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@t8,
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
Is the writer of Hebrews implying that being reminded of your sins year after year is a evil occurrence?
If not, then what do you believe he means?
K
T,
My claim is that there is forgiveness under the Law of Moses and essential point of the evidence I presented is “and they will be forgiven”. In other words if they make the sacrifices as the Law commands they will be forgiven their sins. That is what I claimed.
did I deny this in my quote to you ? NO, but those sins are not the same as the sin transmitted by Adam for which Christ came to save us from
for no one can pay back the ransom for his life says scriptures
T,
No sin was translated from Adam to anyone else as the one that sins is the one that is responsible for that sin. We do suffer the consequences of Adam’s sin as can be seen from the fact we do not live in paradise. Another is that each member of mankind became a slave to sin as a result of Adam’s sin. If we obey all of Jesus’ teaching then we will be truly set free from being a slave to sin and instead we will like God in true righteousness and holiness.
We all die Kerwin. The soul that sins will die. Do we start to die the moment we are born? If so, then the saying might be true. ‘We are born in sin’. If we were born without sin, then we would be like Jesus before his anointing (perhaps) or like Adam before he sinned.
Is the writer of Hebrews implying that being reminded of your sins year after year is a evil occurrence?
If not, then what do you believe he means?
Without thinking too heavily on this, the first thing that sprung to mind is this:
“WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION OF SINS!”
If it was a yearly ritual, then the reminder of sin was there every time the shedding of blood occurred.
Like an outstanding debt a payment is made against the interest. When you pay that interest it reminds you of the total outstanding debt, (reminded of your sins as you said above). And why is it like paying the interest, because when you pay interest, the debt is being serviced. If you do not pay, then the debt collector calls the debt in and you have to give up your soul as payment. (The soul that sins will die).
But with Christ, it was finished. One time for all. Debt cancelled. Don’t need to worry about the outstanding debt Just don’t incur new debt and when you do, you have a covenant with the debt collector who is faithful to cancel any new debt incurred, so long as you do not abuse his grace, it will not be counted against you.
How often was this shedding of blood? A quick google search rendered no results for me. If yearly, then makes sense.
K
No sin was translated from Adam to anyone else
unless you tell me why all die in Adam ? and if all die because of his sin , then what is your argument for ? to deceive ?
scriptures are clear on this
T,
Morality of the world and everything in it was the effect of Adam’s sin but those in Christ can still undergo the first death. The second death happens to angels while those that were faithful to God under the Law but not in Christ will not experience it.According to Jesus in 8:34 anyone that sins is a servant of sin. He also states previously that he has come to set his hearers free. I believe his words.
@t8,
“WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION OF SINS!”
That is a reference to the idea the soul is in the blood and that the soul of an animal is sacrificed as remission for the soul of a human being. Looking at it the price had to be paid year after year and Jesus sacrificed his sinless soul once for all mankind and even then Hades/Sheol could not keep it.
As an important aside, The account of his crusifiction does not testify he shed a lot of blood though he might well have shed more if he had been living when the soldier shoved the spear in his side. His soul did descend to Hades but was not left there.
This makes it look like his purpose in sacrificing himself was to save animals from the first death as forgiveness was available already.
K
T,
Morality of the world and everything in it was the effect of Adam’s sin but those in Christ can still undergo the first death. The second death happens to angels while those that were faithful to God under the Law but not in Christ will not experience it.According to Jesus in 8:34 anyone that sins is a servant of sin. He also states previously that he has come to set his hearers free. I believe his words.
there are two kind of sins ;1)the sin transmitted through the sin of Adam,what result in death for us all .
then 2) the sins we commit as of our action in the flesh and our spirit ;this sort of sin Jesus and his disciples and God request that we stop doing them ,for those sins make as slave of sin ;
this is a very elementary doctrine ;if you do not agree with this please read your bible and come up with scriptures that really supports your opinion
I have to agree with T.
Jesus dealt with sin once and for all. Not just each individual sin that was temporarily covered through the shedding of the blood of animals, but sin fullstop. There was no way under the law that all of mankind could be saved from the effects of Adam’s sin. I guess God foreknew his plan and worked with those under the Law as if Christ was going to die for mankind.
So he offered a way for them to cover their own sins on a temporary or ongoing basis, but then paid the full price at the right time.
As it says: For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
This is testament to the fact that there was no way that those born under Adam (even with Law and the shedding of blood) could gain eternal life. Sin brings death. One sin brings death. All under Adam will surely die, they will lose their soul. But God saved our souls through Christ.
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls. (1Peter 1:9)
Paul even rebuked the Galatians for going back to the Law after such a great grace was shown them.
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? (Galatians 3:1-2)
carmal,
Your words contain a red herring fallacy.
Kerwin,
WHAT’S THE USE OF SAYING THAT UNLESS YOU EXPLAIN, AND PROVE OTHERWISE?
WHERE SPECIFICALLY SCRIPTURES SAY THAT
SOULS ARE ERADICATED?
THE PHRASE
ETERNAL FIRE, AND ALL OTHER SIMILAR PHRASES DO NOT MEAN THAT SOULS WOULD BE ERADICATED, OR NEVER BE RELEASED FROM HELL!
THE FACT THAT HELL DEFINITELY ENDS SINCE IT WOULD BE OF NO USE!
THE WORD ” ETERNAL” IS A REFERENCE TO GOD!
THE FACT THAT GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE, WHICH CONSUMES AND PURIFY SOULS, NOT DESTROY OR ERADICATE SOULS!
THIS WOULD MAKE GOD INFERIOR TO EVIL!
NOT OMNIPOTENT!
GOD HATES SIN,
BUT NOT HELL THE FACT THAT HIS PRESENCE IS THERE! THEREFORE LOVE IS ALSO THERE!
AND ALSO THAT HE HIMSELF WOULD HAVE ESTABLISHED, SOMETHING LIKE HELL,AND THE ERADICATION OF SOULS, A KIND OF SUICIDE, WHICH HE HIMSELF HAVE NOT THE ABILITY TO MAKE HOLY, WHICH IS A COMPLETE CONTRADICTION TO:
LOVE YOUR ENEMY! AND HE HIMSELF ERADICATES HIS ENEMIES?
DO GOOD THAT HATES YOU! AND HE HIMSELF DOES BAD?
THE RAIN COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN FOR BOTH GOOD AND EVIL! AND HE HIMSELF HAS NO SOLUTION FOR THE EVIL?
I CAME FOR THE SICK! AND THROUGH HIS DEATH THE SICK REMAIN SICK?
I CAME FOR THE LOST SHEEP! AND THE LOST REMAIN LOST?
KNOW THIS:
THAT ALTHOUGH HEAVEN AND EARTH WOULD END,
IN THE TRUTH ALL SOMEHOW, WOULD REMAIN TO THE LEAST DETAIL!
DUE TO THE FACT THAT WHATEVER GOD CREATED SPIRITUALLY IS ETERNAL LIKE HIMSELF IS! SINCE ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM AND ALL FOR HIM!
Isaiah 11:6The wolf shall dwell with the lamb: and the leopard shall lie down with the kid: the calf and the lion, and the sheep shall abide together, and a little child shall lead them.
7The calf and the bear shall feed: their young ones shall rest together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp: and the weaned child shall thrust his hand into the den of the basilisk.
YOUR OWN GOD IS A FALLACY!
MINE IS A TRUE LOVING GOD! LOVE ITSELF!
SO EVEN IF IT TAKES AN ENDLESS TIME,
GOD WOULD SAVE ALL!
OTHERWISE HE WILL NEVER BE IN THE TRUTH:
ALL IN ALL
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel,
I said it so you could go over them and find the red herring and remove it. It was my assumption you wanted to make sound and valid points. If you do not care whether or not you do then why should I waste anymore words in attempt to help you.
So I get from what you say here you are a universalist? is that right? that is all shall eventually be saved by the love of God?
Since God is love and eternal and what he creates in love is also eternal?
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