- This topic has 25,959 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 3 days, 20 hours ago by
.
- Posts
Carmel……I have always said that, I fully understand that if you reject Jesus you are rejecting the one who sent him. But that does not make Jesus equal to God the Father , who he preached about and also obeyed even unto death, now does it?
I do not now or ever have , spoken against Jesus, in fact I preach exactly what he preached. The hundreds of direct quotations I have given you are from his mouth (not mine).
peace and love to you and yours Carmel……..gene
Enough fanciful speculations about the Son of God having a personal throne in the heavenlies prior to his conception. Leave it to the lost and confused.
Enough fanciful speculations about the Son of God having a personal throne in the heavenlies prior to his conception. Leave it to the lost and confused.
Me
The Son of God has a personal throne but with God because he conquered:
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me 👉in my throne, even as👉 I also overcame, and am set down👉 with my Father in his throne.👈
Rev.3:21
…..
Incarnation=
…was made flesh(John1:14)
👇
But made himself of no reputation, and
1) took upon him the form of a servant, 👉and was made in the likeness of men:👈
👉And being found in fashion as a man,
👉2) he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
🙏
Hi Berean,
41 These things said Isaiah, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
The glory that Isaiah saw is that which he spoke of to which we can read in the book of Isaiah. YHVH even told Isaiah of a glory that He would not give to another and the context of “another” is in regards to “the people” whom YHVH had created when He stretched forth the earth and all that cometh out of it, giving man breath and a spirit to walk therein.
Jesus has glory in more ways than one and we can read from Isaiah the glories that he saw.
Let’s first read again what John says,
John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Jesus was anointed of the Spirit and with power and he manifested that glory through performing miracles, turning water into wine, healing the blind, raising Lazarus from the dead. Isaiah prophesied of this glory, the glory of a man being anointed of the Spirit and with power speaking of it in chapters 11, 42 and 61, to which Jesus himself quoted concerning himself that we read of in Luke 4.
John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.
Jesus manifested his glory performing miracles, having the glory of one anointed of the Spirit and with power, but some did not believe in him and John speaks to this as prophecy from Isaiah fulfilled, where he quotes Isaiah 53.
-Isaiah prophesied of Jesus’s glory, the glory of one anointed of the Spirit and with power and John speaks to that glory how it was manifested by the miracles Jesus performed.
-Isaiah prophesied that people would not believe and John speaks to this fulfillment.
-Isaiah speaking of this unbelief speaks of him being crucified and him receiving a portion with the great and dividing the spoil with the strong.
Isaiah 53:11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Berean, Jesus is a righteous servant as a man who has God’s Spirit living in him.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins…9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
What do we read prior in John 12,
John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Berean, THIS GLORY unto this Son of Man, was God’s WORD even before the world began and Jesus knew of it and he went to the cross believing in it.
John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.
Berean, God is glorified in Jesus through God’s Spirit living in him whereby Jesus did God’s work in God’s name and God glorifies Jesus a Son of Man, not a pre-existing god, which was promised (His Word) before the world began.
Isaiah as well speaks to this glory,
Isaiah 49: 1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. 4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. 5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. 10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
Berean, Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus as God’s servant NOT FROM a pre-existence, but FROM a calling from the womb. This servant’s mouth is made like a sharp sword through God’s Spirit living in him.
He was formed from the womb to be a servant where he would be called to righteousness and God would hold his hand and keep him to be for a light to both Israel and Gentiles. This man will be glorious in the eyes of the our One True God YHVH as he establishes peace upon the whole earth, being the man ordained of God to judge (Acts 17) in righteousness through God’s Spirit that dwells in him.
Matthew 16: 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
God is not returning in God’s glory, a man is returning who has God’s glorious Spirit living in him (the Spirit that is in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and by that Spirit he will judge righteously and give reward where the earth will be at peace, the peoples will not hunger or thirst. Righteousness is according to being born of God, having God’s Seed remain in you and those that are led by that Spirit are thus called the Sons of God. Jesus was indeed the only mortal man begotten of God’s Spirit filled with power, filled with grace and truth where people beheld his glory as he manifested that glory performing miracles and speaking God’s truth. Only one man was chosen from among the people being given the glory to bring forth salvation a new heaven and earth that is filled with the knowledge of our one true God YHVH.
Isaiah saw this glory in this Son of Man and knew it had been declared from the beginning.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Your doctrine Berean is just plain awful, it doesn’t add up with the sum of scripture at all.
Jesus is of the people whom God created.
Jesus is the man of God’s Word that God declared Himself from the beginning.
The Son of Man, Jesus, knew well the words of God from the prophet Isaiah and he had faith in them as he went to the cross and we read of him professing that faith in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me (the Son of Man) with thine own self with the glory which I (the Son of Man) had with (para/OF) thee before the world was.
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
God’s word before the world began was that of a Son of Man standing at God’s right hand, a firstborn overall of God’s new heaven and earth. He is the image of the Father and we are promised to be made into the image of the Son, where those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, where God’s Spirit living in us bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God, being heirs of God and joint heirs with our anointed Jesus of Nazareth, who received the Spirit of God according to a promise when he was raised from the dead as a firstborn of many brethren. We are promised that same Spirit wherein we are caused to walk in all of God’s ways. Promised to be born of the Spirit, when the Son of Man returns in the glory of our Father.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Jodi
Isaiah had a vision of the Divine Son of God in his glorious manifestation.
John 12
These things said Esaias, when he saw 👉his glory, and spake of him.(the divine Son of God)Already before the foundation of the world the Son of God shared the glory of God his Father.
👇
John 17
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.🙏
Remember Berean,
God is one.
There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.
Very basic scriptural truth.
Hi Berean,
You have got yourself into a tricky spot and find your words contradict what is written.
Stop and reassess your position rather that stubbornly blocking your ears.
Hi Berean,
You would need to do more to convince me as what you are saying I see is actually against direct scripture.
John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
There is no Son going back to glory, there is a Son of Man being glorified to which Stephen saw that Son of Man at God’s right hand in the heavens, where he saw the glory of God and this Son of Man.
Berean, truth is not what you say it is, it is what scripture says, the Son of Man should be glorified, the Son of Man in glory in the heavens sitting at God’s right hand, and the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory.
This Son of Man is God’s Son according to scripture.
Paul gives us the image of the Son, the image that God predestined others to be made into that he might be a firstborn among many brethren. That image is one who is led by the Spirit of God.
1 Chronicles teaches us that God would become a Father unto a son of David and that He would settle him into His House and His kingdom forever. That is a promise unto a man of eternal life.
How is it that God exactly would become a Father unto a promised son of David and does it have anything to do also with him being able to be settled into God’s kingdom? The anointed man Jesus tells us, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Jesus was indeed born of water and of the Spirit and Stephen declared through the Holy Spirit that he saw the Son of Man sitting at God’s right hand in glory having been settled in God’s house in His kingdom just as God had promised unto a son of David and just as Jesus spoke in John 3.
There is more,
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth.
John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Isaiah 42 speaks of a son of Jesse, a Son of David receiving God’s Spirit and being called to righteousness. Isaiah 11 speaks of this Son of Man receiving God’s Spirit and by such he is a righteous judge.
Romans 5: 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many…18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
VERY CLEAR, a man was promised to receive God’s Spirit being called to righteousness, we read that righteousness is to be born of God, we read that the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth and we read that Jesus was filled with that Spirit without measure. We read, ” Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost and I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. Jesus is declared God’s Son according to him having been born of the Spirit. When God promised that he would be a Father unto a Son of David, such was a promise of begetting him of His Spirit and having that Seed remain in him where he would be obedient, where he would be the one man where through his righteousness caused by being born of the Spirit, we would receive the free gift. This one man was in fact declared by God from the beginning, why we read that all things that YHVH Himself had created He did so by reason of and for him, this is why we read that this man is he who is before all things and in him all things consist. This man executes YHVH our heavenly Father’s will, he executes Gods purpose for why YHVH had made heaven and earth and all things therein in the first place.
this aligns well with,
45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
From the beginning, before the world even was, YHVH formed the earth to be inhabited, to be inhabited by the son of David, whom God promised He would be a Father to, whom God promised He would give His Spirit to and settle him into His kingdom, giving him an eternal throne and making him a firstborn overall of the Eternal Creation and that of a firstborn of many brethren.
@ Nick
And what do you do with the simple and basic verses that I keep giving
JOHN 1
PHIL.2JESUS IS OF DIVINE ORIGIN AND HE WAS MADE FLESH (INCARNATION). THIS IS THE TRUTH.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS A FALSE INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD WHICH YOU PROMOTE.
YOU HAVEN’T PROVE ANYTHING TO ME SO FAR THAT YOU STAND IN THE TRUTH, NEITHER JODI, NOR GENE.
SO PLEASE REVIEW YOUR POSITION BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.🙏
Hi Berean,
You believe you have found contradictions in scripture.?
Sorry but they do not exist.
Unspiritual folk misread spiritual words.
@Gene,
You: “But what you don’t you see, is that is exactly what Jesus did also, he turns us to God the Father in every thing he said and did. His whole life was for that very purpose.”
Me: Unfortunately, it’s not what I don’t see; it’s was I do see. If Jesus was an “example” for us and how we are to go to God; why does Jesus say the only way to God is through him?
You still haven’t explained Mark 4:12 and why Jesus spoke in parables so the people wouldn’t understand, so they wouldn’t return, so they wouldn’t be forgiven. Jesus explicitly said he wasn’t speaking to them plainly so they wouldn’t be forgiven. Explain and justify this! Who is this man called Jesus and what exactly was his intent?
Hi DT,
You judge the son of God for perceived unfairness?
The Son only does what the Father tells him so you judge God by your standards?
It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God but maybe you don’t Fear Him either?
Hi DT,
The Lord Jesus lives in his brothers so men have that access through any who live in him.
Rebirth into him is possible by water and the Spirit and that enables access to his Father too.
@ Nick
You believe you have found contradictions in scripture.?
Sorry but they do not exist.
Unspiritual folk misread spiritual words.
Me
There is no contradiction in THE WORD OF GOD, BUT IGNORANT PEOPLE WHO PERSIST NOT TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ASKED THEM….THEY BELIEVE THEMSELVES SPIRITUAL, HAVING THE SPIRIT….BUT IS THIS REALLY THE CASE?
🙏
Hi Berean,
Scripture is spiritual and needs the Spirit to grasp it.
Literalism falls short and logic is an inappropriate tool to use.
Hi Berean,
Perhaps try your tools of understanding to this scripture.
“unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood you will not have life in you”
Dt you said …Me: Unfortunately, it’s not what I don’t see; it’s was I do see. If Jesus was an “example” for us and how we are to go to God; why does Jesus say the only way to God is through him?
Because his relationship with God the Father is the exact same “way” we must approach and live with the God the Father. He showed us all “HOW” to have the right relationship with the Father, and it is the exact same as his is and was, a complete “Faith” And ” LOVE”, Based relationship, even to the point of death if required .
DT, has your “new” view points, now turned you against Jesus himself brother?
Very sorry to see that happening to you, We simply can not enter into life eternal without doing it the exact same way Jesus and his life has shown us.peace and love to you and your Desire Truth……….gene
Hi
When men are born on this earth, are they called saints?
The answer is no.
They can become one if they take the holy path,
BUT FOR JESUS, the angel said to Mary:
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also👉 that holy thing 👈which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus is not someone who needed God’s salvation like us BECAUSE HE IS GOD’S SALVATION… CERTAINLY HE HAD TO FIGHT BY FAITH AND DEFEAT THE ENEMY.When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.
[11] And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and 👉worshipped him:👈 and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.Are we wordhiped at birth?
Is Jesus still just an ordinary man?
Hi Berean,
Indeed the angels knew the future role of the man who was to become the anointed one. Born of woman and born under the law the arrival of Jesus was part of the plan. It was exciting for them to see that plan of God being fulfilled.
We cannot follow God or a god.
We can follow a man into his death and resurrection and into the rest God arranged. So much easier for us than for our Master.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
