- This topic has 25,929 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 5 hours, 52 minutes ago by
.
- Posts
Well, there are biblical scholars on both sides.
Do your research.
So stop saying that we are lying.
You are not an honest person.
This conversation is over.All praise to Yahweh the Father in Heaven
and to His Son Jesus Christ/Yeshua Hamashiach. Amen.Hi Berean
You said: My reflection is especially on the fact that God created humanity endowed with free will and that He could have done it without the collaboration of his Son.
How do you know that God, the Father could have created anything apart from his Son? Maybe, but how do you know? I lean towards the possibility that the Father could not have created anything apart from the Son. What if the process of begetting the Son provided the water and the elements of life, for instance. Then the Son would certainly be necessary for creation to take place.
Think about this…when a woman goes through the process of giving birth, things like the placenta and amniotic fluid, which weren’t there before the process, appear during the process. When birth is about to happen, her “water breaks” and then the birth of the offspring, and after that, the “after birth” comes out. Where do you think the water came from in Genesis 1? That afterbirth that comes after the offspring is delivered, has stem cells in it which you might know, can become many different things. It could be that the begetting of the Son before creation was a sort of a “big bang” that began creation.
Job 38:8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
God bless, LU
All praise to Yahweh the Father in Heaven
and to His Son Jesus Christ/Yeshua Hamashiach. Amen.Agree Danny Dabbs!
Lu….Jesus said…..why call me good, there is “ONLY” “ONE” that is good , and that is GOD”. SEEMS JESUS did not want anyone to call him Good, so what makes you think God could not have created anything without Jesus?
God the Father said this…..Isa 45:18….For this says the LORD, that created the heavens; God “HIMSELF” THAT FORMED THE EARTH AND Made it ; “HE” has established it, “HE” created it not in vain, “HE” formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD / YAHOVAH, AND THERE IS “NONE” ELSE.Peace and love to you and yours………….gene
To all….. If you worship and call JESUS your God, and creator, what do you do about the “many” of his brothers?
Scripture says, Jesus is the firstborn of “many” brothers. Why do you push Jesus away from your own identity as a human being? Can’t’ you see that is exactly what Satan wants you to do?He doesn’t want you to believe he is and was “EXACTLY” as we are, “why”, Because he doesn’t want you to truly understand what God the father did for Jesus he can also do “EXACTLY” the same for you. So he created the idea that Jesus was a “PREEXISTING” GOD, WHO CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO THIS EARTH, “WHY”, to cause us to move Jesus away from our own identity with him on a human level. 2Ths2 is exactly what has happened in the church.
THAT IS THE BIGGEST LIE EVER CREATED, ON HUMANITY , this lie turns the image of The Man Jesus Into a PREEXISTING God, and directly breakers the first commandment , “you shall have no other God besides me”. All those who believe Jesus preexisted his life on this earth as a God, have turned the “image”, of Jesus into, “a man of sin”, because it breakers the first commandment of God.peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Danny….“No” I don’t believe Jesus is my savior, I believe God the Father is my savior, and he does it through the sacrificing of his son , the man Jesus as payment for my sins.
“GOD” so loved the world, that “HE” gave his only begotten (in and through humanity) Son, that he who believes in him “should not” parish but have everlasting life. (Parentheses mine)
That Danny, is a work of “GOD” the Father, which “HE” BROUGHT ABOUT, IN, and THROUGH His anointed son, the “MAN” Jesus .
Isa 45: 21…. Tell you and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? and there is “NO” GOD else beside me: a just God and a “SAVIOUR” ; there is “NONE” beside me.
Question is Danny , do you believe what God says, like Jesus did , or do you believe what fallen Christianity says? That is the true question here Danny.
peace and love to you and yours………..gene
“No” I don’t believe Jesus is my savior
Then I urge you to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.
Because Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world.
1 John 4:14 “We have seen and testify that the Father
has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.”Question is Danny , do you believe what God says
Yes, I do.
1 John 4:14 “We have seen and testify that the Father
has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.”Danny , seeing it was God the Father who sent him, So who is the “TRUE” SAVIOR OF THE WORLD?
- It was “God” the Father who sent Jesus, Jesus never sent himself did he?
Who sent the saviors MOSES AND MANY OTHER SAVIORS TO SAVE ISREAL OVER AND OVER WAS IT THE SAVIORS OR GOD THE FATHER WHO SENT THEM? WHO ACTUALLY SAVED THE PEOPLE, by the power of God in them.
WHAT YOU PEOPLE DO IS pay Jesus for what GOD THE father did through him. What did Jesus say about that. HERE is what he said concerning himself,
John 5 : 19….Then answered Jesus and said unto them , “verily, verily, I say unto you, the son can do “NOTHING” of ” HIMSELF”, but what he sees the Father do:
John 5:30 … Again what Jesus said not what false teachers say…“I can of my own self do “NOTHING”: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not “MINE” OWN “WILL” , but the “WILL” of the Father which has sent me.
He that has ears to here let him hear.Danny do you understand the words of Jesus?
Jesus could do no more works then any of the other saviors God sent to Israel could On their own could do, only what God gave them to do. . But because you people think Jesus is and was a GOD, you believe and preach Jesus as him saving us by himself you don’t understand it was God the Father doing the works. But if you truly believed what Jesus himself said , you would know , Jesus of “himself” could do nothing. It was God the Father who was and is saving us.John 6 : 45……It is written in the prophets, And they shall be “all” taught of (by) God: “Every man therefore that hath heard, and has learned of (from) the Father, comes unto me.
John 6: 65…..And he (Jesus) said, “Therefore said I unto you, that “NO” man “Can” come unto me except it were given unto him of (from) my Father.
Danny again I say unto you and all, there is “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” “SAVIOR” and that is God the Father , no matter who he choses to do it through. He and he alone is the one doing it.
Time to start believing what Jesus himself said, instead of what fallen Christianity is saying.
Peace and love to you and yours……..gene
He that has the eyes to see let him see.
Gene
Certainly the Son could / can do nothing without the Father; but neither could the Father save the world without HIS OWN SON ….
No one else could be the substitute and the guarantor of humanity than THE ONLY SON OF GOD
IF JESUS HAD FAVORED WE WOULD BE WITHOUT HOPE … SEE THIS …
Gene can you say our Saviour Jesus Christ?
If not then please read 2 Timothy 1:10
“But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:”God bless,
Danny
Hi Gene,
YOU: Danny , seeing it was God the Father who sent him, So who is the “TRUE” SAVIOR OF THE WORLD?
Gene read and answer please!
Samuel 17:32 And when he was brought to him, he said to him:
Let not any man’s heart be dismayed in him: I thy servant will go, and will fight against the Philistine.
33And Saul said to David: Thou art not able to withstand this Philistine, nor to fight against him: for thou art but a boy, but he is a warrior from his youth. 37And David said: The Lord who delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine.
And Saul said to David:
Go, and the Lord be with thee.
Answer Gene:
SOUL GAVE THE GO AHEAD TO DAVID RIGHT?
WHO KILLED GOLIATH THEN?
SOUL or
DAVID?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Gene,
YOU: It was “God” the Father who sent Jesus, Jesus never sent himself did he?
ME: Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily (as the other priests) to offer sacrifices first for his own sins, and then for the people’s:
for this he did once,
in offering himself.
Ephesians 5:21Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given himself for us
an offering and a sacrifice
to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
The above scriptures, Gene, emphatically proclaim that
JESUS OFFERED HIMSELF AS THE SACRIFICE, and God the Father sent him!
Now the thing you have to grasp is that the Father sent Him in His place, as it was not possible for the Father, A SPIRIT, to come on earth in
A CURSED FLESH, apart from that He was too powerful, and could not reveal Himself to humanity unless they all be eradicated by His power!
The fact that Lucifer took advantage of the situation and rebelled!
So in actual fact, as Jesus Himself declared
HE WAS IN THE FATHER and
THE FATHER WAS IN HIM!
There’s no difference between the Father and the Son since both are
equivalently need each other for the kingdom of God
Well declared by Jesus in
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me by my Father, and
no one knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and
who the Father is, but the Son, and
to whom the Son will reveal Him!
REVEAL HIM, OBVIOUS IN HIS UNIQUE EMBODIMENT!
JESUS CHRIST GODMAN ON EARTH! 1John5:20
the fact that it is
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON,
ALL IN THE SON, ALL BY THE SON, and ALL FOR THE SON
JESUS DIED!
JESUS GAVE HIS DEAD BODY TO HUMANITY ON HIS RESURRECTION!
Well asserted in the last supper:
EAT THIS IS MY FLESH WHICH IS
GIVEN
FOR YOU! I repeat:
ON HIS RESURRECTION!
BUT AGAIN FURNISHED AND EMPOWERED BY THE FATHER, Luke 10:22 above, and
FOR THE GLORY OF GOD!
THE FACT THAT GOD FURNISHED HIS SON, A SPIRIT
“THE WORD ” MADE FLESH PRECISELY WITH
THE UNIQUE PURE DIVINE FLESH,
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3
John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said:
Father, the hour is come,
glorify thy Son,
that thy Son may glorify thee.
The oneness of God manifested on earth in
the Father and the Son
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Berean….please produce one scripture that says “Before he was on earth his name YHVH or YAHOVAH. “. Berean
There is none Gene,
Because they promote a fallacy
Jesus name is “YA-shu-a” not YeHoHaH – which is his Jesus’ father’s name.
They only share the the first part of God’s name (יה)
But the lies will likely continue.“Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee,
and thou be found a liar.” (Prov 30:6)____________
God bless
Ed JCarmel……David answered your question , THE LORD “YAHOVAH ” his God and our God , delivered him, just as he delivered him from the lion and the bear.
Carmel, Jesus was “all” about what God the Father was doing, in and through him, he was an obedient servant of the Father as a “obedient” son.
Carmel, my point is this, who is worthy of greater honor the , “the one who could do “NOTHING ” of himself”, or the one that “all things are possible with”. Jesus spent his whole time on this earth giving honor to the God the Father, saying “I have glorified “you” upon the earth”, but you people act as if God the Father is not even in the picture of your salvation when he is the very one that saves us.
Everything Jesus had, including his very life he owed to God the Father, Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, it was God the Father that raised him. What you people have done is replace God the Father with Jesus, something Jesus never did. Jesus’ whole ministry was strictly about God the Father, and his obedience to him. He came and preached the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Telling us to pray this way, “Our Father ( his and ours) who is in heaven, “Holy”, be “thy” name , “thy” kingdom come, “thy” will be done, on earth just as it is in heaven, …..and how does it end up?, FOR THINE IS THE POWER AND GLORY FOR EVER.
But your false trinitarian teachings have change that and you make everything about Jesus, at the expense of the one that Created it all. That’s my point in this discussion. This is the way I see it.
I do bow my knee to Jesus, “unto the “GLORY” OF GOD.
But you people have removed God from his position of Greatest honor and Glory as the most important being of all including Jesus himself, this is something Jesus Christ never did or would ever do either. You preach Jesus but don’t believe what he says about God the Father as the “only ” true God.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Edj
Read PSALM 24 especialy verse 7 TO the end .
THIS IS ABOUT THE SON OF GOD (A PROPHECY)
RETURNING TO THE CELESTIAL CITY AFTER HIS RESURRECTION.
FROM THE VERSE 7 TO THE END OF PsalmModern Hebrew
שאו שערים ראשיכם
והנשאו פתחי עולם
ויבוא מלך הכבוד׃Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
24:7.
Hebrew Transliterated
24:7 Sh’aV Sh’yUrYM Ur’aShYKM VHNSh’aV PhThChY ‘yVLM VYBV’a MLK HKBVD.Latin Vulgate
24:7 levate portae capita vestra et elevamini ianuae sempiternae et ingrediatur rex gloriaeKing James Version
24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.American Standard Version
24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; And be ye lifted up, ye everlasting doors: And the King of glory will come in.Bible in Basic English
24:7 Let your heads be lifted up, O doors; be lifted up, O you eternal doors: that the King of glory may come in.Darby’s English Translation
24:7 Lift up your heads, ye gates, and be ye lifted up, ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in.Douay Rheims Bible
24:7 Lift up your gates, O ye princes, and be ye lifted up, O eternal gates: and the King of Glory shall enter in.Noah Webster Bible
24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lifted up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.World English Bible
24:7 Lift up your heads, you gates; Be lifted up, you everlasting doors: The King of glory will come in.Young’s Literal Translation
24:7 Lift up, O gates, your heads, And be lifted up, O doors age-during, And come in doth the king of glory!8
Modern Hebrew
מי זה מלך הכבוד
יהוה עזוז וגבור
יהוה גבור מלחמה׃Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
24:8.
Hebrew Transliterated
24:8 MY ZH MLK HKBVD YHVH ‘yZVZ VGBVUr YHVH GBVUr MLChMH.Latin Vulgate
24:8 quis est iste rex gloriae Dominus fortis et potens Dominus fortis in proelioKing James Version
24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.American Standard Version
24:8 Who is the King of glory? Jehovah strong and mighty, Jehovah mighty in battle.Bible in Basic English
24:8 Who is the King of glory? The Lord of strength and power, the Lord strong in war.Darby’s English Translation
24:8 Who is this King of glory? Jehovah strong and mighty, Jehovah mighty in battle.Douay Rheims Bible
24:8 Who is this King of Glory? the Lord who is strong and mighty: the Lord mighty in battle.Noah Webster Bible
24:8 Who is this King of glory? the LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.World English Bible
24:8 Who is the King of glory? Yahweh strong and mighty, Yahweh mighty in battle.Young’s Literal Translation
24:8 Who is this —the king of glory?Jehovah — strong and mighty, Jehovah, the mighty in battle.9
Modern Hebrew
שאו שערים ראשיכם
ושאו פתחי עולם
ויבא מלך הכבוד׃Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
24:9.
Hebrew Transliterated
24:9 Sh’aV Sh’yUrYM Ur’aShYKM VSh’aV PhThChY ‘yVLM VYB’a MLK HKBVD.Latin Vulgate
24:9 levate portae capita vestra et erigite ianuae sempiternae et ingrediatur rex gloriaeKing James Version
24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.American Standard Version
24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; Yea, lift them up, ye everlasting doors: And the King of glory will come in.Bible in Basic English
24:9 Let your heads be lifted up, O doors; let them be lifted up, O you eternal doors: that the King of glory may come in.Darby’s English Translation
24:9 Lift up your heads, ye gates; yea, lift up, ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in.Douay Rheims Bible
24:9 Lift up your gates, O ye princes, and be ye lifted up, O eternal gates: and the King of Glory shall enter in.Noah Webster Bible
24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.World English Bible
24:9 Lift up your heads, you gates; Yes, lift them up, you everlasting doors: The King of glory will come in.Young’s Literal Translation
24:9 Lift up, O gates, your heads, And be lifted up, O doors age-during, And come in doth the king of glory!10
Modern Hebrew
מי הוא זה מלך
הכבוד יהוה צבאות
הוא מלך הכבוד
סלה׃Paleo-Hebrew (Before 585 B.C.)
24:10.
Hebrew Transliterated
24:10 MY HV’a ZH MLK HKBVD YHVH TShB’aVTh HV’a MLK HKBVD SLH.Latin Vulgate
24:10 quis est iste rex gloriae Dominus exercituum ipse est rex gloriae semperKing James Version
24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.American Standard Version
24:10 Who is this King of glory? Jehovah of hosts, He is the King of glory. SelahBible in Basic English
24:10 Who is the King of glory? The Lord of armies, he is the King of glory. (Selah.)Darby’s English Translation
24:10 Who is he, this King of glory? Jehovah of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.Douay Rheims Bible
24:10 Who is this King of Glory? the Lord of hosts, he is the King of Glory.Noah Webster Bible
24:10 Who is this King of glory? the LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.World English Bible
24:10 Who is this King of glory? Yahweh of Hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah.Young’s Literal Translation
24:10 Who is He — thisking of glory?Jehovah of hosts — He is the king of glory! Selah.Conclusion
FATHER AND SON SHARE THE SAME DIVINE NAME : YHVH
Yeshua Hamashiach IS THE DIVINO/HUMAN NAME OF THE SON OF GOD.
THIS IS THAT I BELEIVE
- It was “God” the Father who sent Jesus, Jesus never sent himself did he?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
