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Hi Jodi,
Made Flesh= The only begotten Son existing in the form of God emptied himself to come down to earth
finding himself in the uterus of Mary being made into a human of flesh.
Me: Abandon YOUR carnal-minded reasoning Jodi, BE SERIOUS, respect God’s SPIRITUAL tasks, and at least produce
THE PRECISE SCRIPTURE PLEASE!
When will you learn that as much as humans of FLESH produce their children ONLY by physical means, satanic of earth, especially today, I mean despite using machines still need the human sperm and ovum, God who is a spirit, also produces His children ONLY by spiritual means, to be clear; God doesn’t need anything satanic of earth. Well asserted by Jesus ‘own words in
John14:30 I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world cometh,
and in ME he hath not anything.
despite they are born also in THE FLESH OF HUMANS OF EARTH, without the use of the sperm and the ovum, never mind the uterus of a mortal woman, just to mention a few, like in the case of Abel, Isaac, Melchizedek, John the Baptist, and the most vital His only begotten of the Father, Hebrews 10:5 in the first-ever beginning before anything was ever created, as
THE SON OF MAN!
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man who is in heaven.
READ AGAIN Jodi:
but he, THE MAN, that descended from heaven,
the Son of man WHO IS in heaven.
Get this straight into your carnal-minded mentality with every respect, that
Flesh counts for nothing when it comes to God’s own work,
only His spirit AS A SUBSTANCE gives life/existence to all His work,
even when it is physically manifested on this tangible satanic planet.
Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared to him in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day. 2And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near him: and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground. 3And he said: Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant: 4But I will fetch a little water, and wash ye your feet, and rest ye under the tree. 5And I will set a morsel of bread, and strengthen ye your heart, afterwards you shall pass on: for therefore are you come aside to your servant. And they said: Do as thou hast spoken. 6Abraham made haste into the tent to Sera, and said to her: Make haste, temper together three measures of flour, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7And he himself ran to the herd, and took from thence a calf very tender and very good, and gave it to a young man: who made haste and boiled it. 8He took also butter and milk, and the calf which he had boiled, and set before them: but he stood by them under the tree.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Good Afternoon Berean,
I’d like to point out that most Christians with the same or similar beliefs as you and those also with very different beliefs, feel the very same way you do. Seeking biblical truth and a relationship with God does become very personal.
I am 46 years old and unlike you and others, my beliefs are not set in stone, as I put scripture above my own current understanding. A change in my belief does not call into question the validity of my previous relationship and walk with God. I have argued in the past a particular belief to later be humbled realizing I was in error and it only served to strengthen my relationship with God and I have mentally prepared myself to be humbled again as I journey forward to test all things.
I am prepared to stand corrected and I am on this forum to test my understanding with those of others and see who is providing the best scriptural support to their belief. The best scriptural support is going to be the closest to the truth, that’s what we’ve got to work with, as anyone sane or a total lunatic can say the Spirit of God is upon them giving them personally the true understanding and then argue they are right.
Hi Berean,
Concerning verse 1:17 of Colossians that you previously provided,
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself;
This also aligns perfectly with other passages outside of Colossians 1. From the beginning all things were made for the Son of Man to inherit and rule over, God promised a son of David to be a king of kings. Additionally it’s a given scriptural truth that YHVH planned and created all things through knowing that by one man’s righteousness, by one man’s obedience, all things would be reconciled unto YHVH, and thus all things consist by reason of this one anointed man, without him nothing would have been made that was made. The below passage speaks to this as well.
2 Timothy 1: 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
YOU:
THE NEW TESTAMENT IS HERE TO ILLUMINATE THE OLD.
JUST AS THE SUN IS THE SOURCE OF LIGHT FOR THE MOON, SO THE NEW TESTAMENT IS THE SOURCE OF LIGHT THAT ILLUMINATES THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE OF CHRIST WHO IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD:
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.(John 8:12)ME:
As we are given from the prophet Isaiah in 11, 42 and 61, a Son of Man is given God’s Spirit where it is an anointing as this man is set-apart through that Spirit upon him to be SENT out into the world to fulfill God’ will, God’s purpose for having made all thing in the first place. This is also spoken of as this man being CALLED TO RIGHTEOUSNESSS for him to be for a LIGHT unto the world where he would be sent into the world to preach the truth, he would be sent to open the eyes of the blind, he would be sent to deliver prisoners who sit in darkness.
Can you acknowledge Berean, that according to scripture the man Jesus is a LIGHT because he was set-apart by God having been called to righteousness for to be a LIGHT?
He had received the Spirit not by measure to be a LIGHT, as the fruit of the Spirit that came to abode in him at the river Jordan was in all goodness, righteousness and truth.
Took my questions to the pastors of the church only to be told I’m wrong and even told I needed to stop studying so much…what the what!?!?…..
The one thing that has remained consistent is everyone’s doctrine is correct and the other guys is wrong. How can everyone be right and wrong at the same time. Quite the paradox isn’t it?…..
Not many truly dig into scripture today, they rely on pastors to tell them what the bible says……
I can totally relate. Sounds very similar to my experience more than 20 years ago. After that, I had a dream from God that used much symbols that I had to decipher. I did that, but one part of the dream showed the old church I use to attend and they were portrayed as crazy which is how I really think God saw them. Nice people, but weird teachings, doctrines, and habits that bore little resemblance to the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
In my experience, most denominations just want you to tow the line, pay the tithe, help out here and there, be friends with the members of the congregation, and don’t mix too much with other believers outside of the organisation. On that last point, I wrote this writing.
Hi Jodi
You
Concerning verse 1:17 of Colossians that you previously provided,
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself;
This also aligns perfectly with other passages outside of Colossians 1. From the beginning all things were made for the Son of Man to inherit and rule over, God promised a son of David to be a king of kings.
Me
You wrote : “From the beginning all things were made for the Son of Man…
It is already good to recognize THAT.
BUT THERE IS MORE :
👉EVERYTHING WAS MADE BY HIM
👉 HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS
👉 BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST(hold together)
…..all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.🙏
Good Morning Berean,
I appreciate you coming forward to say directly that nothing will change your belief, that is nice to know. Your ability to defend your belief as God’s truth however I would say is very much lacking though.
You say, “but there is more” as if we haven’t been debating already about Colossians 1. Why do you do that, why must you pretend?
I had asked you if you could admit to the fact that BY-DIA can mean, “by reason of” and “by means of”. Are you able to admit that?
Are you also able to admit that defining “by” as “by means of” is directly against God’s word elsewhere, but “by” as in “by reason of” aligns perfectly with God’s word elsewhere?
You have admitted yourself that your interpretation does in fact create a contradiction that then needs to be reconciled, but your attempt to produce reconciliation has failed miserably, I couldn’t even gather from you a single thing that established any sort of reconciliation.
- We are given that there is one God, YHVH, who created earth and man by Himself and it is He alone that creates light.
- We are given that YHVH created earth for the purpose that it be inhabited and that He created man to inhabit the earth seeking Him not in vain but in righteousness.
- We are given that YHVH who created man and gave him a spirit to walk therein promised to call a man to righteousness, giving this man of His Spirit, for him to be a light bringing prisoners out from darkness, where YHVH holds his hand and leads him to be this light. Our Creator made Jesus of Nazareth into a light.
- We are given that YHVH calls one man to fulfill His purpose for having created all things in the first place, where this one man brings forth righteousness and is given the earth to inhabit and rule over it all. Such was declared by YHVH from the beginning.
The above and much more is exactly why Paul would say that all things were created by reason of him and for him and why he would say that he is before all things and that in him all things consist, because without him nothing would have been made that was made. Paul explains verse 17 in verses 18-22 and it doesn’t at all fit with your doctrine.
I have pointed out, which you likewise refuse to acknowledge, that the Creator in Colossians 1 also creates thrones and dominions and we are given that God promises to give a son of David an eternal throne and give him dominion overall the New earth. It is not possible for Jesus to be the Creator spoken of in Colossians 1, what is possible and scripturally sounds is that things were created by reason of him and for him.
I have also pointed out that the entire context of Colossians 1 is speaking of the coming Kingdom of God and the New heaven and earth of which the man who shed his blood and went to sit at God’s right hand is firstborn of and ruler overall of. Jesus is not the firstborn of the creation that God knew would be equated to sin and death and would be destroyed, he is the firstborn of righteousness and eternal life in an eternal kingdom of God.
Jodi
I absolutely do not agree with the Unitarian interpretation which makes Christ a BEING who came from below WHILE HE IS FROM ABOVE.
LOOK WELL AT ALL THE USES OF “DIA”
https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm
.among other things
👇
II. of the Ground or Reason on account of which anything is or is not done; by reason of because of (German aus Grund).
1. of the reason for which a thing is done, or of the efficient reason, when for greater insight it may be rendered by (cf. Kühner, § 434 Anm.);
To. with the accusative of the thing: δἰ ἥν, viz. τήν τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμέραν (properly, by reason of which day, i. e. because it will come (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 400 (373))), 2 Peter 3:12; διά τόν λόγον (properly, by reason of the word, i. e. because the word has cleansing power), John 15:3; διά τό θέλημα σου (Vulg.proptar voluntatem tuam, i. e. because thou didst will it), Revelation 4:11; add, Revelation 12:11; Revelation 13:14 (ἀναβιώσκεται διά τήν τοῦ πατρός φύσιν, Plato, symp., p. 203 e.); see Grimm on 2 Macc. 3:1.
b. with the accusative of the person, by whose will, agency, favor, fault, anything is or is done: διά τόν πατέρα … δἰ ἐμέ (properly, because the father lives … because I live (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 399 (373))), John 6:57; διά τόν ὑπταξαντα, by the will of him who suffered it, opposed to οὐχ ἑκοῦσα, Romans 8:20 (cf. Winer’s 399 (373) note); μή εἴπῃς ὅτι διά κύριον ἀπέστην, Sir. 15:11; so too in the Greek writings of every age; see Krüger, § 68, 23; Grimm on 2 Macc. 6:25. Much more often
🙏
Hi Berean,
Clarification, I do not believe that Christ “came from below”. Christ came directly FROM YHVH, directly thus FROM HEAVEN and such was a fulfilled promise spoken by the prophets that was YHVH’s WORD before the world began.
There exists ONLY ONE SENDING of the Anointed Jesus, ONLY ONE SENDING out into the world of an only begotten Son of God. There is no sending of an only begotten Son down to earth to be transformed into an embryo in virgin Mary’s womb. Such is the work of pagans trying to make Jesus into the likes of one of their pagan gods to serve a political purpose under Roman rule, where then men were murdered for believing in a Jesus according to OT prophecy over that of pagan mythology.
DIA, through
- through
1. of place
1.with
2. in
2. of time
1.throughout
2. during
3: of means
1. by
2. by the means of - through
1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
1. by reason of
2. on account of
3. because of for this reason
4. therefore
4. on this account
Jodi
Clarification, I do not believe that Christ “came from below”. Christ came directly FROM YHVH, directly thus FROM HEAVEN and such was a fulfilled promise spoken by the prophets that was YHVH’s WORD before the world began.
Me
CHRIST IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND THEREFORE BEFORE THE PROHETS WHO ANNOUNCED HIS COMING “BEING IN THE FLESH”
🙏
I am prepared to stand corrected and I am on this forum to test my understanding with those of others and see who is providing the best scriptural support to their belief. The best scriptural support is going to be the closest to the truth,
Hi.
How do you deal with this scripture without writing an essay and skirting the issue?
John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?Jesus is clearly stating here that he came from above since he eventually ascended into Heaven to be at the right-hand of God.
There are some of you who are offended and do not believe
Also notice that this all takes place in the context of Jesus coming down from heaven. Read it for yourself.
John 6:50-64
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”
Hi Jodi,
You: I am 46 years old and unlike you and others,
my beliefs are not set in stone,
as I put scripture above my own current understanding.
Me: With every respect to you, Jodi,
this is the appropriate SCRIPTURE by which you confirm what you said above,
ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND IT!
HUMBLY SPEAKING, just to give you a glimpse of the TRUTH!
IGNORE ENTIRELY THE LITERAL SENSE OF IT: Read it, please!
Matthew 4:3 And the tempter coming said to him:
If thou be the Son of God,
command that these stones be made bread.
I am prepared to stand corrected and I am on this forum to test my understanding with those of others and see who is providing the best scriptural support to their belief.
The best scriptural support is going to be the closest to the truth,
Please and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi,
You: Clarification, ????
I do not believe that Christ “came from below”.
Christ came directly FROM YHVH,
directly thus FROM HEAVEN ?????????????????
AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL Jodi:
YOU DON’T KNOW WHERE YOU STAND!
SIMPLY PUZZLED and CONFUSED! Read again Please:
DIRECTLY FROM YHVH!
directly thus FROM HEAVEN!
DO YOU KNOW WHAT “DIRECTLY FROM” SIGNIFIES?
Now just read WHO ALSO CAME DIRECTLY FROM HEAVEN PLEASE:
Rev.12:7And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: 8And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was CAST OUT UNTO THE EARTH, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. 12Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child:
John8:23 And he said to them:
You are from beneath,
I am from above. You are of this world,
I am not of this world.
You: directly thus FROM HEAVEN
IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT YOU USED BLOCK CAPITALS for the phrase” FROM HEAVEN” above, JodI!
Now read what “FROM HEAVEN” SIGNIFIES!
John3:31 He that cometh from above, is above all.……
He that cometh from heaven, is ABOVE ALL.
WHO IS ABOVE ALL IN THAT PRECISE MOMENT JESUS CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN Jodi?
THE FATHER,
THE SON, OR
BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON!
John10: 30 I and the Father are one.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
Christ, the anointed Jesus of Nazareth who shed his blood but was resurrected from the dead is before all things and in him all things consist.
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence (to be first). 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Berean, I would argue that you are denying that Paul immediately explains “he is before all things” and “by him all things consist”. Such doesn’t fit with your doctrine though so you’d rather pull verse 17 out of context, denying flat out the very meaning that is directly given.
As said, the ENTIRE context of chapter 1 of Colossians is speaking to HE WHO SHED HIS BLOOD AND BECAME THE BEGINNING, not of a world of sin, death and destruction, but that of righteousness, eternal life and forever peace, which we are promised to receive, which was God’s WORD, His PURPOSE all along.
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
He who shed his blood is the BEGINNING, the beginning of that which God purposed all along, and as he sits at God’s right hand just as had been promised unto the Son of Man, he exists in the image of God and he is a firstborn overall of the creation that is laid up for us in heaven. This Son of Man, this firstborn existing in the image of God, is returning in the glory of the Father where we will be translated into his kingdom, the kingdom of the Son, where we will be made Sons of God being led by the Spirit of God in all our ways as he is. God will be ALL IN ALL just as God had purposed all along, born of God where His seed remains in us, born of the Spirit being of all goodness, righteousness and truth.
There is ONLY ONE Creation being spoken of in Colossians 1, but that doesn’t fit your doctrine though, so you pull verse 15 out of context. Can you even bring yourself to actually read through the chapter of Colossians 1, let alone spend some time thinking about what is really being taught by it’s contents?
Hi Jodi
I start from verse 12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
👇
Paul then SAYS why WE CAN HAVE REDEMPTION THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
BECAUSE BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED ….(see v. 16-17)
In other words CHRIST ORIGINALLY HAD TO BE OUR CREATOR IN ORDER TO BE OUR REDEEMER
👉 For 👈
👉 by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 👈👇
Then, Paul continues on the theme of the redemption of the church by Christ HIS Head…etc…
[18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22] In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
[24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
[25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
[29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.CONCLUSION
👉ONLY A CHRIST CREATOR OF ALL THINGS CAN BE OUR REDEEMER.👈
IT’S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
🙏
Hi Proclaimer,
YOU: How do you deal with this scripture without writing an essay and skirting the issue?
John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?Jesus is clearly stating here that he came from above since he eventually ascended into Heaven to be at the right-hand of God.
ME: Jesus is speaking about his resurrection, him being raised up, where leading up to verse 62 he is preaching about eternal life and him raising up others, which we know comes through remission of sins by the shedding of his blood. We then read of betrayal by Judas which leads to his death, his resurrection and him being raised up, ascending to where he was before where then many were a witness to him having been raised up.
John 6
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.Immediately after Jesus speaks of ascending up where he was before he speaks of how the Spirit quickens.
We also read,
John 5:21 For as the Father RAISETH UP the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that RAISED UP Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Hi Berean,
YOU:
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
👇
Paul then SAYS why WE CAN HAVE REDEMPTION THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
BECAUSE BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED ….(see v. 16-17)
In other words CHRIST ORIGINALLY HAD TO BE OUR CREATOR IN ORDER TO BE OUR REDEEMER
ME: Our Creator is definitely our redeemer that is true, but it is our one true God YHVH our heavenly Father who is our Creator, who had made earth and man by Himself all ALONE and He is our redeemer through having anointed/set-apart Jesus of Nazareth with His Spirit.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Once again we have direct scripture that shows that it is biblically impossible, a direct lie against the clear word of YHVH our God, to say that Jesus was our Creator.
The anointed Jesus is the promised prophet. He is a messenger and servant unto YHVH who created all things BY HIMSELF and who “confirmeth the word of His servant, and performeth the counsel of His messengers”.
Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Hi Jodi
PLEASE READ ALL carefully
COLOSSIANS
👉For
👉 by him👈 (JESUS)were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created👉 by him, 👈and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.👇
1COR.6:8
But to us there is but one God, the Father,
👉 of whom are all things, 👈
and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ,👉 by whom 👈are all things, and we by him.
Hebrews 1
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, 👉by whom 👈also he made the worlds;
👇👇👇👇👇👇👇
FROM:
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/48964/translation-of-the-greek-prepositions-en-and-dia“Dia” means “through” when used with a genitive noun and “because of” or “on account of” when used with an accusative noun.
In Colossians 1:16, it is used with a genitive noun which is why it’s translated as “through” instead of “because of”
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through (dia) Him (autou) and for Him. (NKJV)
“Autou” is the genitive form (note the “u” ending) while “auton” would have been the accusative form (note the “n” ending).
The same is true of 1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through (dia) whom (hou) are all things, and through (dia) whom (autou) we live. (NKJV)
hou is the genitive form of “hos” meaning “who.”
The same is once again true of Hebrews 1:2
has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through (dia) whom (ou) also He made the worlds (NKJV)
Once again, “dia” is used with a genitive “ou.”
🙏
Hi Berean,
YOU: “Dia” means “through” when used with a genitive noun and “because of” or “on account of” when used with an accusative noun.
ME: I read through your post and studied further genitive and accusative as well as the different autos and I am not seeing anything at all that discredits my position.
Furthermore, “dia” means “through”, that’s correct, but “through” itself can mean “by means of” or “by reason of” so you aren’t making any sense.
all thing were created dia (by reason of) Jesus and for Jesus. As said, “by means of” makes Isaiah into a lying false prophet.
Hi Berean,
16 For by reason of him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by reason of him, and for him:
Jesus didn’t MAKE himself lord nor MAKE himself a king of kings, YHVH our Father did, so it’s nonsense to insist that “dia” means “by means of” in verse 16.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Psalms 89:27 Also I WILL MAKE him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
To be technical, all things are created by means of YHVH our Father’s Spirit, whether that be YHVH Himself using His Spirit to make things or YHVH using His Spirit in the anointed Jesus to make things. This is why Jesus says he can do nothing of himself and why he gives all credit to God. God’s Spirit is in Jesus and God is directing Jesus with what to do. YHVH even used His Spirit with Moses to make the river into blood and to make the sea part.
When it comes to the creating of heaven and earth and man in the beginning we are directly told that YHVH did so by Himself that He did so ALONE. We are told by Jeremiah it was His power, His Wisdom, His discretion and the utterance of His voice. When the Son of Man, our anointed Jesus, returns in our Father’s glory, he will fulfill God’s will making peace on earth, where he does so through God’s Spirit upon him and by God directing all his ways.
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