JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

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  • #867261
    Berean
    Participant

    Lexicon :: Strong’s G1096 – ginomai

    γίνομαι
    Transliteration
    ginomai (Key)
    Pronunciation
    ge’-no-mi (Key)
    Part of Speech
    verb
    Root Word (Etymology)
    A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb
    Greek Inflections of γίνομαι [?]
    mGNT
    670x in 81 unique form(s) TR
    676x in 87 unique form(s) LXX
    1,703x in 103 unique form(s)γεγενημένον — 2x
    γεγενῆσθαι — 1x
    γεγένησθε — 2x
    Γέγονα — 1x
    γέγονα — 4x
    γεγόναμεν — 2x
    γέγονας — 3x
    γέγονασιν — 1x
    γεγόνασιν — 2x
    γεγόνατε — 2x
    Γέγονεν — 1x
    γέγονεν — 34x
    γεγονέναι — 4x
    γεγονὸς — 4x
    γεγονός — 3x
    γεγονότας — 1x
    γεγονότες — 2x
    γεγονότι — 1x
    γεγονυῖα — 1x
    γεγονὼς — 1x
    γενέσθαι — 38x
    γένεσθε — 1x
    γενέσθω — 5x
    γενηθέντας — 1x
    γενηθέντες — 2x
    γενηθέντων — 1x
    γενηθῆναι — 1x
    γενήθητε — 1x
    Γενηθήτω — 2x
    γενηθήτω — 6x
    γενήσεσθε — 2x
    γενήσεται — 10x
    γένησθε — 7x
    γενησόμενον — 1x
    γένηταί — 1x
    γένηται — 45x
    γένοιτό — 1x
    γένοιτο — 16x
    γενόμενα — 7x
    γενόμεναι — 4x
    γενομένην — 4x
    Γενομένης — 3x
    γενομένης — 31x
    γενόμενοι — 6x
    γενομένοις — 2x
    γενόμενον — 5x
    γενόμενος — 26x
    γενομένου — 8x
    Γενομένων — 1x
    γενομένων — 1x
    γένωμαι — 2x
    γενώμεθα — 1x
    γένωνται — 4x
    γίνεσθαι — 10x
    γινέσθαι — 1x
    Γίνεσθε — 3x
    γίνεσθε — 21x
    γινέσθω — 3x
    γίνεται — 26x
    γινόμενα — 4x
    γινομένας — 1x
    γινομένη — 1x
    γινομένῃ — 1x
    γινόμενοι — 2x
    γινομένοις — 1x
    γινόμενον — 4x
    γινομένων — 1x
    γινόνται — 1x
    γίνου — 5x
    γινώμεθα — 3x
    γίνωνται — 1x
    ἐγεγόνει — 2x
    ἐγένεσθε — 3x
    ἐγένετο — 168x
    ἐγενέτο — 1x
    Ἐγένετο — 35x
    ἐγενήθη — 11x
    ἐγενήθημεν — 7x
    ἐγενήθησάν — 1x
    ἐγενήθησαν — 2x
    ἐγενήθητε — 4x
    ἐγενόμην — 13x
    ἐγένοντο — 17x
    Ἐγένοντο — 1x
    ἐγένου — 2x
    ἐγίνετο — 1x
    Ἐγίνετο — 1x
    Dictionary Aids

    Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
    to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
    to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

    of events
    to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

    of men appearing in public
    to be made, finished

    of miracles, to be performed, wrought
    to become, be made

     

    IN SUMMARY
    BEFORE ABRAHAM COMES INTO EXISTENCE,

    JESUS SAYS:

    I AM

    #867262
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer, wrong again , no he is NOT, the word of God “himself” he is called that “because” he spoke God the Fathers words to us. Me and Mike agree on that.

    If he is the main speaker of God’s Word then that is every reason to believe that he is the Word of God.

    Similarly, he will save people from their sins, so he was called Jesus, thus he is Jesus.

    Real simple.

    Is your name Gene? Then you are Gene despite everyone having genes. Lol. You are your name.

    I am called Proclaimer in Heaven Net, thus you address me as Proclaimer. So I am Proclaimer despite proclamations being an attribute of others.

    Even if we ignore all the scripture that is counter to your teachings, even this most basic logic has defeated your argument.

    You lost buddy.

    #867263
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    According to Gene’s argument, if applied to himself, God did not create him because his parents were involved. Thus he is not part of creation. He must be special. And my pet dog was not created by God either because I met his mother. Come to think of it, God didn’t create any living being that didn’t come directly from God.

    #867264
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To add another point here. Who was the first living being to be with God. That person would have to be special. Like an only begotten of the Father, the firstborn of all creation. The life that was with the Father in the beginning. Hmmm. Tough question. Who could that be?

    #867265
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene, you lost this argument a very long time ago. As for us, we will continue to hold firmly to the truth, encourage by sound doctrine, & refute those who oppose it.

    #867267
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel……No Mike is right, Jesus is called thec word of God because he speaks to us thec words of God,  not “his” words,  or don’t  you believe what Jesus said ,  

    the word I am telling you are “NOT” my word , but the words of him who sent me.  

    Jesus plainly tell you THE WORDS HE WAS TELLING THEM WAS “NOT” FROM HIMSELF.

    How much clearer can it get?

    SCRIPTURE!

    John14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you;

    and have you not known me? Philip,

    he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    ME: THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE CLEARLY SAYS  Gene, THAT

    THERE’S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

    GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS

    THE FATHER’S OWN WORD

    AS MUCH AS THERE’S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

    YOU AND YOUR OWN WORDS!

    Likewise, there’s no difference between

    JESUS and THE FATHER’S WORDS.

    THE FACT THAT JESUS EMPHATICALLY MADE IT CLEAR AND SAID:

    How sayest thou,

    Shew us the Father?

    HOW CAN  A PERSON ASK WHO 

    ACTUALLY, Gene is after HE HEARS Gene SPEAKS?

    10 Do you not believe,

    that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

    GOT IT Gene?

    YOU Gene are IN whatever YOU SAY,

    AS MUCH AS WHATEVER YOU SAY IS IN YOU!!!

    THAT’S HOW PEOPLE REALIZE THAT YOU ARE A LIAR IN RELATION TO YOUR PREACHING/WORDS!

    Gene, whatever you say is IN YOU.

    IT ORIGINATES and COMES FROM YOUR OWN HEART

    It is your own image.

    THIS IS WHAT JESUS MADE CLEAR TO PHILIP AND SAID:

    The words that I  (AS THE ACTUAL WORD OF GOD) speak to you,

    I speak not of myself.  (NOT JESUS ORIGIN,)

    YOUR WORDS Gene did not originate by themselves

    but BY YOU!

    AGAIN, THIS IS ALSO MADE CLEAR BY JESUS WHEN HE SAID:

    But THE FATHER

    who abideth in me,

    he doth the works. 

    AS MUCH AS YOU

    Gene, ABIDES

    IN YOUR OWN WORDS, AND ALSO

    DO WHAT YOU SAY 

    EITHER GOOD/TRUTH OR BAD/LIE

    BY WHICH WORDS/WORKS YOU WILL BE 

    JUSTIFIED

    MATTHEW 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    How much clearer can it get?

    JESUS IS THE ACTUAL

    WORD OF GOD 

    SPOKEN and WRITTEN!

    ALL IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD Gene!!!!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #867268
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    CARMEL…..Again  you completely neglected the scriptures I quoted from scriptures to you. The same applies to Berean and Proclaimer,  you all  force our scripture to say what in fact they do not say, and even add your own words and thoughts  to our texts to make your false “assumptions” as the Pharisees  did at the time of Jesus.

    But none the less the truth will ultimately stand, then we shall see who is telling the truth ?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

    #867269
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer,  The “Spirit of truth”, given,  Jodi and I,  here give us the “cognisity” of what is true, and what is a lie. 

    Most here do not have it or they would reject all the false teaching about Jesus, derived from all the “apostate” churches, which they have  adopted over the last two thousand years.  

    If you believe Jesus “PREXISTED” his birth on this earth as a sentinel being of anykind ,  you are blind to the words of God the Father, and his work in the human race, through the SON OF “MAN”, JESUS CHRIST .  A 100% pure human being who did not exist before his birth on this earth. He only existed in the plan and “Will” Of God the Father, just as we did,  who brought him forth from the seed of King David at the proper time, and anointed him with his holy spirit and sent him out to preach the good new of the kingdom of God.

    No one here has produced a single scripture that shows Jesus ever saying he prexisted his birth on this earth. IF you have it produce it, where Jesus himself said he did preexist his birth.

    You people produce nothing but scripture you can force to say what in fact they do not specifically say, nor even hint at, and even counterdict what other scriptures say.

    It is true where it say “because they recieved not the love of the truth , GOD  will send unto them a deluding spirit, in order for them to “believe a lie”. 2THS2.  

    Once God has deluded some one,  they cannot reconize the truth. Even if it is right in front of then like the pharisees of Jesus day. just a bunch of blind men , who have fallen into a ditch,  groping at the walls.

    Sad., peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

     

    #867270
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean. ….I see you really don’t want a real bible study, on the scriptures I posted,  but I believe you can see my points m but rather not deal with them in a honest way,  So be it .

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    #867271
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.(John17:5)

    You see well That Jesus was WITH His Father in Heaven BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

    #867272
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU CARMEL…..Again  you completely neglected the scriptures I quoted from scriptures to you. The same applies to Berean and Proclaimer,  you all  force our scripture to say what in fact they do not say, and even add your own words and thoughts  to our texts to make your false “assumptions” as the Pharisees  did at the time of Jesus.

    But none the less the truth will ultimately stand, then we shall see who is telling the truth ?

    ME: I ALREADY MADE IT CLEAR IN MANY OCCASIONS Gene,

    UNLESS YOU IGNORE YOUR PREFERRED

    BLA, BLA, AND BLA,

    BE SPECIFIC, CONTRADICT ME BY USING SCRIPTURES. 

    MINE STNDS AS TRUTH

    and yours

    REMAIN

    LIES, LIES, and LIES.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #867275
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……here you go……“that they might know you the “ONLY” true God,” …….

    And again,  but unto us there is ” ONE” GOD, and one “MEDIATOR ” between God and men,  the  “MAN” Jesus Christ.  

    There is JUST some of scripture for you to chew on and destroy to meet your false teachings Carmel.

    You have never got past those scriptures yet.  Not to even mention all the prophets, that Jesus himself used to show his true deciples who he was, Which you obvisely have rejected.

    Because you have not loved the truth “God has sent unto you a deluding spirit, in order for you to believe a lie”,  2ths2.   That “LIE” is,  you have made Jesus your God, and a prexistent one also. 

    You and people who believe as you do , do not see Jesus as a “second ADAM”  at all,  but a preexisting being “MORPHED” into a human body,  even though scripture tell you that he “Learned” obediance by the thing he suffered.  

    Tell us how does a perfect preexisting being “learn” obediance? You rob God the Father,  and pay the “man” Jesus.  For the work of the Father himself. 

    Trust me Carmel , you haven’t a clue of what the truth really is. All your posts say nothing, you present them as you master Satan wants you to  “completely wrong”,  As all false teachers do.

    I would tell you to repent, but you can’t because of the deluding Spirit sent unto you. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

     

    #867276
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..please show us where what you quoted say I existed before I was born on this earth? 

    Again you force the text to say what it does not specifically say?

    I could say the same thing about me, “for who he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed unto his Son.” , so tell me,  was I preexisting also? after all it says, who he foreknew, and Hebrews says he Has both “Honored” me (mankind) and crowned me with “Glory”,  and put all things  under my feet.

    Thats what scripture say,  but I see no one saying we preexisted our birth here on earth,  but we do also have that Glory before the foundation of the earth too.

    Show me where SCRIPTURE proves me wrong BEREAN.

    Peaceand love to you and yours. …………gene

    #867277
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    You’re saying nonsense
    you are dishonest and you tire me out.

    #867278
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene, wakeup.

    Did God create the universe through you. Will you be in the glory you had with the Father before the universe when you die. Are you the Word become flesh.

    I think we can all see that the Ordinary Jesus Brigade is false.

    The readers here can make up their own minds as the evidence from both sides has been argued.

    #867280
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel……here you go……

    “that they might know you the “ONLY” true God,” …….

    HERE WE GO:

    Gene, YOU ARE FOCUSING ONLY ON THE PHRASE:

    the “ONLY” true God,” …….

    In the same time you are IGNORING COMPLETELY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART WHICH IS

    THE BEGINNING OF THE SENTENCE. READ:

    John17:3 Now this is eternal life:

    JESUS IN THE ABOVE PHRASE REFERRED TO HIMSELF AND

    HIS PROCESS OF ETERNAL LIFE, ATTENTION Gene; 

    WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER! PRE-EXISTED!!! READ THE TRUTH:

    1John1:2  For the life(ETERNAL) was manifested;

    WHO IS THIS LIFE Gene???

    JESUS; “THE WORD” WHICH WAS IN/WITH THE FATHER.

    PRE-EXISTED. 

    IN THE SAME WAY, YOUR WORD IS IN/WITH YOU! KEEP ON READING:

    and we have seen (THIS LIFE, JESUS) and do bear witness, and declare unto you

    the life eternal, (JESUS, for the simple reason that in order for the eternal life to

    FUNCTION, TO BE MANIFESTED ON EARTH

    MORTAL;

    Jesus MUST DIE!

    AS THE FATHER WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO ACHIEVE THIS UNIQUE TASK UNLESS HE HIMSELF IN HIS OWN SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3  AS A HUMAN IN JESUS, HIS SON! ATTENTION AGAIN;

    which was with the Father, (PRE-EXISTED)

    and hath

    APPEARED to us: (PRE-EXISTED)

    SINCE IT APPEARED IT IS OBVIOUS

    THAT EXISTED BEFORE IT APPEARED!NO?

    Now let’s continue John 17:3…..

    That they may know thee,

    OK Gene???

    ALL JESUS’OWN TASKS AND PROCESSES EVEN

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. 

    WAS IN ORDER FOR ALL CREATURES, EVEN THE HEAVENLY REALMS TO KNOW

    WHO IS THE ONLY TRUE, ATTENTION AGAIN, Gene

    INVISIBLE GOD!

    Satan, up to Jesus redemption THROUGH HIS DEATH, purposely to eradicate DEATH, SATAN’S EMPIRE, and TRANSFORM DEATH INTO LIFE, GOD’S EMPIRE,

    considered himself

    EQUAL WITH GOD, unless it is manifested

    PHYSICALLY on earth otherwise BY

    GOD AS A HUMAN.

    Simply as humanity BY EVE’S SIN, the mother of all the cursed in flesh, was SATAN’S PROPERTY REGARDING FLESH, with the exception of THE JEWS.

    THAT WAS GOD’S OWN PLAN!

    BOTH GOD AND SATAN ARE  SPIRITS, UNKNOWN and POWERFUL. Satan took advantage of the situation NOT ONLY through his lies, but he believed that he owns his own POWER, AUTONOMOUS.

    THE OLD TESTAMENT IS CRAMMED WITH INSTANCES WHERE GOD MANIFESTED HIS TRUTH AND POWER BY THE PROPHETS; The most prominent is Elia’s sacrifice.

    BUT FOR NO USE! WHY???

    SIMPLY BECAUSE IT WAS AGREED BEFORE THE WORLD WAS THAT GOD’S ONLY WAY TO BE ACCEPTED AS

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH, and EVENTUALLY ALSO IN HEAVEN,

    WAS THAT HE HIMSELF DEMONSTRATES HIS SUPERIORITY AS

    MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT NOT, ATTENTION Gene,

    A HUMAN BEING IN FLESH AND BLOOD OF EARTH, 

    SINCE EARTH WAS SATAN’S OWN PROPERTY TILL IT IS MANIFESTED OTHERWISE PRECISELY BY THIS

    HUMAN BEING AND DIVINE.

    “THE WORD” JESUS,

    THE SON OF MAN!

    Something that Satan was more than convinced that IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR GOD!

    AND NOW WE COME FOR JESUS OWN CLAIM:

    That they may know thee,

    the only true God,

    and Jesus Christ,

    whom thou hast sent.

    NO JESUS NO TRUE GOD

    NO TRUE GOD NO JESUS

    NOW LET’S SETTLE THIS TRUTH Gene and read:

    1John5:19 We know that we are of God,

    and the whole world is seated in wickedness. (SATANIC)

     20And we know that the Son of God (JESUS CHRIST EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)

     is come:(PRE-EXISTED)

    and he(JESUS CHRIST) hath given us understanding

    that we may know

    the true God,(definitely and only since

    IT IS PHYSICALLY MANIFESTED ON EARTH)

    and may be in his

    TRUE Son.(MANIFESTED ON EARTH)

    THIS IS THE TRUE GOD and

    ETERNAL LIFE.

    JESUS CHRIST!!!  Also well clear in

    Ephesians 4:1I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, (JESUS CHRIST)beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit (CHRIST’S)in the bond of peace.

    4One body and one Spirit; (CHRIST’S)

    as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, (CHRIST)one faith, one baptism.

    6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER OF THE HUMAN RACE ON EARTH!

    Isaiah 9:6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and

    a son is given to us,

    and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor,

    God the Mighty,(unique in flesh)

    the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #867285
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer…..The answer to your question is “no” and “yes”

    “NO” God created the universe “alone and by himself”.

    God created from the foundations of this earth, everything, for the perpose of all humanity, including me and Jesus my lord.  We are the “purpose”  of all his physical creation.

    Did I have “Glory” and  “Honor” , and was all things put under my feet , before I was ever born on this earth “YES” , “EXACTLY” as it was for Jesus my lord. 

    Do I have a “HEAVENLY” Father “exactly ” the same as the “man” Jesus “YES”.  

    Is God the Father  my God  and Jesus’ GOD,  “YES”  the “exact” same 

    Jesus never glorified “himself”, but said this, ” I have glorified “YOU” on the earth,” , and again,    if I gorify myself, my glory is “nothing” .  BUT YOU PEOPLE glorify him as your God, something Jesus never did.  You people spend nearly all your time preaching about Jesus, but Jesus spent all his time showing us how to Worship and Glorify “GOD” THE FATHER,   you people preach and believe Jesus is your Saviour,and how to Worship him,   I preach and believe GOD THE FATHER IS MY SAVIOUR and the Saviour of all mankind  and THE “MAN”, Jesus also, who is  my lord. (Adoni) (a human ruler), Not my LORD (Adonia) ALMIGHTY GOD.  

    You people make “everything” about the man Jesus, but Jesus made “everything” about God the Father.  The one you people idolize and worship as your savior is Jesus,  who me and Jesus worship and Glorify as our Saviour is, GOD the Father.   Your teaching moves Jesus away from his “ordinary” human roots to,  a God ,  I and Jesus my lord  don’t do that,  lest we be Idolaters as you are.  I walk “beside”  Jesus my lord, in fellowship, worshiping “our” “ONLY” TRUE GOD, and in seeking to obey him,  in Spirit and truth. 

    You people say Jesus is your lord, but you don’t obey him,  nor what he said either, or you would never preach nor elevate him as your God, even above God the father in the churches , in so doing you have turned the “image”  the “man”  Jesus into   a “man of sin”,  and you fall down and worship him as your God . Exactly as Paul prophesied you  would do. in “2ths2 “. 

    If you don’t see Jesus as an real ordinary,   human flesh being, who God the Father  took from the root of the man Jesse, and a offspring of the man David, and made him a “SECOND”  Adam,  a flesh and blood human being and nothing  more nor nothing less, and then exactly as he made the First Adam and ,  “HIGHELY EXHULTED HIM” as a human being,  a human  lord, comming  from humanity,  a real SON OF MANKIND ,  whose only true Father was God, exactly as our only true Father is also. If you can’t understand that, then you simply are blind to the truth. 

    All this stuff about a “preexisting” being , another God, or Angel, or whatever in the case of Proclainer is nothing but , “pure hog wash” a “LIE” ,  created by false teacher who believe “the LIE” Satan has placed in the church, over two thousand years ago, through the GNOSTIC’S.  

    You people dont relize Jesus said the “deception that would come would be about him, saying  ” for many will come in my name saying I am the Christ and “DECIEVE” MANY”.  You must come  to see what that deception is, it’s about “WHO” Jesus is.  He was and is not a preexisting being of anykind, he did not preexist his birth on this earth,  or he could not be a second Adam.

    Peace and love to you all and your………..gene

     

     

     

     

     

    #867286
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    Unitarianism which denies the divinity and humanity of Christ is doomed to total annihilation.

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead(deity) (Colossians 2:8,9)

    #867287
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..If something “DWELLS “IN” YOU”   does that make you “IT” ? , NO , that’s like saying,  I dwell in this house so therefore , the house is me. How foolish to think that!

    “know you not that your “bodies” are the temple of the “Living God”?, so,  in your way of thinking I must be God, how foolish , I am no God and neither is or was Jesus, I am a product of mankind, who God created,   a Son of Man,    so was and is Jesus, according to the flesh, according  to him at least, because he said he was a son of man around eighty times,  I am a Son of God,  because the Spirit of God Dwells “in”  me also, so is Jesus,  but then again you people do not believe  Jesus nor what he said either.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

     

     

     

     

    #867290
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    In you or in me does not live
    the fullness of divinity.
    In Jesus YES. It is another thing to be filled with the Holy Spirit; in his very essence Jesus is God; the reason is that HE IS THE OWN SON OF GOD.
    ON THE OTHER HAND, HE IS NOT “A” SON OF MAN BUT “THE” SON OF MAN.

    When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? (Mathew 16:13)

     

     

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