JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Proclaimer]

T8 would you also please address my question

I’m working my way back so haven’t come to it yet.

I suspect it was about what you said to Berean, so I will answer that.

The Word became flesh means the Word took on the nature of man and thus became visible.

The Word that was with God is not said to have a body that I can tell anyway.

[carmel]

Hi Jodi,

YOU: The kingdom that we are to enter is

our heavenly Father’s kingdom, He is the King over His Kingdom.

LIES!

WHERE IN SCRIPTURES WE FIND IT WRITTEN AS

THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER?

THERE’S ONLY ONE KINGDOM OF GOD.

THERE’S ONLY ONE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. and that is

THE ONLY KINGDOM OF THE SON,

Read: Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into

the kingdom of his dear Son:

 14In whom we have redemption through his BLOOD, (WHICH THE FATHER COULD NOT PRODUCE, EXCEPT IN JESUS AS HIS OWN!)

even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God,

the firstborn of every creature: (ON JESUS’BAPTISM, BORN OF WATER AND OF THE HOLY GHOST, FOR THE SAKE OF MANY BRETHREN, the entire human race ALL EMBODIED IN JESUS John 3:5)

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (FOR HIS ONE AND ONLY ONE KINGDOM, FOR THE FATHER TO BE ALL IN ALL ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD)

17And he is before all things, (PRE-EXISTED AS “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN) and by him all things consist.(SEALED ETERNALLY IN CREATION John6:27)  18And he(CHRIST) is the head of the body, the church: (JESUS THE SON OF MAN)who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;(SPIRITUALLY DEAD, BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH, ENGRAFTED AS “THE WORD” ETERNAL LIFE IN ALL HEARTS/SOULS, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. James 1:21…..receive the ENGRAFTED WORD, which is able to save your souls. THE MAN BORN AGAIN, on his resurrection, John3:3 

that in all things he might have the PRIMACY.

19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

EMBODIED IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, and ALL IN HIM, GENUINELY HIS BRETHREN, PURIFIED BY HIS OWN BLOOD

THAN GLORIFIED ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST THE SON OF GOD  IN

JESUS CHRIST, GOD, AND FATHER of the Human race John20:17

GOD OF ALL FLESH)

(ALL FOR HIS ONE AND ONLY ONE KINGDOM)

20And, having made peace through THE BLOOD of his cross, by him to reconcile

all things unto himself; (NOT UNTO THE FATHER)

by him, I say, whether they be things

in earth or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled (NOT THE FATHER)

22In the body of his flesh through death,

(WHICH THE FATHER COULD NOT ACHIEVE BY HIMSELF)

to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Proclaimer]

@berean

T8

For you who is “THE WORD”

WHO WAS GOD…?

God bless

Scripture is clear. God is the Father. He is the only true God.

Jesus is the Word of God, but Jesus is the name he took when he partook of flesh.

Scripture tells us that three different ways who God made everything through, they are:

1. The Word
2. The Son
3. Jesus Christ

The thing is, the Bible doesn’t give us a lot of information about the beginning except to say that there was God and the Word.

Before that, well most assume that the Word came from God and was the first to be with God.

The Apostolic fathers taught this, these were the guys who lived shortly after the apostles. They would have been more familiar with the Greek tongue than us. Note: I have scraped quotes from them, so these are not complete texts.

Aristides (ca. 125 A.D)

Now the Christians trace their origin from the Lord Jesus Christ. And He is acknowledged by the Holy Spirit to be the son of the Most High God, who came down from heaven for the salvation of men.(Apology 15).

Justin Martyr (ca. 150 A.D)

For not only among the Greeks did the Word prevail to condemn these things through Socrates, but also among the barbarians were they condemned by the Word Himself, who took shape, and became man, and was called Jesus Christ,

And that you will not succeed is declared by the Word, than whom, after God who begat him, we know there is no ruler more kingly and righteous.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the firstborn of God, was brought forth without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven…

Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word and first-begotten.

And the first power after God the Father and Lord of all is the Word, who is also the Son; and of Him we will, in what follows, relate how He took flesh and became man.

We have been taught that Christ is the firstborn of God

And His Son, who alone is properly called Son, the Word, who also was with Him and was begotten before the works, when at first He created and arranged all things by Him, is called Christ, in reference to His being anointed and God’s ordering all things through Him; this name itself also containing an unknown significance; as also the appellation “God” is not a name, but an opinion implanted in the nature of men of a thing that can hardly be explained. 

For next to God, we worship and love the Word who is out of the unbegotten and ineffable God, since also He became man for our sakes, that, becoming a partaker of our sufferings, He might also bring us healing. 

And God, the Father of the cosmos, who is the perfect intelligence, the truth. And the Word, being His Son, came to us, having put on flesh, revealing both himself and the Father, giving to us in himself resurrection from the dead, and eternal life afterwards. And this is Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord.

Tatian (165 A.D)

And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world

For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him.

Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 175 A.D)

God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bosom, begat him, emitting him along with His own wisdom before all things. He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him

Irenaeus (ca. 185 A.D)

saw the glory of God, and Jesus on His right hand, and exclaimed, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” 

they preached One God, who made all things, and His Son Jesus Christ.

their Creator, who is both God alone, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

who believe in the One and true God, and in Jesus Christ the Son of God

He is not Alone God and Father, Jesus, therefore, will be to them the author and teacher of such transgression, inasmuch as He commanded that One Being should be called Father, thus imposing upon them the necessity of confessing the Creator as their Father,

And therefore One God, the Father is declared, who is above all, and through all, and in all. The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ.

whom the law proclaimed as “God”, the same did Christ point out as the Father,

Clement of Alexandria (ca. 200)

The Son is the power of God, as being the Father’s most ancient Word before the making of all things. 

He is the true only-begotten, the express image of the glory of the Universal King and Almighty Father…. [the only-begotten] the Second Cause. 

 

[carmel]

Hi Lightenup,

YOU: Hebrews 11:3 says nothing about the logos.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the world was framed by

the word of God:(Jesus, the Son of Man to be, ETERNALLY THE SON, WISDOM, ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE FATHER, POWER,  BUT DISTINCT, FUSED BY THE HOLY GHOST, LOVE!)

that from invisible THINGS (ALL IN “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be) : VISIBLE THINGS  (ALL IN”THE WORD’ Jesus, the son of man to be ) might be made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were

ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,

VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:

ALL THINGS were created by him, and for him: 17And he is

BEFORE ALL THINGS, and by him

ALL THINGS CONSISTS.

Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

 

[Lightenup]

Ed,

You said: According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – what say you?

According to Hebrews 11:3, Jesus being the logos of John 1:1 is not addressed one way or the other.

By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

When looking at the expanse, one knows that a man did not make that but something greater than anything that can be seen in creation must have made the world.

[Ed J]

T8 would you also please address my question

I’m working my way back so haven’t come to it yet.

I suspect it was about what you said to Berean, so I will answer that.

The Word became flesh means the Word took on the nature of man and thus became visible.

The Word that was with God is not said to have a body that I can tell anyway.

Hi T8, yes indeed!

Is your view changing from “The Word” being Jesus to “The Word” being the “Spirit of Christ” then ?

[Proclaimer]

Is your view changing from “The Word” being Jesus to “The Word” being the “Spirit of Christ” then ?

My view hasn’t changed since before this forum was created. However, I will say it is quite hard to say for sure because there is not much written for us to say with full confidence how this all works.

First off, Christ is a mystery:

so that their hearts may be encouraged, united in love and into all the wealth of the full assurance of insight into the knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ, in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden. 

+

To me, the least of all the saints, was given this grace: to proclaim the good news of the fathomless riches of Christ to the Gentiles, and to enlighten everyone as to what is the administration of the mystery hidden from the ages by God, who created all things, in order that the many-sided wisdom of God might be made known now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places through the church, according to the purpose of the ages which he carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,

=

Christ is a mystery, but that mystery has been revealed to a degree. Likewise, the Gentiles being partakers of God’s glory was also a mystery. And so is scripture a mystery. Mysteries are revealed to those who seek however.

When you join the dots in scripture, we see that God created all things through the Word that was with him, the Son, and Jesus Christ. If we assume God created all things through the same agent and not two or three, then yes Jesus Christ is the Son and the Word and then it comes as no surprise that when he returns, he is called the Word of God.

The Apostolic fathers certainly had a view that the Word was the first to come from God and that Word came to us in the form of flesh with the name Jesus / Yeshua who was made the Christ by God.

[Berean]

Hi Jodi

You didn’t answer my second question.
which is as follows:

copied – pasted

681
“Hi Jodi

Try to be shorter
and simply answer the question we’re asking you. . .
For you it is YAHWEH the King of Glory, I guess the Father of Jesus! ?(first question ok)

second question
But what event does Psalm 24 announce?

This king of glory comes in through the gates …
The gates of what?

They are eternal gates ! ! !

God bless

[Jodi]

Good Morning Berean,

YOU:

second question
But what event does Psalm 24 announce?

This king of glory comes in through the gates …
The gates of what?

They are eternal gates ! ! !

ME:

You ask what event does Psalm 24 announce, you say the King comes in through the gates..

In my initial post I said, “Jesus is a MAN who our heavenly Father makes into a king of kings who reigns on earth to fulfill our Father’s will, which is to destroy all enemies, and then our heavenly Father himself COMES to dwell with us in His kingdom whereby He is all in all.”

I am sorry for not specifically mentioning the gates, so let me rephrase my statement,

“our heavenly Father himself comes” through the everlasting gates “to dwell with us in His kingdom.”

In my initial post I gave you 6 sentences of my own words and over 50 sentences quoting direct scripture. The words of God that I gave make me confident that my own words speak the same truth.

[Berean]

Edj

you

”

Berean please give me your take on Hebrews 11:3

Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

so, According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – what say you?

Hi Berean,

Instead of you addressing what the last part of Hebrews 11:3 says,
you instead springboard back to ‘what you believe’ as if I don’t know – you said it a million times already

You remind me of Gene, he doesn’t address the question’s I ask either.
But at least you have a “Free Will”, so please address my question this time; OK?

Thank you
Ed J

Me

YAHWEH is one and I do all that He want(Ps.115:3)

Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,

Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,

………1)  by the word of God … (Darby)

………2)  at the command of God,…(Weymouth)

My take is that God create all Things by His word(the WORD OF GOD)

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.(Psalms 33:9)

Some think that God by Himself created all things and others think that it is through Jesus Christ that God created all things.
One fact remains and it is that it is enough for God to speak, to order for the thing to happen.

GOD PRONCE A WORD AND THING EXISTS

But more than that God supports all things with his mighty word;

LIS HEBREUX 1 concerning this
and we’re talking about the Son of God

God who in various times and in various ways once spoke to the fathers through the prophets,
In these last days, he spoke to us through his Son, whom he established heir to all things, by which he also created the worlds;
He is the brilliance of his glory, the image of his person,  and upholding all things by the word of his power,
, when he himself has purged our sins, he sat at the right hand of the Majesty from the top ;

…  and upholding all things with the word of his power,…

JESUS UPHOLD ALL THINGS WITH THE WORD OF HIS POWER

 

Job.4
[4] Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
Pss.37
[17] For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
[24] Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
Pss.41
[12] And as for me, thou upholdest me in mine integrity, and settest me before thy face for ever.

In Colossians 1

17] And he(JESUS CHRIST) is BEFORE all things, and by him all things consist.

“and by him all things consist.”

“consist.”

4921
sunistaw
sunistao
soon-is-tah’-o,
sunistano soon-is-tan’-o, or sunistemi soon-is’-tay-mee from sun – sun 4862 and isthmi – histemi 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute:–approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with).

CONCLUSION

Personnaly I believe that Jesus is THE WORD BY WHOM GOD

SPOKE

COMMAND

So Hebrews 11:3 does not contradict the fact that Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD YESTERDAY, TODAY AND ALWAYS
BECAUSE JESUS IS THE SAME
YESTERDAY
TODAY
ETERNALLY(Hebrews 13:8)

 

Hoping to have answered your question (at least in part).

God bless

 

 

 

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

To summarize the points I made that I then backed with direct scripture in my initial post to answer your question concerning Psalm 24,

1. The kingdom that we enter is our heavenly Father’s Kingdom
2. Our Father’s Kingdom He puts it in the hands of a Son of Man, the root and offspring of David, who is appointed as a king over kings.
3. Our heavenly Father is YHWH whereby He chooses one man from among brethren giving him of His Spirit to perform YHWH’s will to destroy all enemies.
4. This Son of Man reigns on earth until all enemies are destroyed, then our Father YHWH comes down to dwell with us in His KINGdom.

[Jodi]

Hi Berean and All,

Psalm 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

YHWH OF hosts

Jesus is not YHWH but a host of YHWH, he is the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star.

Psalm 103:21 Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

Acts 13:22-23 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fullfil all my will. Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Psalm 84:12 O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.

Psalm 84:3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God. 4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah.

1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my Kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

 

[Berean]

Hi Jodi and all,

Pss.24
[1] The earth is the Lord’s, and its fullness; the world, and those who inhabit it.
[2] For he founded it on the seas, and established it on the waves.
[3] Who will go up on the hill of the Lord? or who will be held in his holy place?
[4] He who has clean hands and a pure heart; who has neither elevated his soul to vanity nor sworn deceitfully.
[5] He will receive the blessing of the Lord and the righteousness of the God of his salvation.
[6] This is the generation of those who seek him, who seek your face, O Jacob. Selah.
[7] Lift your head, oh doors! and you get up, eternal gates; and the king of glory will enter.
[8] Who is this king of glory? The strong and mighty Lord, the mighty Lord in battle.
[9] Lift your head, oh doors! lift them up, eternal gates; and the king of glory will enter.
[10] Who is this king of glory? The Lord of hosts, he is the king of glory. Selah.

first part (verses 1 and 2) summary
The land belongs to JEHOVAH because it is HIM who created it
Part two (verses 3 to 6)
The conditions for climbing towards the holy mountain and living in the holy place: those who have clean hands, a pure heart, who seeks his face;
Part Three (Verses 7-10)
The order is given to open the eternal doors so that the king of glory
enters;
This king is the Lord of hosts
In Hebrews “JEHOVAH” of the armies;

My point of view
This psalm raises us to God who created the earth and all things and it gives us the conditions if we want to one day live with God in his HOLY PLACE.
The King of Glory is the one who showed us the way to the Holy Place of God;
This king of glory whom David describes to us in this psalms is not God the Father, but THE SON OF GOD who descended from the HOLY PLACE on our earth, which was made chair, which led a perfect by faith in his Father, who died on the cross for our sins and who was resurrected by the Spirit of the Father AND WHO ascended into heaven to the Father having brought with him captives (see Ephesians 4:10)
“He who descended is the same who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.” see the rest of Ephesians 4.
IT IS THEREFORE THIS GLORIOUS ARRIVAL FROM CHRIST TO THE HOLY CITY THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THESE VERSES 7 to 10
So, as Christ overcome by faith and that he fulfilled the conditions to access the HOLY PLACE, we too by faith, we can progress in our walk with God and hope one day in the courts of our God.

 

God bless

[Lightenup]

https://youtu.be/56t4B82nZNY

Happy Resurrection Day everybody, enjoy this song, a favorite of mine, that I want to share with you all.

Revelation 5

11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels and living creatures and elders encircling the throne, and their number was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands. 12In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain,

to receive power and riches

and wisdom and strength

and honor and glory and blessing!”

He is risen!

LU

[Berean]

Amen

Worthy is the Lamb !

[Berean]

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[2] (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
[3] Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
[5] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
[6] Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

[Lightenup]

Yes Berean, worthy is the Lamb! Hallelujah! Thank you for the song,

Blessngs,

LU

[carmel]

Hi Lightenup,

HAPPY EASTER:

BETER LATE than NEVER!

YOU:He is risen!

ME: WHO?

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Lightenup]

Thank you Carmel, I hope you had a Happy Resurrection Day as well!

”Who” you asked…who do you think? Read your Bible, 😉

 

[Berean]

Hi Jodi

Revelation 19 shos us that Jesus is “THE WORD OF GOD”

and

THE KING OF KINGS

THE KING/CHIEF/CAPTAIN /PRINCE OF THE HOSTS

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

THIS CONFIRMS WHAT DAVID HAD ANNOUNCED
WITH PSALM 24

Darby’s English Translation
24:10 Who is he, this King of glory? Jehovah of hosts, he is the King of glory. 

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REVELATION 19 AND PSALM 24 IS THAT IN REVELATION 19 JESUS DESCENDS FROM THE SKY WITH THE ARMY OF HIS ANGELS WHILE IN PSALM 24 JESUS GOES UP AND ARRIVES TO THE SKY BEFORE THE ETERNAL DOORS OF THE HOLY CITY HOSTED BY ANGELS

God bless

Brn

 

[Author]

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