- This topic has 25,891 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 3 hours, 16 minutes ago by
.
- Posts
@Gene,
You are not commenting on the rest of the verse; God “crushed” him “to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution” as in a “guilt offering.” You can’t leave that off, because then we’re “cherry picking” the words to make them fit an ideology. If the servant was to offer himself as a “guilt (asham) offering”, that means the servant didn’t know he commented a sin or what sin he committed. AND “guilt offerings” were done by the individual committing the sin and NOT for taking responsibility for someone else sin! Words have meanings, and those meanings must be applied in the context they have been written.
Have you looked into anything I have written or are you denying what I have said because it doesn’t align to a personally held belief system?
Hi Desiretruth,
I Corinthians 15:3-4 are the verses in question; Paul stated “according to scripture” (meaning this is in the OT) and it’s the claim “the Messiah dying for the sins of mankind” and “being buried and raised on the third day.” I am asking for the verses in the OT that support Paul’s statement.
If what Paul states isn’t in the OT, we have a problem.
Me: Here is
1Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all,
which I also received:
how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures: 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures:
I asked you:
FROM WHOM PAUL RECEIVED WHAT HE DELIVERED?
Paul CONFIRMED above that what he delivered,
HE ALSO RECEIVED!
I ASK YOU AGAIN:
WHO FURNISHED PAUL WITH WHAT HE DELIVERED AND SAID PRECISELY
how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures: 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures?
I REPEAT: THE ABOVE DIDN’T ORIGINATE FROM PAUL BUT FROM SOMEONE ELSE!
WHO IS THIS SOMEONE ELSE?
Now, I recall your statement back on page 1217 #943782
You: There’s that pesky “according to scripture” statement from Paul.
Now find it in the old testament!
WHAT CONVINCED YOU THAT PAUL REFERRED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?
WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THE GOSPELS, OR MORE PRECISELY THE CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES, MOST PROBABLY LUKE, WAS NOT AT LEAST PRODUCED BEFORE PAULS’ DEATH BUT NOT YET PUBLICIZED, AND PARTICULARLY PAUL ANTICIPATED HISTORY AND CALLED IT SCRIPTURES?
Now I leave you to PONDER on the SCRIPTURES hereunder:
Galatians 1:11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was
preached by me is not according to man.
12 For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it;
but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
2Corinthians 12: If I must glory (it is not expedient indeed):
but I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth): 4That he was caught up into paradise,
and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter.
In what sense “It is NOT GRANTED TO MAN, PAUL,
TO UTTER?”
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
YOU: WHAT CONVINCED YOU THAT PAUL REFERRED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?
ME The only scripture available to them in the 1st century was the tanach, the Jewish writings that we today call the “old testament.” What we call the “new testament” didn’t get canonized and become the “new testament” for almost 400 years after Jesus, thus wasn’t “scripture” to Paul. So when Paul states “according to scripture” or when “as it is written” is used in the “new testament”, it is speaking of the “old testament.” That is how I’m “convinced” Paul is speaking about the “old testament.” Nothing spiritual, nothing divine to be found here; just simple words put into context as they were written. With this understanding, find what Paul stated in the OT.
Now explain this:
John 3:14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;”
Num 21:9 “Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.”
II King 18:14 “He (Hezekiah) removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.”
Jesus states he must be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness that Moses made so the people could look upon it and be healed if they had been bitten by a snake. Then under king Hezekiah this bronze snake is destroyed because the people of Israel had created an idol and were burning incense to it. This seems to be an odd comparison for Jesus to make concerning himself when the object was destroyed because of idol worship. Am I only suppose to look at the “on a pole” portion of the story and ignore the rest? I have no doubts one will be able to explain this away; however, what can’t be ignored is the comparison Jesus used was eventually destroyed because of idol worship, worship of an object that took the focus off the one true God, the creator of heaven and earth.
@ désire Truth
The brazen serpent had no virtue IN ITSELF, BUT IT WAS WHAT IT REPRESENTED THAT HAD THE POWER TO SAVE.
Thereafter Hezekiah had it destroyed BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HAD MADE IT AN OBJECT OF IDOLATRY, NOT HAVING UNDERSTANDED WHAT IT MEANS.
Again this brazen serpent had no virtue in itself, but it was, I believe, WHAT IT REPRESENTED THAT HAD.
In fact, he represented the crucified Christ who was made sin so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.(2Cor.5:21)Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us-for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree, –
👇
Deuteronomy 21
22 If a man is put to death who has committed a crime worthy of death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not lie on the tree overnight; but you will bury him the same day, 👉 because he who is hanged is an object of curse with God, 👈 and you will not defile the land which the Eternal, your God, gives you for inheritance.🙏
Desire Truth…….Who was Jesus “obeying”, When he poured out his soul to death”? Was it not God himself?, , so knowing that , then it becomes clear that Jesus in “OBEDIENCE” to the “Will”, of God the Father, if you know that, then it is also clear that, it was God the Father who suffered him to do that, and made his soul a sacrifice . Simple and very clear Supported by many scriptures,……..”GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD , THAT HE “GAVE “. HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Gave him for what? , to death, because of the sin and iniquities of us all, to “demonstrate ” to us all, the obedience required to be an actual Son of God, I say again, not to do it all, in place of us having to do it, as false “Christianity” teaches, but to “DEMONSTRATE ” to us all, what it requires for us all, to become true, Sons of God.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene
You still cannot ignore the fact that what Jesus compared himself to was destroyed because it was made into an idle. So for you it is just the “pole” that matters.
HOWEVER!!!! You have failed to respond to what I said to you concerning Acts 8. What is your response to the blatant manipulation of the OT? This only one example, I can give you many. I also asked how many times can the OT be manipulated to fit the NT narrative before it’s no longer “the inspired word of God”?
Me: WHAT CONVINCED YOU THAT PAUL REFERRED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?
You: The only SCRIPTURE available to them in the 1st century was the tanach, the Jewish writings that we today call the “old testament.”
Me: Paul used the word “SCRIPTURE”.
It is not enough proof that he was definitely referring to the Old Testament!
Since the word SCRIPTURE is used, it refers to something written. There is no example of oral tradition being called Scripture.
The word Scripture, when used in the New Testament, always refers to something written.
THUS Paul referred to something WRITTEN NOT TO THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Now, Read again what I posted please:
Me: Here is
1Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all,
which I also received:
how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures: 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures:
I asked you:
FROM WHOM PAUL RECEIVED WHAT HE DELIVERED?
Paul CONFIRMED above that what he delivered,
HE ALSO RECEIVED!
I ASK YOU AGAIN:
WHO FURNISHED PAUL WITH WHAT HE DELIVERED AND SAID PRECISELY
how that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures: 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures?
I REPEAT: THE ABOVE DIDN’T ORIGINATE FROM PAUL BUT FROM SOMEONE ELSE!
WHO IS THIS SOMEONE ELSE?
AGAIN:
I leave you to PONDER on the SCRIPTURES hereunder:
Galatians 1:11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was
preached by me is not according to man.
12 For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it;
but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
2Corinthians 12: If I must glory (it is not expedient indeed):
but I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth): 4That he was caught up into paradise,
and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter.
In what sense “It is NOT GRANTED TO MAN, PAUL,
TO UTTER?”
You: Now explain this:
John 3:14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;”
Num 21:9 “Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.”
II King 18:14 “He (Hezekiah) removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.”
Jesus states he must be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness that Moses made so the people could look upon it and be healed if they had been bitten by a snake. Then under king Hezekiah this bronze snake is destroyed because the people of Israel had created an idol and were burning incense to it.
This seems to be an odd comparison for Jesus to make concerning himself when the object was destroyed because of idol worship
Me: Go back to page 1222, and read hereunder what I posted, which it seems quite clear to me that you completely IGNORED!
Obviously, it is not within your understanding in every respect!
Isaiah 42:16 And I will lead the blind into
THE WAY WHICH THEY KNOW NOT:
WHO ARE THE BLIND?
ISRAEL, THE GENTILES, or BOTH?
How will God LEADS THEM into the way WHICH THEY KNOW NOT?
and in the paths
WHICH THEY WERE IGNORANT OF I WILL MAKE THEM WALK:
The same with the above, HOW GOD MAKES THEM WALK THE PATHS WHICH THEY
WERE IGNORANT OF? Here it comes:
I WILL MAKE DARKNESS LIGHT
BEFORE THEM,and crooked things straight:
these things have I done to them, and have not forsaken them.NOW WHAT IF I TELL YOU THAT THE ABOVE ESPECIALLY
“I WILL MAKE DARKNESS LIGHT”
IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS’ GLORY ON HIS DEATH,
WHERE DARKNESS WAS JESUS. Isaiah 53:9,
IN FRONT OF THE GENTILES!
YOU; This seems to be an odd comparison for Jesus
to make concerning himself
when the object was destroyed
because of idol worship
Me: Here it comes again to ponder:
NOW WHAT IF I TELL YOU THAT THE ABOVE ESPECIALLY
“I WILL MAKE DARKNESS LIGHT”
IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS’ GLORY ON HIS DEATH,
WHERE DARKNESS WAS JESUS. Isaiah 53:9,
I will make it AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL TO YOU AND ASK YOU!
FOR YOU, CARNALLY MINDED PERSON, IN EVERY RESPECT:
IS IT STILL ODD FOR JESUS TO COMPARE HIMSELF WITH
SOMETHING WHICH WAS DESTROYED!
ANOTHER QUESTION!
WHO IN ACTUAL FACT WAS DESTROYED ON THE CROSS!
THE SERPENT SATAN?
JESUS’BODY? OR
BOTH JESUS’BODY AND SATAN PRECISELY LOCKED WITHIN JESUS’BODY!
BOTH DARKNESS and
THE SERPENT!
WHILE JESUS WAS IN HIS FULL GLORY AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN! John13:31,32,
You: Am I only suppose to look at the “on a pole” portion of the story
and ignore the rest?
Me: YOU DON’T EVEN UNDERSTAND
The “ON A POLE” PORTION
HOW ON EARTH WOULD YOU BE IN THE POSITION TO UNDERSTAND THE
REST?
NEVER MIND IGNORE!
I have no doubts one will be able to explain this away; however, what can’t be ignored is the comparison Jesus used was eventually destroyed
2Corinthians 12:9 And he said to me:
My grace is sufficient for thee;
for power is made perfect in infirmity.
Gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10For which cause I please myself in my infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ.
For when I am weak, then am I powerful.
You: because of idol worship, worship of an object that took the focus off
the one true God, the creator of heaven and earth.
Me: NOW WHAT WAS THE FOCUS WHEN JESUS WAS DEAD ON THE
POLE?
I TELL YOU AGAIN WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT
IT’S YOUR PIGEON!
THE FOCUS WAS ON
THE ONLY TRUE GODMAN ON EARTH,
THE RECREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH,
AND THE FATHER OF IT! ATTENTION PLEASE:
Johnn20:17Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me,
for I am not yet ascended to (THE GLORY OF) my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to
(THE GLORY OF) my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God.
BY HIS OWN BLOOD FOR THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER!
AS THE FATHER WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO DIE!
NO JESUS NO GOD!
NO GOD NO JESUS!
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me by my Father;
and no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is,
but the Son, and to whom the Son will reveal him.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@Gene,
The verse doesn’t say “when” he poured…; it says “because” he poured. This conjunction ties into the first part of the verse, “Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong” BECAUSE “he poured out his soul.” What was given Jesus from the many and what did Jesus divide with the strong? If we are honest, nothing. So how can this be referring to Jesus?
Verse 12 is still contingent on what was said in verse 10, if the servant offers his soul as a guilt (asham) offering and “because” he does, the “spoils” are given him. You keep asking me questions, but not answering mine; you keep moving this goal post in what I believe is the hope that somehow I will starting seeing what I used to believe. I used to believe as you until I started studying the words that are written. I believed as you because this is what I was told was truth and why would I think the source of this would lie?
Your writing format is to difficult to follow and I don’t have time to read one liners and decipher what you’re trying to say, try paragraph format, it’s how the rest of the world actually writes.
YOU: Paul used the word “SCRIPTURE”.
It is not enough proof that he was definitely referring to the Old Testament!
Since the word SCRIPTURE is used, it refers to something written. There is no example of oral tradition being called Scripture.
The word Scripture, when used in the New Testament, always refers to something written.
THUS Paul referred to something WRITTEN NOT TO THE OLD TESTAMENT.
ME: The Greek for scripture is “graphe”
It’s usage is: (a) a writing, (b) a passage of scripture; plural: the scriptures.
Strong’s word study:
*1124 graphḗ – properly, writing. 1124 (graphḗ) is used 51 times in the NT – always of holy Scripture, i.e. the inspired, inerrant writings of the Bible (the 66 books of Scripture, 39 in Hebrew, 27 in Greek).
*The NT generally uses 1124 (graphḗ) for the Hebrew Scriptures (the OT)
So if “graphe” is used to refer to the Hebrew Scripture and the NT didn’t exist at the time of Paul’s writing; then Paul was explicitly referring to what was written in the OT. Oh wait, “graphe” is “generally used” to refer to the OT; this time what Paul is writing he’s not referring to the OT but to one of his previous writing. So where is this other writing that is suppose to be “prophesying” about the messiah and how can it be substantiated? Try again!
Sounds like you’re having difficultly finding in the OT what Paul claimed to be written of the Messiah, so you are trying your hardest to justify what was written. You can keep you mysticism or whatever you call it; because it definitely isn’t “from above.”
I skimmed the rest of what you wrote; you need to read Isa 42:10-17 and put verse 16 into context, all that needs to be said on that subject. Then you said something about Satan being locked in Jesus’s body and about spit my drink at my computer screen. Then “godman” came up again (no such thing in scripture) and I checked out.
Now I am really curious about what faith you identify with, because most of what you are saying is new to me and sounds a little cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
Hi to a all
Here is a commentary on “The Messiah’s work and reward.”
God bless
Isaiah 53
(12) The Messiah’s work and reward.
Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.a. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong: The Messiah’s glorious work will be rewarded. With the image of dividing the spoil after a victorious battle, we see that the Messiah ultimately triumphs.
i. Paul described this ultimate triumph in Philippians 2:10-11: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. That is a glorious reward.
ii. “It is a strange fact that I am going to declare, but it is not less true than strange: according to our text the extraordinary glories of Christ, as Saviour, have all been earned by his connection with human sin. He has gotten his most illustrious splendour, his brightest jewels, his divinest crowns, out of coming into contact with this poor fallen race.” (Spurgeon)
iii. In the end, the sufferings and humiliation of Jesus only bring Him more glory and majesty! “I do see that out of this dunghill of sin Christ has brought this diamond of his glory by our salvation. If there had been no sinners, there could not have been a Saviour. If no sin, no pouring out of the soul unto death; and if no pouring out of the soul unto death, no dividing a portion with the great. If there had been no guilt, there had been no act of expiation. In the wondrous act of expiation by our great Substitute, the Godhead is more gloriously revealed than in all the creations and providences of the divine power and wisdom.” (Spurgeon)
iii. In the end, the sufferings and humiliation of Jesus only bring Him more glory and majesty! “I do see that out of this dunghill of sin Christ has brought this diamond of his glory by our salvation. If there had been no sinners, there could not have been a Saviour. If no sin, no pouring out of the soul unto death; and if no pouring out of the soul unto death, no dividing a portion with the great. If there had been no guilt, there had been no act of expiation. In the wondrous act of expiation by our great Substitute, the Godhead is more gloriously revealed than in all the creations and providences of the divine power and wisdom.” (Spurgeon)
iv. Who does the Messiah divide the spoil with? With the strong; those strong in Him. We can share in the spoil of Jesus’ victory! If children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:17)
b. Because He poured out His soul unto death: This speaks of the totality of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Poured out means that it was all gone. There was nothing left, nothing more He could give.
i. “‘He hath poured out his soul unto death.’ I will say no more about it, except that you see how complete it was. Jesus gave poor sinners everything. His every faculty was laid out for them. To his last rag he was stripped upon the cross. No part of his body or of his soul was kept back from being made a sacrifice. The last drop, as I said before, was poured out till the cup was drained. He made no reserve: he kept not back even his innermost self: ‘He hath poured out his soul unto death.’” (Spurgeon)
c. He was numbered with the transgressors: Jesus could never become a sinner; He could never be a transgressor Himself. Yet willingly, loving, He was numbered with the transgressors. Is there a roll call taken for transgressors? Jesus says, “Put My name down with them.” We would be shocked if a godly woman looked at a list of prostitutes and said, “Put my name down among them.” Or what if a godly man looked at a list of murderers and said, “Number me among them.” But that is what Jesus did for us, only to an even greater degree.
d. He bore the sin of many: Over and over again, the prophet emphasizes the point. The Servant of the LORD, the Messiah, suffers on behalf of and in the place of guilty sinners.
e. And made intercession for the transgressors: We know that presently, Jesus has a ministry of intercession (Hebrews 7:25). But Hebrews 7:25 speaks of intercession for the saints. This passage probably refers to Jesus’ prayers on the cross itself.
i. This means the work of the Messiah is made available to transgressors. It is when we see ourselves as transgressors that we can reach out and receive His salvation.
🙏
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Jesus came for sinners so we would be wise to number ourselves among them.
It is a trustworthy saying that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Yet for this reason I found mercy so that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate his perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in him for eternal life.
it is a level playing field and not even the apostles have an advantage over you and I.
Do not die in your sins but find safety in him.
Men focus on men.
But the aim of God is to show what amazin things He can work through men when He is allowed to indwell their vessels and use them.
focus folks it is all about Him, not the human vessels.
Men of Israel, listen to these words, Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through him in your midst just as you yourselves know-
even the Master.
Nick…….Amen brother. Jesus “demonstrated” to all humanity what it takes to please God the Father, we must all become exactly like him, and with the Spirit of God in us we all can become exactly the same as Jesus himself is, just as he said, “whosoever overcomes even as I have, I will grant to set with me in my kingdom, even as I have overcome and am sit down in my Fathers kingdom.” And again….John 4:17…..” Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment : because as he is, “SO ARE WE”, in this world”.
THE REQUIREMENT IS THE SAME WITH US AS IT WAS WITH JESUS OUR LORD. we must all come to the point of putting our “Will’s” to death and do the Will of God the Father, the same as Jesus did.
peace and love to you and yours Nick………gene
Desire Truth…….Ok, I used the word when, because it was a “prophesied” event, but changing it doesn’t change anything, there is not one scholar that I know of that doesn’t think it was not a prophesied event. Need proof?
Isa 53:2…… “for he shall” , and “when he shall see him”
Isa 53:10…..”when” thou shall make his Soul” , “he “shall” see, “he “shall” prolong”, “and the pleasure of the LORD “shall” prosper, ”
All these are speaking of future events and more are, throughout the the verses, as I said Desire Truth, there is absolutely no one, that I know of, that doesn’t think Isaiah 53 is not speaking in a futuristic sense, no one ! , Don’t let anyone fool you that scripture is not talking about the nation of Israel or the kingdom of Judah, at all> IMO.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth………..gene
Yes Gene,
Jesus did the hard yards and if we follow him into rebirth of water and the Spirit as demonstrated in Acts we are joined with him in death and can know that like him we will be resurrected when he returns, or taken up alive if we have yet to taste death.,
@Gene
You still haven’t specified who is speaking where in Isa 53. KJV is one of a few versions that specify a future tense in verse 2 and I have already established the KJV is corrupt because it does change the tenses of words and thus changes the meanings of what is being conveyed; hence needs to be thrown into the trash bin of history.
You still haven’t explained verse 10, and you are correct this is in the future tense as it has yet to happen. Please tell me how the seed of Jesus prospered, how his life was prolonged, or how the will of God succeeded in his hand. All three of these blessings are linked together; they all happen together after the big “IF” of offering his soul. You still haven’t explained this “guilt (asham) offering”; aren’t we taught Jesus was sinless? Words have meanings…
I am still waiting of anyone to show me where in the OT I Cor 15:3,4 is stated. Again, have you verified anything I have written or have you simple disregarded it because it doesn’t align with what you have been told to believe? Remember, I was where you are a couple months ago and everything flipped, because I took the time to verify what I was told was truth.
Desire Truth…….You ask who was speaking here is your answer, … Heb 1:1…“God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, as in these last days spoken to us by his son ……>”
Even though the KJV does have errors in it translations , it still is considered the best over all study Bible in existence as I understand it. If you ave rejected the KJV, fine, the read the YLT, or any of the other translations out there, many translations out there most are summerly translated.
Desire Truth, The context of those scripture does not fit the Nation of Israel or the Jews at all. That is obvious , to anyone who knows the history of nation of Israel and the Jews also. So knowing that, then it is incumbent upon you to explain to us who is Isaiah 53. talking about. I don’t recall you ever telling us who it is “specifically” speaking about. Please tell us and explain to us how you reached that conclusion. You’re contradicting our assumptions, but not telling us who it is talking about then. Do you even believe it is a “prophesy”. Or not? To say we need to throw out our New Testament bibles and Just go by what is in the Old Testament is sure madness. While Paul did tell us to ‘confirm what we are told by the Old Testament, he certainly did not say that the Old Testament was superior to what he and the other Apostles were saying. He simply was say what they were hearing should aline with the Old Testament scriptures. Not that every thing they were hearing was wrong.What Mark, Matthew, Luke and John , Peter , James, And Paul wrote, most certainly matches what is written in the Old Testament scriptures, as far as I am concerned.
To me brother , it like you’re throwing out the baby with the wash. Don’t let those Jewish scholars ( who’s decedents killed our Lord Jesus), throw you off brother, they do not want to bare the guilt of there own words, “let his blood be upon us and our children”.
Peace and love to you and yours Desire truth………gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
