John 1:1

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Yes he has been transformed by the Word into a mighty leader, the Son of God.
We follow him into that blessing

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2012,11:27)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2012,04:34) Well, let's see, Kerwin:  Jesus, as God's only begotten Son, surely dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten, right? Who else did? Mike; I have no problem with claiming that the Word has a glory as of Jesus Christ; since that is inferred by Scripture.

So, in your understanding, there were TWO who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten – both Jesus Christ, the actual Son of God, and the Word?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2012,16:12)

Hi T, Yes he has been transformed by the Word into a mighty leader, the Son of God. We follow him into that blessing

N

I have to shake my head

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2012,04:23)

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2012,11:27) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2012,04:34) Well, let's see, Kerwin:  Jesus, as God's only begotten Son, surely dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten, right? Who else did? Mike; I have no problem with claiming that the Word has a glory as of Jesus Christ; since that is inferred by Scripture. So, in your understanding, there were TWO who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten – both Jesus Christ, the actual Son of God, and the Word?

Mike,

I just replaced Only begotten with Jesus Christ;since he is the only begotten Son of God. John 1:14 stated the rest.

We beheld the Word's glory, the glory as of the only begotten Son of Jehovah; Jesus Christ.

That certainly looks like the Word and the Only begotten are two different things with glories that are like one another.

I believe Jesus is the preeminent Son of God through who all others are born through the Word.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2012,17:40)

I just replaced Only begotten with Jesus Christ;since he is the only begotten Son of God.

I agree, as that is the ONLY logical scenario.  After all, we all know that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of God, and would naturally possess the glory of the only begotten of God.

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2012,17:40)

John 1:14 stated the rest.

Here is where you run into trouble.  For one thing, look at 1:14 in context:

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said,'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”

Do you see how the pronouns “his” in verse 14 refer to the same subject as the pronoun “him” in verse 15?  Whatever or whoever became flesh is the same thing/person about whom John said the green words above.  And we know from verses 29 and 30 that these words were said about Jesus.

But that's only your first problem, Kerwin, because you said:

Quote (kerwin @ May 29 2012,17:40)

That certainly looks like the Word and the Only begotten are two different things with glories that are like one another.

Why would anyone except for the only begotten Son of God possess the glory of the only begotten Son of God?  Right off the bat, we're moving into nonsense territory with this claim.

Plus, understanding that there are two is going to open up the same problems Nick has with his understanding.  We can get to those many problems after you explain the green words of John the Baptist above, because I wanted to keep the post short.

[jammin]

kerwin

make your own bible.

i believe what the bible says

John 20:28

Common English Bible (CEB)

28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

[Ed J]

Quote (jammin @ May 30 2012,12:05)

kerwin make your own bible. i believe what the bible says John 20:28 Common English Bible (CEB) 28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

Hi Jammin, 2 Cor 5:19 spells out clearly why Thomas said what he said…

      Thomas said: unless I see and touch I will not believe.

---

      Jesus said to Philip: (John 14:11) Believe me that I in the Father,
      and the Father in me: “or else” believe me for the very works sake.
      Thomas believed THE WORK of God the Father!

---

      To wit, that  God was in Christ,  reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)
      Thomas said My Lord and my God  because Thomas finally believed
      what Jesus told Philip: to believe for THE VERY WORKS SAKE!

---

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Jammin,

I suggest that you don't make your own bible.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2012,19:15)

Hi, The Spirit of Christ is the WORD. The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy[rev19]

Hi Nick.

Agree: the spirit of truth is in the word,and Jesus is the word,the truth is in him.(inside him).
And the word was made flesh and dwelleth amongst us.
The word is the word of God that created all things.
God is truth; what comes out of the mouth of God(his word) is truth.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,12:51)

Hi Jammin, 2 Cor 5:19 spells out clearly why Thomas said what he said…       Thomas said: unless I see and touch I will not believe.       Jesus said to Philip: (John 14:11) Believe me that I in the Father,       and the Father in me: “or else” believe me for the very works sake.       Thomas believed THE WORK of God the Father!       To wit, that  God was in Christ,  reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)       Thomas said My Lord and my God  because Thomas finally believed       what Jesus told Philip: to believe for THE VERY WORKS SAKE! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wakeup,

Would you please comment on this post?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Mike;

Quote

I agree, as that is the ONLY logical scenario.  After all, we all know that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of God, and would naturally possess the glory of the only begotten of God.

My reasoning may be flawed as John may have been speaking of the title; and not the One who would come to inherit it.

Quote

Here is where you run into trouble.  For one thing, look at 1:14 in context: 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said,'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’” Do you see how the pronouns “his” in verse 14 refer to the same subject as the pronoun “him” in verse 15?  Whatever or whoever became flesh is the same thing/person about whom John said the green words above.  And we know from verses 29 and 30 that these words were said about Jesus.

Provided the punctuation is correct and John is not speaking of the Only Begotten of God then he is speaking of the Word and not Jesus though the Word is doing all things through Jesus at that time.   John 1:30 applies the same words to Jesus Christ because the Word continuously does all things through him.

Word is a male gendered noun in Ancient Greek and so is correctly replaced with a male gendered pronoun.  

Quote

Why would anyone except for the only begotten Son of God possess the glory of the only begotten Son of God?  Right off the bat, we're moving into nonsense territory with this claim.

“Put on the new man created like God in true righteousness and holiness.”

Quote

Plus, understanding that there are two is going to open up the same problems Nick has with his understanding.

They are now united.

[jammin]

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,12:51)

Quote (jammin @ May 30 2012,12:05) kerwin make your own bible. i believe what the bible says John 20:28 Common English Bible (CEB) 28 Thomas responded to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!” Hi Jammin, 2 Cor 5:19 spells out clearly why Thomas said what he said…       Thomas said: unless I see and touch I will not believe.       Jesus said to Philip: (John 14:11) Believe me that I in the Father,       and the Father in me: “or else” believe me for the very works sake.       Thomas believed THE WORK of God the Father!       To wit, that  God was in Christ,  reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)       Thomas said My Lord and my God  because Thomas finally believed       what Jesus told Philip: to believe for THE VERY WORKS SAKE! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

2 cor 5.19 has nothing to do with john 20.28

you are really a grasshopper LOL

this is the meaning of 2 cor 5.19

2 Corinthians 5:19

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

19 God was bringing the world back to himself through Christ. He did not hold people's sins against them. God has trusted us with the message that people may be brought back to him.

while john 20.28 says that Christ is LORD and GOD.

study hard boy! LOL

[Ed J]

Hi Jammin,

You don't believe the meaning of 2 cor 5.19?     …that God was “IN” Christ?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,16:10)

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,12:51) Hi Jammin, 2 Cor 5:19 spells out clearly why Thomas said what he said…       Thomas said: unless I see and touch I will not believe.       Jesus said to Philip: (John 14:11) Believe me that I in the Father,       and the Father in me: “or else” believe me for the very works sake.       Thomas believed THE WORK of God the Father!       To wit, that  God was in Christ,  reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)       Thomas said My Lord and my God  because Thomas finally believed       what Jesus told Philip: to believe for THE VERY WORKS SAKE! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Wakeup, Would you please comment on this post? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDj.

It is not wrong to call Jesus God,because we worship him dont we,we bow down to him dont we.
In heb1:8.9.God the father calls him God,but he also says;EVEN –THY GOD– HATH ANOINTED THEE WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE THY FELLOWS.(the father is his God)

So Jesus is God, because he is worshipped by us and by angels,but he is not the father.
Jesus is in subjection to his father,and so is the holy spirit in subjection to Jesus.God is above all.

But at the same time Jesus is the word that came out of Gods mouth,And the spirit of truth contains in the word.(the sugar in the drink) so to speak.
So what is the conclusion? That God is one;there is none beside him,there is no saviour beside him.

wakeup.

[Ed J]

Hi Wakeup,

Thanks for your input!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Jammin;

You are not addressing that:

1) Jesus has the same God and Father as his brothers; and that God and Father is Yawheh.

2) That human beings are Jesus' brothers.

3) That Jehovah dwells in Jesus through the Spirit and Jesus dwells in Jehovah through the same Spirit.

4) That there are many lords and many gods; both in heaven and on earth; yet to us there is one God; who is Jehovah.

These four facts and more mean that your argument about Thomas' words is deceptive.  Come out of her and test what you have been taught to believe.

[jammin]

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,21:43)

Hi Jammin, You don't believe the meaning of 2 cor 5.19?     …that God was “IN” Christ? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

i believe that verse.
i dont believe your illusion

read well the context boy. i already posted the meaning of the verse. if you dont believe that, then make your own bible LOL

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ May 31 2012,02:43)

Jammin; You are not addressing that: 1) Jesus has the same God and Father as his brothers; and that God and Father is Yawheh. 2) That human beings are Jesus' brothers. 3) That Jehovah dwells in Jesus through the Spirit and Jesus dwells in Jehovah through the same Spirit. 4) That there are many lords and many gods; both in heaven and on earth; yet to us there is one God; who is Jehovah. These four facts and more mean that your argument about Thomas' words is deceptive.  Come out of her and test what you have been taught to believe.

1 yes. but the bible says that Christ is God and LORD john 20.28

2. yes .. bec God manifested in the flesh. that is the son and not the father. he is God by nature phil 2.6

3. so what is your point here? the bible did not say that Christ is not GOD>
what we can read is that Christ is God and LORD
he is GOD by nature.

4. the bible says one LORD and that is Christ.
so if i am going to follow your argument, the father is not LORD to you… LOL

your doctrine is so funny LOL

[Ed J]

Quote (jammin @ May 31 2012,02:49)

Quote (Ed J @ May 30 2012,21:43) Hi Jammin, You don't believe the meaning of 2 cor 5.19?     …that God was “IN” Christ? God bless Ed J i believe that verse. i dont believe your illusion read well the context boy. i already posted the meaning of the verse. if you dont believe that, then make your own bible LOL

Hi Jammin,

2 Cor. 5.19 says:  “God was IN Christ?”  do you doubt this?     …perhaps you need to study Greek a bit more?

2Cor.5:19 ως οτι θεος ην εν χριστω κοσμον καταλλασσων εαυτω μη λογιζομενος
αυτοις τα παραπτωματα αυτων και θεμενος εν ημιν τον λογον της καταλλαγης

5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing
their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Wakeup;

Have you considered the possibility that worship is a poor translation?

“proskuneó”

Quote

4352 proskynéō (from 4314 /prós, “towards” and kyneo, “to kiss”) – properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; to worship, ready “to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees” (DNTT); to “do obeisance” (BAGD).

The KJV uses “worship” as prostrating before a superior; as can seen from these words:

1 Chronicles 29:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

Here is my source.

[Author]

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