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hi GB,
You think the Spirit of God is in seven parts and separate from God in front of His throne?
Think again.
Nick,
Scripture teaches us that Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body and somewhat later ascended to heaven. There is nothing written that the composition of his body changed and yet you believe it did.
Scripture teaches that Thomas demanded to touch the prints on Jesus’ wrists and put his hand into Jesus’ side and yet you assume he was asking to touch open wounds on Jesus even though he knew Jesus had healed many.
In short you go beyond what is written though perhaps to the extent Gene does.
Hi KW,
We know we will be like to him.
We know that we will be changed but you do not think he was ?
You assume that when Jesus said to put his hand into his side he was not being truthful?
Now the Lord is the Spirit.
Nick,
Hi KW,
We know we will be like to him.
We know that we will be changed but you do not think he was ?
You assume that when Jesus said to put his hand into his side he was not being truthful?
Now the Lord is the Spirit.
You already know different than you say with these words and yet you never the less say them.
Jesus changed from a mortal flesh and blood body to an immortal flesh and bone body.
The seed that is planted is not the seed that arises. Jesus body was planted as mortal and rose as immortal.
If you believe there is a resurrection of the dead then you believe that Jesus’ body is an example of that resurrection.
I know if I poke my finger into my neighbors side I am not punching a hole through his side.
You know these things but you are locked into a certain mindset and have been unable escape it.
Hi KW,
“Jesus changed from a mortal flesh and blood body to an immortal flesh and bone body.”
Really?
Any scriptures?
Hi KW,
The physical resurrection of Jesus was to fulfil the prophecies made about him in scripture.
You assume he has never received the new body we are promised?
Hi KW,
So you think Thomas never put his hand INTO the side of Jesus because you assume it would be healed?
So the proof that it was the body that had been the one he died in was not there at all.
Haggai 1:13
13 Then Haggai, the LORD’s messenger, gave this message of the LORD to the people: “I am with you,” declares the LORD.Thus the prophet Haggai was called God’s messenger (angel). Further, “Malachi” is not a real name, but means “messenger” or “angel”.
Malachi 3:1
1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.Almost without exception this passage has been interpreted to refer to two messengers – John the Baptist as the first messenger (or angel) “preparing the way” and the Lord Jesus Christ as the second “messenger (or angel) of the covenant”. It is also quoted in Matt.11:10.
The word for angel (messenger) in the OT is mal’ak {mal-awk’} – hence Malachi.
The scripture below talks of a messenger who forgives sins and also has God’s name in him.
Exodus 23:20-23
20 “See, I am sending an angel (messenger) ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared.
21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.
22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.
23 My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out.So it seems messengers are angels whether they are man, son of God, cherub, or seraph. Therefore it seems entirely possible (but not conclusive) in this context that Jesus could have been the Angel of the LORD, as he is the messenger of the LORD and the Word of God.
T8…..Then does it apply to JESUS, WHERE IT SAYS IN Heb 2:5, “FOR UNTO THE ANGELS HAS HE NOT PUT IN SUBJECTION THE WORLD TO COME, WHEREOF WE SPEAK, DOES THIS APPLY TO JESUS ALSO, seening you believe him to be an angel. AND IF YOU READ Heb 2:6-11, YOU WILL FIND IT IS MANKIND THAT THE WORLD TO COME WILL BE IN SUBJECTION TO. Jesus has to still be human being to even qualify to be in control of the world to come. Jesus was AND STILL is a “SON OF MAN”. Just as he said “when the SON OF MAN comes will he find faith on the earth”, and again “know you not that you shall judge angels”.
I believe Jesus has the same body he was raised with, his body never saw “corruption” because he never sinned, GOD said, the soul that sins it shall “die,” JESUS DID NOT SIN, so while he did die, yet his body never saw corruption, like the rest of mankind does, he was completely restored just as he was . Had Adam never sinned he would still be alive with the same body he had even to this day, he was blocked from taking of the tree of life which would have kept him living just as he was. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
T8,
Malachi 3:1
1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.I can see your point here but Exodus 23:20-23 could be any messenger, even Moses and Joshua. I do not think the context allows the later but I have not looked at it yet.
Deuteronomy 18:15-18 speaks of the Anointed coming in the future.
Gene,
Consider reading t8’s post to Mike as you may understand his viewpoint a little better and so address it.
Nick….No, i don’t think and say there “ARE” SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD , SCRIPTURE SAYS IT. THOSE ARE “NOT” MY WORDS YOU ARE CONTENDING WITH BUT WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURES IN THREE PLACES, SO YOU EITHER BELIEVE THEM OR NOT,THATS YOUr CHOICE. BUT CHANGING THEM TO MEET YOUR WHAT YOU THINK, IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS, are we to BELIEVE what is written in SCRIPTURE OR YOU?
peace and love to you and yours. …………………gene
Kerwin…….I HAVE READ IT, AND I KNOW WHAT T8 BELIEVES, AS WELL AS MIKE, BUT THE QUESTION IS DOES THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED MEAN WHAT THEY SAY OR NOT? IF THEY MEAN WHAT THEY SAY THEN JESUS IS NO AN ANGEL OF ANY KIND, OR HE COULD NOT QUILIFY TO BE A RULER IN THE WORLD TO COME.
MANKIND IS THE HIGHEST OF ALL OF GOD’S CREATION, MANKIND IS THE “ONLY” ONE GOD HAS PUT “ALL” HIS CREATION UNDER. Just as Heb 2: 6-11 says.
The whole concept of man being an inferior being is pure garbage according to scripture.
peace and love to you and yours. ………………..gene
Gene,
T8’s argument is that Jesus is a messenger and not an angel. He has not made it clear whether he considers that messenger to be a human being that preexisted his conception or a spiritual being that preexists his condition. I find the later possibility a dodge to avoid conflicting with passages that make it clear Jesus is not an angel, even though he is a messenger. The earlier is a different matter.
Even in English, human messengers of God can be called angels even though I have been taught to associate the word with the natives of heaven.
Gene,
Hebrews 2:6-11 is only speaking of Jesus. In the context of where it is cited from it does speak of humanity being put the creations of earth. Certain Jewish use of Scriptures of that age can be confusing to us of this age.
Hi GB,
Jesus was made lower than the angels.heb2
You think all men are greater than him and the highest of God’s creations?
T8 said:
So it seems messengers are angels whether they are man, son of God, cherub, or seraph. Therefore it seems entirely possible (but not conclusive) in this context that Jesus could have been the Angel of the LORD, as he is the messenger of the LORD and the Word of God.
Both the Hebrew and Greek words mean “messenger”. That’s it – messenger. If you read the entire Young’s Literal Translation, you won’t find the word “angel”, because it isn’t a scriptural word. It is an English word that is substituted for the Hebrew or Greek word that means “messenger”. And it is only substituted in when the English translator DECIDES that the “messenger” in question is a spirit entity.
So the only question so far is: IS/WAS Jesus a “messenger” of God? The answer is obviously yes, and so Jesus was A messenger.
Next up: IS/WAS Jesus a spirit entity? The answer from scripture is yes, although some believe Jesus remains a flesh human being in heaven – a place where spirit entities like God dwell.
So if it is YES to Jesus being “a messenger”, and YES to Jesus being “a spirit entity”, then it has to be YES to Jesus being AN angel.
There are no two ways around it. If Jesus is both a messenger and a spirit being, Jesus is an “angel” of God.
And that means the only thing left is to decide whether or not “angels” (spirit messengers of God) are identified as “gods” in the scriptures. And the answer to that one is also a resounding YES – many times in many different scriptures.
Consider Psalm 8:5, where David told God He had made mankind a “little lower than the gods“. Which “gods” did YHWH make us a little lower than? Of course those “gods” were YHWH’s spirit sons, whom we often call “angels”. In fact, when translating the Hebrew into Greek for the LXX, the translators knew that by “gods”, David was referring to “angels” – and translated it as “a little lower than the angels”.
Of course there are many, many other scriptures where spirit messengers of God are called “gods”. So to sum up: “Spirit messenger” = “angel” = “god”.
And to t8’s point about not liking “a god”, all I can say is that if Jesus is “a spirit messenger”, then Jesus is “an angel”, and therefore “a god”.
peace and strength, fellas
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