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Quote (david @ Nov. 09 2012,12:26) Quote …..so they well know [it was jesus] but did not physicly recognized him, this was not the first enconter , and for that reason they did not dear to ask WHO ARE YOU,
because if they would have Jesus would have ask them well did you not find fish were I told you ???they add a dillema to solve and they solve it by not asking who he was,
Terra rica, so, you are saying, just like me, that they knew it was Jesus, but did not physically recognize him. (Hence, this solves e puzzle)
So, terra rica, why did they not physically recognize him, while simultaneously knowing it was him?
DYES to first question,
you give me the answer I wait .
Quote (david @ Nov. 09 2012,20:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 10 2012,13:32)
Luke 24:32
They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
For the 75th Tim, the difference is, in this account, in the very same sentence, we are told they “knew” it was The Lord. They knew it was Jesus! Peter, jumping into the water knew it was Jesus.They KNEW it was Jesus
So, why would they ever have to ask: who are you, if they knew that?
Just like the two in my scripture KNEW it was Jesus from the burning in their hearts. They “knew it” (had a strong inkling), yet didn't bring themselves to ask if that inkling was correct.Quote (david @ Nov. 09 2012,20:38) They recognized him by the very familiar miracle. Who else would it be?
Okay, let's go with that conclusion: The recognized him by the miracle, but not by appearance, because he didn't look like Jesus to them.Now what?
Does it prove that he was a spirit being running around LYING to his disciples by saying he WASN'T a spirit being?
Or does Kerwin's scripture shed light on the matter by attesting to the fact that God kept them from recognizing him on a different occasion?
k
Lk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.KJV
how do you know that it is God that did it
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 10 2012,13:06) k Lk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.KJV
how do you know that it is God that did it
T,I am familiar with the story of Balaam and the angel.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2012,17:36) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 10 2012,13:06) k Lk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.KJV
how do you know that it is God that did it
T,I am familiar with the story of Balaam and the angel.
Kso you are interpreting the action of evil in the same way you do the actions of truth,
you are living in the dark Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 10 2012,13:35) Quote (david @ Nov. 08 2012,20:57) And on a side note, no one seems to be providing any solution to this puzzle that makes any kind of sense based on the fact that they “knew it was The Lord.”
YOU included, David.Your theory that Jesus was a spirit being who materialized a body they didn't recognize offers the same exact conclusion as God keeping their eyes from recognizing him.
It still doesn't answer how they KNEW him but didn't want to ask who he was.
Mike,Your scenario:
Jesus had the same body he died with, same face, same body, same voice probably, same body that he offered as a sacrifice and ransom. He got it back. Ok.
So, he yells to them to throw their net in the sea. N the miracle being accomplished, Peter, says “it is The Lord” and begins swimming ashore.
They all come ashore. Jesus has the same face, same body as he had all along.
On coming ashore, not one of them had the courage to ask “who are you” because they knew it was The Lord. Clearly, they knew it was The Lord from the miracle. They knew it was The Lord before they came close to him. And when they got close to him, they still knew it was The Lord, yet, THEY HAD A DESIRE TO ASK WHO HE WAS BUT WERE AFRAID TO, knowing it was Jesus.
The problem: how can they simultaneously know it is The Lord, but want to ask: who are you? This is the third appearance to the disciples.
My scenario: Jesus, offers his body and human life as a sacrifice, a ransom, a price paid. He gave that up. He was raised a spirit, and materialized different bodies on these occasions, rather than his old body, to confirm the fact that he did die, and was actually resurrected, as a spirit.
IF this scenario was correct, then of course they would know it was Jesus upon seeing the miracle, come ashore, see what appears to be a man, but, not with the face of Jesus' sacrificed body. They recognized him from his action, yet, here is the face of someone they have never seen before. “Who are you” is a reasonable question. Yet, given the miracle, knowing and believing it was The Lord, no one could bring themself to ask: who are you.
So, in my scenario, it fits. It fits with what actually happened in this account. It fits with words like “offered his body” and “ransom” and “sacrifice” and it fits with him being raised a spirit.
It doesn't seem to fit with the account of them being frightened and him saying he wasn't a “spirit.” (Understood, to mean “apparition.”). I know that the word isn't translated this way anywhere else in the bible. But, all the other things indicate that he was raised a spirit. I guess I will now begin to look at that other account.
All those things you said also fit with God preventing the disciples' eyes from recognizing Jesus – like He did in Luke 24:16.
DAVID
Quote So, in my scenario, it fits. It fits with what actually happened in this account. It fits with words like “offered his body” and “ransom” and “sacrifice” and it fits with him being raised a spirit. YOU ARE WICHFUL THINKING,
YOU PICK AND CHOSE YOUR SCRIPTURES
YOU NEVER ANSWER MY PRESENTATION IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS TOPIC ,WHY
David,
I do not see where they were afraid to ask but perhaps you are concluding that from the situation.
Let's speculate that is true. Who or what are they afraid of?
This speculation seems unimportant me at this time but perhaps you see a way it can be used to teach us in the path of righteousness.
David………Jesus plainly say a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see “I” have. That alone should tell you Jesus was not a Spirit “being of any kind”. Not to mention where Paul said ” if the spirit of him that raised Christ Jesus from the GRAVE be in You “IT” shall “ALSO” quicken (bring to life) Your MORTAL BODIES now please tell me what is being brought back to life, is it not a Mortal body a dead “body” that is being talked about there?
peace and love to you and your………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 11 2012,05:05) DAVID Quote So, in my scenario, it fits. It fits with what actually happened in this account. It fits with words like “offered his body” and “ransom” and “sacrifice” and it fits with him being raised a spirit. YOU ARE WICHFUL THINKING,
YOU PICK AND CHOSE YOUR SCRIPTURES
YOU NEVER ANSWER MY PRESENTATION IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS TOPIC ,WHY
Which presentation?Terrarica, I am basing this belief on about 20 scriptures. Yes, there is the one scripture that seems to state the opposite. I am not discounting it. But similarly, you should not discount the other scriptures. I have been meaning to do a lot more research on this.
Quote (david @ Nov. 13 2012,03:04) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 11 2012,05:05) DAVID Quote So, in my scenario, it fits. It fits with what actually happened in this account. It fits with words like “offered his body” and “ransom” and “sacrifice” and it fits with him being raised a spirit. YOU ARE WICHFUL THINKING,
YOU PICK AND CHOSE YOUR SCRIPTURES
YOU NEVER ANSWER MY PRESENTATION IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS TOPIC ,WHY
Which presentation?Terrarica, I am basing this belief on about 20 scriptures. Yes, there is the one scripture that seems to state the opposite. I am not discounting it. But similarly, you should not discount the other scriptures. I have been meaning to do a lot more research on this.
NO dAVID ONLY hEBREW 10;10 SAYS IN ALL BIBLE THE SAME THINGMT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
BUT THOSE TWO SCRIPTURES ARE ALSO IN ALL BIBLES AND THEY ARE TWO NOT ONE AND IT HIS FROM CHRIST NOT FROM PAUL
SO CHRIST WAS RIGHT WEN HE SAID FLESH MEANS NOTHING,
Hi David,
As Pierre has once again pointed out, there is that ONE scripture that speaks of Jesus sacrificing a body – while many other ones speak of him sacrificing his life.
You understand it as “his human life”, but that's not specifically mentioned.
You say you have 20 scriptures against 1, right? Well, as I pointed out early in this thread, I myself used to use those same 20 scriptures before I adjusted my belief. And it wasn't just Luke 24:39 that caused the adjustment – it was the combination of that 1 crystal clear scripture and the realization that none of those other 20 scriptures necessarily teach what I first thought they taught. They are all open to speculation – and can all have many different interpretations.
What we should do now is discuss those 20 scriptures, ONE AT A TIME, and see if any particular one of them can ONLY mean that Jesus was raised as a spirit being. If there is the possibility that one of them can be interpreted in a way different than the way YOU are interpreting it, we should cast that one aside and move on to the next.
I'm sure we'll eventually find that you started off believing Christ was raised as a spirit, and that is why those 20 scriptures automatically proved it to you – whether or not they truly prove it.
David,
Quote My scenario: Jesus, offers his body and human life as a sacrifice, a ransom, a price paid. He gave that up. He was raised a spirit, and materialized different bodies on these occasions, rather than his old body, to confirm the fact that he did die, and was actually resurrected, as a spirit. I do not believe that there is anyone here that debates that a body is buried a perishable body and raised an imperishable body.
david
tell me, what was offered, was it the life or the body
the sacrifices of animal involved the pouring of the live(the blood) out of it ,and then they who are authorized eat the mead ,so the real sacrifice his the live of the animal because without killing it , you can not eat it right
so it is Christ sacrifice ;by willingly go to those who are looking to take away his live by pouring his blood out of it ,
so no one can dispose of a body unless it' s live is removed from it ,right ?JN 6:51 “ I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
JN 6:57 “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.SO TO UNLESS CHRIST DIED NO ONE COULD EAT HIS FLESH ,OR BENEFIT FROM HIS SACRIFICE IN OTHER WORDS .
so what you think his the sacrifice that Christ made
scriptures also says that his body will not see decay ( just as the body of Moses was never found ,but he was not resurrected )
Here is one for the trinitarians:
John 4:24 God is Spirit[/quote]; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Luke 24:39-Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Just my two cents again!
Later.I can't believe I am the one finding counter arguments for my own arguments.
In John 2:18-22, after he cleansed the temple, Jesus was having a heated encounter with the religious Jews of his day.
“What sign do You show to us, since you do these things? Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.’ Then the Jews said, ‘It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and You will raise it up in three days?’ But He was speaking of the temple of His body”.
According to this passage, what did Jesus say that he was going to raise?
“His body.”
This is a scripture that seems to counter act the line of reasoning i was using on the scripture that says he offered his body.
Quote tell me, what was offered, was it the life or the body Terrarica, as you know, one scripture specifically says he offered his body as a sacrifice. Of course, he gave up his (I would say “fleshly”) life.
You seem to want to make it an either/or problem. He offered his (human) life, FOR HE WAS A HUMAN. And, as scripture also specifically and directly says, he offered his (human) body.
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