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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2013,07:31) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:36) Mike, I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other gods are gods only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is god because he is god.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no God but him.
Okay Kerwin,Let's re-write your statement WITHOUT capital letters, and using the word “elohim” instead of “god”.
Mike,
I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other elohim are elohim only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is elohim because he is elohim.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no elohim but him.
Do you see now how the two statements contradict each other? You say there is no elohim but Jehovah, but then explain WHY those others ARE elohim. It's like you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Mike,Those that received the law are gods because they are like unto Jehovah who is the law.
kings are gods because they are like Jehovah in reigning.
judges are gods because they are like Jehovah in judging.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 25 2013,16:36) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 25 2013,18:10) Any thoughts from anyone?
The Holy Spirit of God cannot be the Son of God, for the Son of God was once said to have been filled with joy THROUGH the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit of God descended upon the Son of God.
God sent His Son to die as atonement for our sins – something the Holy Spirit cannot do – especially at the hands of mere mortal men.
Shall I go on? Shall I post the scriptures?
Mark 1
10 As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”12 At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert………
2B, do you think God said, “You are my Son” to the Holy Spirit that descended upon Jesus? Or does the context indicate that Jesus is that Son?
And what does it mean that the Spirit “sent him” out into the desert?
2B, I know you are searching for truth. But I believe you are barking up the wrong tree with this one. Many scriptures contradict your claim that the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,Acts2:33-34 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses”Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having RECEIVED from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
Php2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and GIVEN him a NAME which is Above every NAME That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.
God GAVE him the NAME LORD.
Peace brother…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,11:08) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2013,08:58) [Paul] was not talking about “all” knowledge in a general sense because not even Jesus had that.
Really Gene?John 21:17
……..Lord, you know all things………So Jesus didn't LITERALLY know ALL things, even though Peter clearly said he did? I guess Peter was speaking EMPHATICALLY, huh? Just like Paul was speaking EMPHATICALLY when he said the disciples had “ALL knowledge”, right?
Gene, can Jehovah be the “God OF gods” if there truly exist no other gods but Him? YES or NO?
Mike……….Then why did Jesus say no one knew the day He would return, no not the angels nor the Son of MAN (Jesus himself) because the Father has Kept it to himself. Pehaps Peter had something else inmind when said that , but in any case i will believe what Jesus himself said.So did Jesus Know “all” things obvisouly not from his own words. If he was a God as you assume He could not have grown in the knowledge of God either because he would already have had it, God would not have had to Show him what to say and how to say it either, if he already knew all thing himself.
Mow please go back and answer all the Yes or No questions on page 170 i listed, seems T8 can't ,maybe you can.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Abe………..Good Post brother, is obvious if God Exhulted Jesus to his right Hand after his resurection, he was not there before or the scripture would have said he returned to where he was before. But no scripture says that Jesus “PREEXISTED at the right hand of God before his resurection.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………gene
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 25 2013,19:57) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Do you believe God said “You are my Son” to the Spirit who descended upon Jesus and led him into the wilderness? Or do you think He said those words about Jesus himself?
I believe that he said those words to the flesh Son who was called by the name of Yahshua. BUT the Holy Spirit's name could also have been Yahshua (If you follow)
So your understanding is that God sent his Holy Spirit Son to descend upon His flesh Son, and then one Son led the other Son into the wilderness?Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2013,07:31) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:36) Mike, I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other gods are gods only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is god because he is god.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no God but him.
Okay Kerwin,Let's re-write your statement WITHOUT capital letters, and using the word “elohim” instead of “god”.
Mike,
I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other elohim are elohim only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is elohim because he is elohim.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no elohim but him.
Do you see now how the two statements contradict each other? You say there is no elohim but Jehovah, but then explain WHY those others ARE elohim. It's like you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Mike,Those that received the law are gods because they are like unto Jehovah who is the law.
kings are gods because they are like Jehovah in reigning.
judges are gods because they are like Jehovah in judging.
Kerwin,I've played this game with you long enough. Here is the bottom line:
IF Jehovah had said, “There are no god-creators besides me”, I would be the first to say His words were LITERAL.
But, since what He did say was, “There are no elohim besides me”, and we KNOW from scripture that there were MANY elohim – His words were emphatical, and NOT literal.
End of story.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 26 2013,04:15) Thanks for your scriptures Abe 
I only wish I had a clue what Abe was saying WITH those scriptures.Abe, do you believe Jesus pre-existed? I can't tell from the scriptures you've been posting.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God? I can't tell from the scriptures you've been posting.
Also, no one knows the new name Jesus has been given. Yet we all know him as our “Lord”. So “Lord” can't be the name above all names that God gave Jesus.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2013,08:36) Then why did Jesus say no one knew the day He would return, no not the angels nor the Son of MAN (Jesus himself) because the Father has Kept it to himself. Pehaps Peter had something else inmind when said that
Or perhaps, Peter was speaking EMPHATICALLY, and not LITERALLY, huh?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2013,08:36) So did Jesus Know “all” things obvisouly not from his own words.
Agreed. So why then did Peter SAY he knew all things? Was Peter speaking LITERALLY when he said that, Gene? YES or NO?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2013,08:36) Mow please go back and answer all the Yes or No questions on page 170 i listed, seems T8 can't ,maybe you can.
I've already answered the first one, and have not heard your response TO my answer.Plus, it's about time YOU to answer the question I've been asking and asking:
Gene, can Jehovah be the “God OF gods” if there truly exist no other gods but Him? YES or NO?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2013,04:36) Mow please go back and answer all the Yes or No questions on page 170 i listed, seems T8 can't ,maybe you can.
Did it ever occur to you that T8 may not have read that page.This is an apt demonstration that you are unable to see more than your own view.
This is proof.
2B,
Jesus, the Son of God, now sits at the right hand of God, having been given the name above all names.
Where does this leave the “other” Son of God, the Holy Spirit?
Was the flesh Son elevated to an even higher position than the original Spirit Son?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2013,06:57) Abe………..Good Post brother, is obvious if God Exhulted Jesus to his right Hand after his resurection, he was not there before or the scripture would have said he returned to where he was before. But no scripture says that Jesus “PREEXISTED at the right hand of God before his resurection. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Peace brother…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,16:54) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 26 2013,04:15) Thanks for your scriptures Abe
I only wish I had a clue what Abe was saying WITH those scriptures.Abe, do you believe Jesus pre-existed? I can't tell from the scriptures you've been posting.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit of God is the Son of God? I can't tell from the scriptures you've been posting.
Also, no one knows the new name Jesus has been given. Yet we all know him as our “Lord”. So “Lord” can't be the name above all names that God gave Jesus.
Hi Mike,Christ is the Beginning of the creation. (WISDOM)
The WORD is another Part of HIM. (WORD)
The Spirit of God is another PART of him. (SPIRIT)
The different parts were created IN the First DAY or (LIGHT).
Im working on it. How did they get separated?
Peace brother…
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 25 2013,17:57) Hi T, Quote how can an man born without a human father be called 100% human ? How can a man born without a human father be called 100% human?
Well, Adam was made without a human father, and He was 100% human.Also it is fact that people can be born from Virgins, though they are usually female and usually exactly identical to their mother.
Quote Adam was a new creation Christ his not a new creation He was when He was risen from the dead (a new creation).
Hi Mike.
Quote That understanding says that Jesus was the “second Adam”, but NOT the “Son of God”. That understanding says that He was the second Adam AND the Son of God.
Adam was called the Son of God.“……the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” Luke 3:38
Quote
It says he was a regular man that the Holy Spirit Son of God worked THROUGH.Not a “regular man” because He was the only sinless man and He was born of a virgin (due to God's foreknowledge).
Quote But we know from many scriptures that Jesus WAS the “only begotten Son of God”, right? The flesh side was the unique Son of God. I have shown you this.
The word used “only Son” or “only begotten” means “unique Son” – if I knew where my post was regarding this I would re-post it… !Quote 2B, answer my question about Mark 1. Do you believe God said “You are my Son” to the Spirit who descended upon Jesus and led him into the wilderness? Or do you think He said those words about Jesus himself?
I believe that he said those words to the flesh Son who was called by he name of Yahshua. BUT the Holy Spirit's name could also have been Yahshua (If you follow)
Hi 2b,( He was when He was risen from the dead (a new creation).)
Col.1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Rev.1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the FIRSTBORN of the DEAD, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
A NEW CEATION INDEED.
Peace brother…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2013,07:31) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:36) Mike, I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other gods are gods only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is god because he is god.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no God but him.
Okay Kerwin,Let's re-write your statement WITHOUT capital letters, and using the word “elohim” instead of “god”.
Mike,
I believe what you say is untrue because I know that all other elohim are elohim only in their likeness to Jehovah while he is elohim because he is elohim.
Jehovah is the first and the last, the a and the z. There is no elohim but him.
Do you see now how the two statements contradict each other? You say there is no elohim but Jehovah, but then explain WHY those others ARE elohim. It's like you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Mike,Those that received the law are gods because they are like unto Jehovah who is the law.
kings are gods because they are like Jehovah in reigning.
judges are gods because they are like Jehovah in judging.
Kerwin,I've played this game with you long enough. Here is the bottom line:
IF Jehovah had said, “There are no god-creators besides me”, I would be the first to say His words were LITERAL.
But, since what He did say was, “There are no elohim besides me”, and we KNOW from scripture that there were MANY elohim – His words were emphatical, and NOT literal.
End of story.
Mike,So your position stands that certain humans are lesser gods because scripture calls them gods.
My position is that humans are called gods because they resemble the one true god in certain ways.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,14:46) 2B, Jesus, the Son of God, now sits at the right hand of God, having been given the name above all names.
Where does this leave the “other” Son of God, the Holy Spirit?
Was the flesh Son elevated to an even higher position than the original Spirit Son?
Mike I believe I have maybe gone a little off track somewhere, possibly through reading and studying other writings. If I go back to where I believe I may have gone off track….. then as to your question ((Was the flesh Son elevated to an even higher position than the original Spirit Son?))….. There is only one true God, and that one true God has a mind and a spirit as we do, and so how could the one true God's own Spirit be less than the one who is seated at the one true God's right hand side?Quote (abe @ Feb. 27 2013,18:01) Hi 2b, ( He was when He was risen from the dead (a new creation).)
Col.1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Rev.1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the FIRSTBORN of the DEAD, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
A NEW CEATION INDEED.
Peace brother…
Amen.
Mike,
We have a mind and we have a spirit, even if we do not understand fully how it all works as to emotions etc, scripture tells us that nobody knows a mans thoughts but the spirit that is in him and likewise nobody knows God's mind except for the spirit that is in him. Man was made in God's image and has a mind and a spirit within him, and scripture tells us that there is a division between soul; spirit; flesh; and thoughts and “heart intentions” (Hebrews 4:12)….. and scripture also says that nobody knows God the Father except for the Son. God has revealed things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.As to the topic, God also has his own spoken word – I have shown you verses regarding this.
Isaiah 55:
10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it to do.See how what was sent was God's word from His own mouth.
“Him” was not in the Greek in John 1, it was “same” or “this” or “it” remember? So I read it as:
'In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and God was the word. The word was in the beginning with God. All things were made through the word, and without the word was not any thing made that was made. In the word was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
'In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
The word was not another God, just as Gods spirit is not another God.
That is silly. If you are made in God's image then your word and your spirit are not two other people are they? They are a part of YOU.
Peace.
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