and in an enigma.”Peace and love in Jesus,
Charles
Charles
Quote THE SON WAS A MEDIATOR IN ALL THE ENTIRE CREATURES. do you think that Christ was created a MEDIATOR
or did he became one at a time Charles
Quote SO ALTHOUGH THEY ARE TWO PERSONS, THEY STILL REPRESENT THE ONE SAME GOD. YOU HAVE A SOUL. YOU HAVE A BODY.
ALTHOUGH THEY ARE TWO ENTITIES, THEY STILL REPRESENT ONE PERSON.MIKE!!
THE SOUL CANNOT FUNCTION WITHOUT THE BODY AND VISE VERSA.
if they are two separate persons they can not represent one person ;one his and the other can be a representation of the first one ,
Quote THEY STILL REPRESENT THE ONE SAME GOD. so are anyone person that chose to serve God with all his heart and mind and strength
charles
Quote TO CONCLUDE: the greate Augostine said:
Our thoughts concerning God fall, “…very far short of Him of whom we think,
nor comprehends Him as He is; but He is seen, as it is written, even by those who are so
great as was the Apostle Paul, ‘through a glass and in an enigma.”if you think about God then you can not listen to him
P.S. just “Augustine “will do
Quote (terraricca @ July 23 2012,01:17) Charles Quote THE SON WAS A MEDIATOR IN ALL THE ENTIRE CREATURES. do you think that Christ was created a MEDIATOR
or did he became one at a time Quote do you think that Christ was created a MEDIATOR or did he became one at a time Terraricca,
If you know the meaning of MEDIATOR in the spiritual sense, you should know that nothing ,and I repeat nothing could ever be created without.
But I'll make you reflect.:
GOD IS A UNIQUE PURE DEADLY SPIRIT OF LOVE.
I said deadly because the most pure ceature ever created by God, could never possess the Father Spirit in Him directly, for the simple reason that God would eradicate this creature even with the least feeling of pride, which the Father expect even from such a creature so close to His purity,since he is created. The Father could make creatures as perfect as Him but that would establish rather an egoistic creator to think of Himself more then to create creatures with a free will like Himself, and let them establish themselves how close to HIm His creatures would prefer to be.
The omnipotence of God's love is always to give all creatures total freedom to establish themselves the way they want to be, even the most imperfect,and work only through His unfathomable love, through their free will and without the least awareness of His work,to make them perfect.
Now here comes the Son, the Mediator, for the simple reason that the Son was in the bossom of the Father, which means that He was never created,He was the same genuine Spirit of the Father,therefore He was as perfect as the Father, and only Him could hold His Father within Him without being Harmed and in the same time protect both the entire creatures from being destroyed by the Father,and in the same time prevent all kind of imperfection to reach the Father.
In this way the cratures are given total freedom, and the Father works through His Son to lead all imperfect creatures into perfection no matter how long since for God 1 minute is equal to thousand years,and vise versa.
To remind you if therefore Jesus was created, He would have been a creature, not His direct Son, already perfect,and He would have never had the direct experience of the Father.
The main reason that God created all by Him, all in Him, and all for Him.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (terraricca @ July 23 2012,01:27) charles Quote TO CONCLUDE: the greate Augostine said:
Our thoughts concerning God fall, “…very far short of Him of whom we think,
nor comprehends Him as He is; but He is seen, as it is written, even by those who are so
great as was the Apostle Paul, ‘through a glass and in an enigma.”if you think about God then you can not listen to him
P.S. just “Augustine “will do
Quote if you think about God then you can not listen to him ,
Terraricca,
Luke:10 :22 All things are delivered to me of my Father:
SINCE THE FATHER IS WITHIN HIM
and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
SO IT IS AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL GOD IS AN ENIGMA!!
THE SON DECIDE TO WHOM HE REVEALS THE FATHER TO.
MOTHER TERESA AT THE VERY END COULDN'T BELIEVE IN GOD OR JESUS BECAUSE HE NEVER SPOKE TO HER.
OR SHE COULDN'T HERE HIM WHICH IS MORE LIKELY.
I BELEIVE IT IS MORE HOW MUCH WE SPEAK TO HIM IN THE TRUTH RATHER
IF I TELL YOU THAT I HEAR HIM , WOULD YOU BELIEVE ME???
Peace and love in Jesus
charles
Quote if they are two separate persons they can not represent one person Terraricca,
Do you accept that God is an enigma??
the word person is only for us in order to understand as much as possible who God is, but we creatures cannot possess the right appropriate words to describe God.
there's no Father, there's no Son in the same understanding as ours.
that's why Jesus said no one knows who the Father is ……….
That why Jesus came like us in our world with the hope that we believe in His existance.
SINCE HE BECAME A GOD LIKE US.
Can you understand that God never had a beginning??
It is the most difficult concept for us, it cause me a head ache if I reflect on it.
I simply accept since it refers to God.
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ July 21 2012,23:51) NO ONE IS CAPABLE TO PRODUCE AN EVIDENCE REGARDING ALMIGHTY GOD IF NOT THROUGH THE SON.
That should tell you that one is “reachable” to us, while the other is only reachable by going THROUGH that first one. Surely this implies a HUGE difference between the one we can access, and the One who is inaccessable without the other. “Equality” would required that we have to go through God to get to Jesus as well as going through Jesus to get to God. But that is not the case, is it?Quote (carmel @ July 21 2012,23:51) CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME IF THE SON HELD HIS FATHER WITHIN, AND POSSESSED ALL THINGS WHICH BELONGED TO THE FATHER, AND IN THE SAME TIME IS NOT EQUALTO THE FATHER
I can explain it with two scriptures, Charles:Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.Do you see the word “GIVEN”? That word implies that Jesus did not ALWAYS have this authority, but that it was GIVEN to him by someone GREATER than him. Who ever had to GIVE any authority to God Almighty?
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
Do you see the first sentence, Charles? Reading only that sentence, it would be easy for Trinitarians like you to claim equality between Jesus and his God. But now notice the underlined part. Notice especially the words “it is clear”. This is the only verse in the Bible where Paul adds this common sense disclaimer, but the common sense part carries throughout the entire scriptures. Paul is saying, “Yes, Jesus is very high up in the order of things, but common sense should tell us that he is not as high as his own God, who is the One that placed him in his high position in the first place.”
You need to apply this same common sense to the rest of the scriptures, Charles. Take the first scripture I quoted above for instance: YOU want to read that to say Jesus is EQUAL TO his God. But if you apply Paul's common sense from 1 Cor 15 to Matt 28:18, you'll understand that Jesus has been given all authority, but it is clear that this doesn't mean authority that is equal to or greater than his own God, who is the One who GAVE him that authority in the first place.
As you go through the scriptures, and see a verse that seems to you to be equalizing Jesus with the God who brought him into existence, just remember to add Paul's little disclaimer from 1 Cor 15: it is clear this does not include God Himself, who made Jesus as great as he is in the first place.
Charles and Pierre,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for deleting the extra stuff and only posting the part you are responding to!
(It seems Charles has remembered to delete the extra by the time he did his last post here. I know habits are hard to break, so good job!)This makes your conversation take up way less space, and makes it very easy for the rest of us to follow your debate.
Well done!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,13:23) Marty, The KJV also says “by him” in John 1:3. Why would you answer YES to that question, but then start making distinctions about Col 1:16?
Hi Mike:Because I thought that KJV in Colossians 1:16 used the word “through him” but it does not it uses the word “by” also, but as I stated if the the word “through him” is used, it depends what is meant by “through him”.
In John 1:3 the word “by” is in the Greek “dia” and the meaning is:
Quote Word Origin: a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
TDNT:
2:65,149
Part of Speech:
prep
Usage in the KJV:
by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore 5124 44, for this cause 5124 14, because 53, misc 86
Total: 647
Definition:
1.through A.of place a.with
b.inB.of time a.throughout
b.duringC.of means a.by
b.by the means of2.through A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done a.by reason of
b.on account of
c.because of for this reason
d.therefore
e.on this accountTDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old TestamentAnd definition #2(A) is more than likely what is meant.
Love in Christ,
MartyOkay Marty,
I'll adjust my last two questions to use the word “dia” and not “by” or “through”. (I will retain your answer of “YES” to the John 1:3 question, since it is the only possible answer.)
Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,16:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,09:45) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,15:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,13:26) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,20:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:52) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,19:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:15) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2012,18:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2012,16:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2012,01:14) Quote (942767 @ June 30 2012,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,10:14) Marty, Is it scriptural that John the Baptist called Jesus “the Lamb of God” – even though Jesus wasn't literally a lamb? YES or NO?
Yes.
Hi Marty,And is it scriptural that Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” – even though he is not literally a spoke word from God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that Jesus is called the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that the Word that was made flesh dwelled on earth with the glory of the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Hi Mike:Yes
And is it scriptural that in the Word was life? (John 1:4)
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And is it scriptural that in Jesus was life? (1 John 5:11) YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia the Word of God? (John 1:3)
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia Jesus? (Col 1:16) YES or NO?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 23 2012,09:59) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,16:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,09:45) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,15:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,13:26) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,20:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:52) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,19:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:15) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2012,18:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2012,16:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2012,01:14) Quote (942767 @ June 30 2012,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,10:14) Marty, Is it scriptural that John the Baptist called Jesus “the Lamb of God” – even though Jesus wasn't literally a lamb? YES or NO?
Yes.
Hi Marty,And is it scriptural that Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” – even though he is not literally a spoke word from God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that Jesus is called the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that the Word that was made flesh dwelled on earth with the glory of the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Hi Mike:Yes
And is it scriptural that in the Word was life? (John 1:4)
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And is it scriptural that in Jesus was life? (1 John 5:11) YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia the Word of God? (John 1:3)
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia Jesus? (Col 1:16) YES or NO?
Yes.Quote (942767 @ July 22 2012,17:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 23 2012,09:59) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,16:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,09:45) Quote (942767 @ July 21 2012,15:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,13:26) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,20:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:52) Quote (942767 @ July 18 2012,19:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2012,12:15) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2012,18:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2012,16:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2012,01:14) Quote (942767 @ June 30 2012,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,10:14) Marty, Is it scriptural that John the Baptist called Jesus “the Lamb of God” – even though Jesus wasn't literally a lamb? YES or NO?
Yes.
Hi Marty,And is it scriptural that Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” – even though he is not literally a spoke word from God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that Jesus is called the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that the Word that was made flesh dwelled on earth with the glory of the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?
Hi Mike:Yes
And is it scriptural that in the Word was life? (John 1:4)
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And is it scriptural that in Jesus was life? (1 John 5:11) YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia the Word of God? (John 1:3)
Yes.
And is it scriptural that all things were createdthroughdia Jesus? (Col 1:16) YES or NO?
Yes.
And is it scriptural that John the Baptist said the following words about The Word? He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me. (John 1:15) YES or NO?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2012,14:45) Answer my question, jammin. Does the word “God”, with a capital “G”, ALMOST ALWAYS identify the One who created the universe and everything in it?
Or does it usually refer to the “nature” of some “species”?
You can ask for help if you like.
i still have a question for you boy
before i answer your question, you must answer minedo you have two natures or form mike? or you only have one form or nature and that is your human nature?
yes or no?
Hi Mike:
John the Baptist said what you quoted from the scripture about Jesus. The Word is Logos which is what God has spoken and it emodies a plan. The Logos pertains to Jesus but the Word is not Jesus as some form of being prior to his being born into this world from the virgin Mary.
Love in Christ,
MartyCharles
Quote I said deadly because the most pure ceature ever created by God, could never possess the Father Spirit in Him directly, for the simple reason that God would eradicate this creature even with the least feeling of pride, which the Father expect even from such a creature so close to His purity,since he is created so the book of JOB and Satan is a false book
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