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T8 please give me your take on Hebrews 11:3
Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – what say you?
Hi Berean,
You didn’t answer my question, but I will answer yours:
“Yes”
Tdj
My answer is also :
Yes
And saying that, I realize that I am far from perfect.
on the other hand tdj
I must say that I find it hard to me believe that someone could have the “mind” that was in Jesus and not to see that He preexisted and that he is God. But I recognize that it is the state of mind that matters most in terms of exchanges between us.
edj … Did you feel that I would have disrespected you or that I was condemning you?If so please forgive me.
God bless you
What most characterized Jesus was his humility and gentleness
and he is the one I want to look like …
pray for each other and for me too
I also pray for all of you.
God bless youedj … Did you feel that I would have disrespected you or that I was condemning you?
If so please forgive me.
Hi Berean,
Engage what I say then…
Darby Bible Translation
By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.Weymouth New Testament
Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – do you agree that is what Hebrews 11:3 implies?
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
My understanding is that Jesus being the “Word of God”, and being God , This is HIM God used to create all things.
It would therefore be the Son of God who spoke the CREATING WORDS in Genesis 1
His words ALSO support everything he has created. ..
see Hebrews 1
and who, being the reflection of his glory and the imprint of his person, and supporting all things with his mighty word, made the purification of sins and sat at the right of divine majesty in the highest places,His words which are Spirit and life have the power to support us too when we believe in the Father and in Him ALSO with all our. (John 14: 1)
Blessings
Hi Edj
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;and
one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
ALL THINGS COME FROM GOD
THROUGH THE SON OF GOD WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD IN CREATION AND IN REDEMPTION
Gof bless
If Jesus is God, then he is his own Father and his own son.
Peter received a revelation to who Jesus was and there was no mention that he was or is God.
In Matthew 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.Hi t8
You
“If Jesus is God, then he is his own Father and his own son.”
“It says that the universe was created through THE Son. (Colossians 1:15-16)”
Me
to create the universe you have to be God but not necessarily God the Father.
Now, to be the God of John 1: 1, in addition to being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, to be CHIEF and above all and all.
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.
Jesus said:
the Father is greater than me.
Jesus did not speak of him as the Son of man but of the divine Son of God begotten of the Father.
In other words, the Father is greater than the Son because He is before the Son.
He is taller in age.I hope it helps
I hope this helps Berean.
John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Hi Carmel,
Thanks for trying to be concise 🙂
Are you aware that the word translated as “angel” is also translated as “messenger?” It can refer to a human messenger as well as to heavenly messengers.
Blessings on this Good Friday,
LU
@t8
You said to Berean “If Jesus is God, then he is his own Father and his own son.”
t8, if the original living eternal One beget a Son asexually, then that original One manifests Himself as two at the moment the reproductive process began, in a father and a son. Both equally having the eternal nature of the original One. If you took the time to study an example of binary fission, you can see how this can be possible within creation. I do believe it would help make many things more clear for you.
Here are a couple videos on the process:
DNA Replication https://youtu.be/TNKWgcFPHqw
Binary Fission https://youtu.be/OAcz-tFGY0Y
All things were made by HIM and without him was not any thing made that was made.
BY HIM = BY A DIVINE PERSON
WHO IS THIS WORD/DIVINE PERSON THAT MADE ALL THINGS. ..?
THE HOLY SPIRIT ?
A WORD SPOKEN BY GOD BEFORE THE WORD BECAME?
ANSWER:
HEBREWS 1
God, ……..
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ……Berean…..the word “by” used there means “for the reason of”, Jodi and I have posted the meaning of that word as used in our scriptures so many times, but you fail to understand it .
Greek ….. (dia)….. a primary preposition “DENOTING THE CHANNEL OF AN ACT”; THROUGH (in very wide applications, local, “CAUSAL” or OCCASIONAL), In composition retains the same general import: – after, always, among, at, to avoid because of (that), briefly, by, FOR (CAUSE) ….FORE, from, in, BY OCCASION OF, BY REASON OF, FORE SAKE, that, thereby, therefore, x through, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (in), in composition it retains the same general import.
Now there it is please not the upper case words, and think on them, that little word (dia) can be quite confusing, and must be understood with the rest of scriptures, and if you do you will see that it’s real import into that text should “for the sake of, or, for the reason of, or, for the purpose of.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
thank you Gene
But it seems to me that with “by” in John 1 it makes sense better than “for”.
the world needs to know that Jesus is OMNIPOTENT
and that it is by his word that everything subsists. (Col. 1, / Hebrew 1 / John 1)
All the bibles translate “by” in John, Hebrews, Colossians. .
In Colossians we have in verse 16 last sentence “by” and “for”all things were created by him, and for him:
“for”
eiV
eis
ice
a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial sentences: – (abundant-) ly, against, among, as, at, (back-) ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for (intention, purpose), fore, + forth, in (among, at, unto, -so much that, -to), to the intention that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-) on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore (-unto), throughout, til, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-) until (-to), … ward, (where-) fore, with. Often used in composition with the same general import, but only with verbs (etc.) expressing motion (literally or figuratively).God bless
Gene, do you realize that it is the lens that you have in your glasses that chooses what “by” means. Just because you say the word “by” means such and such doesn’t automatically mean that the writer means the same thing as you say it does. Do you realize that everyone’s lenses are in differing degrees of cloudiness? Do you have an ounce of sense that realizes maybe your lens isn’t as clear as you might think?
If so, you would do well to consider that you may be wrong and seek the truth with an open heart and mind. Test all things.
Holding on to and proclaiming a wrong opinion and then NOT admitting it when you are proven wrong is not good for you or those who you try to teach/correct. When those you try to teach/correct here see that you do not admit when you have errored, you lose respect and what you proclaim next that builds on that error is just something that has sand as a foundation. It does not stand when shaken. Do you see that?
For instance, someone on here was trying to correct another by pointing out that the meaning of Lord in a specific verse meant Adonia when come to find out the word Lord wasn’t even in that specific verse nor anywhere in the chapter containing the verse. When that was pointed out to the member who clearly made that error, he never acknowledged his error. Now would you want to learn or receive correction from someone like that??? Probably not.
Blessings, LU
Good Morning LU,
Thanks for your reply
YOU:
What you never seem to mention is that in order to walk in the fullness of the spirit from the Father, we need to be filled with the spirit of the Son. It is not possible to receive the fullness of the spirit of the Father without having the spirit of the Son also.
The spirit of the Father cannot be given without the spirit of the Son because they are interdependent with each other, inseperable. Their spirits are united as the one Holy Spirit.
ME: You aren’t making sense to me, given what scripture teaches.
Jesus isn’t the Holy Spirit, he RECEIVED it according to a promise, as do we.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost.
THIS JESUS, in Acts 2 is the seed of David who is said to have been raised up a savior for Israel, also according to a promise. THIS JESUS the son of David upon being raised from the dead is begotten by God where THIS JESUS, David’s son, becomes an eternal Son unto God.
Jesus’s spirit is filled with the Holy Spirit upon his resurrection where he is begotten by God, our resurrection is the same as his, where we are to be filled with the SAME Spirit that Jesus himself RECEIVED. Don’t forget we are JOINT heirs with Christ in being an heir of the Father, and those that are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God.
LU, when I am told by Jesus that he is the Son of a HUMAN returning in his Father’s glory, I don’t equate that with Jesus existing as the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah’s prophecies are not completed regarding the son of Jesse. The Spirit is upon this Son of Man where he will judge the world, doing so not by his own eyes and ears. Why we read in Acts 17 that a man who God ordained will be our judge. It is ludicrous to me given scripture to ever equate Jesus to be YHWH or the Spirit of YHWH.
I believe what scripture says, Jesus is the son of Jesse who has YHWH’s Spirit upon him, where YHWH directs all of his ways.
t8, if the original living eternal One beget a Son asexually, then that original One manifests Himself as two at the moment the reproductive process began, in a father and a son. Both equally having the eternal nature of the original One.
Are you saying the original God split into two equal parts or are you saying the original God begat another who is the Son and/or Word? Or something else. I remember in the past, you taught a binity a Godhead comprising two equal beings.
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