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Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,02:04) Kerwin,
Can you tell me how Jehovah was the 'First and the Last?'
LU,Jehovah is the first and last God.
He is the a and z God.I studied the issue some time back and found the Jehovah likes to use poetic language in order to teach in some cases. He uses the first and the last at one place in the Old Testament but literally applies it to being God.
The alpha and omega is the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet but we are English speakers so the a and z are a better translation.
Kerwin,
I find it funny that people tell you “not to lean on your own understanding” in two different threads, yet that is exactly what they do!
I was going to post this in the other thread but i will put it here:
“Lean not on your own understanding”.
Is this not what people do? If they do not lean on their own understanding, then they lean instead on other peoples understanding. You see it all of the time. People learn from their parents what to believe if they are raised in a Christian home, or else they learn from church or learn from their churches bible study group, or else they learn from books which explain the scriptures (such as “bible commentaries)……..
And then they try to make out that they are some type of a TEACHER!?
1John 2:27
I write this to you about those who would deceive you;
The anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.
———–
We know who to trust. Not man.
………..Or else they believe that they have some type of a hidden knowledge of who God is and who Jesus is (secret – aka, Gnostics)………Exactly what the early church had to fight against.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2013,08:58) [Paul] was not talking about “all” knowledge in a general sense because not even Jesus had that.
Really Gene?John 21:17
……..Lord, you know all things………So Jesus didn't LITERALLY know ALL things, even though Peter clearly said he did? I guess Peter was speaking EMPHATICALLY, huh? Just like Paul was speaking EMPHATICALLY when he said the disciples had “ALL knowledge”, right?
Gene, can Jehovah be the “God OF gods” if there truly exist no other gods but Him? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,11:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2013,08:58) [Paul] was not talking about “all” knowledge in a general sense because not even Jesus had that.
Really Gene?John 21:17
……..Lord, you know all things………So Jesus didn't LITERALLY know ALL things, even though Peter clearly said he did? I guess Peter was speaking EMPHATICALLY, huh? Just like Paul was speaking EMPHATICALLY when he said the disciples had “ALL knowledge”, right?
Gene, can Jehovah be the “God OF gods” if there truly exist no other gods but Him? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,God isn't saying there are no other God's, but 'wink' 'wink' there really are.
The word “EL-o-heem” defines as:
1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. LeadersHere is what that phrase “El-oheem of EL-o-heem's” means:
“God of Leaders”
“God of Judges”
“God of Angels”There are no 'little gods'.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,02:35) Whatever Gnostics is or was,
it must have crept in and grew.
2beesee,it evolved and adapted.
So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted:
1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars, plus the simple FACT that it CAN be translated that way.)
2. And the Word was a god: (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
3. He was with God in the beginning: (John 17:5)
4. All things were made through him: (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
5. In him was life, and that life was the light of men: (John 5:26, John 8:12)
6. The light shines in the darkness: (Matthew 4:16; John 3:19; 2 Corinthians 4:6)
7. John the Baptist came as a witness to testify concerning that light: (John 1:29-34; 3:26; 5:32-36)
8. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world: (Isaiah 42:6-7; John 3:19, 9:5, 12:35-36, 46; Luke 1:78-79)
9. Though he was in the world, the world did not recognize him: (Isaiah 53:3, John 4:10, Acts 13:27, John 12:37-38, 1 John 3:1)
10. He came to that which was his own: (Col 1:16; Matt 11:27; John 3:35, 13:3, 16:15; Eph 1:10; Heb 1:2)
11. but his own did not receive him: (Luke 9:53; John 5:43; Acts 13:46)
12. to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God: (Acts 4:12; John 3:14-16; Gal 3:26; Heb 2:10; Eph 1:5)
Moving on…………………
14a
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.Supporting scriptures:
1 John 1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.1 John 4:2
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.Philippians 2
6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of a human being.Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do……., God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.Galatians 4
4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2013,11:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,11:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2013,08:58) [Paul] was not talking about “all” knowledge in a general sense because not even Jesus had that.
Really Gene?John 21:17
……..Lord, you know all things………So Jesus didn't LITERALLY know ALL things, even though Peter clearly said he did? I guess Peter was speaking EMPHATICALLY, huh? Just like Paul was speaking EMPHATICALLY when he said the disciples had “ALL knowledge”, right?
Gene, can Jehovah be the “God OF gods” if there truly exist no other gods but Him? YES or NO?
Hi Mike,God isn't saying there are no other God's, but 'wink' 'wink' there really are.
The word “EL-o-heem” defines as:
1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. LeadersHere is what that phrase “El-oheem of EL-o-heem's” means:
“God of Leaders”
“God of Judges”
“God of Angels”There are no 'little gods'.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Mike,You don't need 40 years of bible study to get this.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:52) The word “EL-o-heem” defines as: 1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. Leaders
So then when Jehovah says there are no elohim besides Him, He must be speaking EMPHATICALLY – especially since you just gave us all a list of many other elohim in scripture.Case closed, Ed. I don't have time to deal with your blatant refusal to accept the words of scripture as they were written.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:59) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:52) The word “EL-o-heem” defines as: 1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. Leaders
So then when Jehovah says there are no elohim besides Him, He must be speaking EMPHATICALLY – especially since you just gave us all a list of many other elohim in scripture.Case closed, Ed. I don't have time to deal with your blatant refusal to accept the words of scripture as they were written.
Mike,Isaiah 45:18
King James Version (KJV)18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
Jehovah is the only one that formed the earth and made it, there is none other.
You don't really believe that do you?
If you do then you communicate it poorly.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:59) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:52) The word “EL-o-heem” defines as: 1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. Leaders
So then when Jehovah says there are no elohim besides Him, He must be speaking EMPHATICALLY – especially since you just gave us all a list of many other elohim in scripture.Case closed, Ed. I don't have time to deal with your blatant refusal to accept the words of scripture as they were written.
Mike,Isaiah 45:18
King James Version (KJV)18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
Jehovah is the only one that formed the earth and made it, there is none other.
You don't really believe that do you?
If you do then you communicate it poorly.
kQuote If you do then you communicate it poorly. 
or you are deaf,and blind Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:54) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,02:35) Whatever Gnostics is or was,
it must have crept in and grew.
2beesee,it evolved and adapted.
Kerwin……That is right the false teaching of Jesus being a God was introduced into the church by the Gnostic's and was fought against By John an Paul, and it did grow and adapted by including the Greek Plato concepts of God's being men also.It came into full effect in 325 Ad at the council of Mecia when the Pagan Emperor Constantine adapted this Antichrist teaching as the Empires religion .
These teachings produced three things
1….> that Jesus was a God
2….> that Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.
3…..> that Jesus did not come into his existence as a born human being.
These constitutes what John described as Antichrist. They are the very concepts of “MYSTERY RELIGION” and almost all of present So-called “Christendom”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2013,22:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:54) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,02:35) Whatever Gnostics is or was,
it must have crept in and grew.
2beesee,it evolved and adapted.
Kerwin……That is right the false teaching of Jesus being a God was introduced into the church by the Gnostic's and was fought against By John an Paul, and it did grow and adapt by including the Greek Plato concepts of God's being men also.It came into full effect in 325 Ad at the council of Mecia when the Pagan Emperor Constantine adapted this Antichrist teaching as the Empires religion .
Thees teachings produced three things
1….> that Jesus was a God
2….> that Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.
3…..> that Jesus did not come into his existence as a born human being.
These constitutes what John described as Antichrist. They are the very concepts of “MYSTERY RELIGION” and almost all of present So-called “Christendom”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Gene,I believe the Egyptian doctrine of their kings being the incarnated Sons of God as well as the belief that the gods were merely incarnations of the one God had there effects as well.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,19:52) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:59) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:52) The word “EL-o-heem” defines as: 1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. Leaders
So then when Jehovah says there are no elohim besides Him, He must be speaking EMPHATICALLY – especially since you just gave us all a list of many other elohim in scripture.Case closed, Ed. I don't have time to deal with your blatant refusal to accept the words of scripture as they were written.
Mike,Isaiah 45:18
King James Version (KJV)18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
Jehovah is the only one that formed the earth and made it, there is none other.
You don't really believe that do you?
If you do then you communicate it poorly.
kQuote If you do then you communicate it poorly. or you are deaf,and blind
T,“EMPHATICALLY” is an erroneous belief as it makes more than one god creators.
Jehovah acts and the created channel his actions.
Jehovah is god in the absolute while others are god in the relative.
There is one god in the absolute though there are many gods in the relative.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 23 2013,05:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:54) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,02:35) Whatever Gnostics is or was,
it must have crept in and grew.
2beesee,it evolved and adapted.
Kerwin……That is right the false teaching of Jesus being a God was introduced into the church by the Gnostic's and was fought against By John an Paul, and it did grow and adapt by including the Greek Plato concepts of God's being men also.It came into full effect in 325 Ad at the council of Mecia when the Pagan Emperor Constantine adapted this Antichrist teaching as the Empires religion .
Thees teachings produced three things
1….> that Jesus was a God
2….> that Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.
3…..> that Jesus did not come into his existence as a born human being.
These constitutes what John described as Antichrist. They are the very concepts of “MYSTERY RELIGION” and almost all of present So-called “Christendom”. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Gene and Kerwin,
It appears at least from the Shepherd of Hermas and Wikipedia that there was two competing views — one that Jesus was a man — and the other that Jesus was god/man — and it all came to a close at the council of Nicea 325ad.
It also seems to me that if one were to chose Jesus as a man, that they are then condemned by most, as not knowing him.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:45) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,19:52) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:59) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,18:52) The word “EL-o-heem” defines as: 1. God
2. Angels
3. Judges
4. Leaders
So then when Jehovah says there are no elohim besides Him, He must be speaking EMPHATICALLY – especially since you just gave us all a list of many other elohim in scripture.Case closed, Ed. I don't have time to deal with your blatant refusal to accept the words of scripture as they were written.
Mike,Isaiah 45:18
King James Version (KJV)18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
Jehovah is the only one that formed the earth and made it, there is none other.
You don't really believe that do you?
If you do then you communicate it poorly.
kQuote If you do then you communicate it poorly. or you are deaf,and blind
T,“EMPHATICALLY” is an erroneous belief as it makes more than one god creators.
Jehovah acts and the created channel his actions.
Jehovah is god in the absolute while others are god in the relative.
There is one god in the absolute though there are many gods in the relative.
Kem·phat·ic (m-ftk)
adj.
1. Expressed or performed with emphasis: responded with an emphatic “no.”
2. Forceful and definite in expression or action.
3. Standing out in a striking and clearly defined way.Quote “EMPHATICALLY” is an erroneous belief as it makes more than one god creators. it seems to me that you have lost your north ,how can your definition of emphatically be erroneous
you are truly working again the grain of the wood here you do not make sens ,
and no one dough about God almighty being the only true God and creator,
and so any other called god would not be the ALMIGHTY GOD but be lower ,right
so simple ,elementary (WATSON) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,23:13) Jehovah is the only one that formed the earth and made it, there is none other. You don't really believe that do you?
If you do then you communicate it poorly.
First, I've never in my life stated anything different, Kerwin.Second, I have argued over and over against Trinitarians and Kathi that Jehovah ALONE created all things THROUGH His Son Jesus Christ – just like the scriptures teach.
Surely you've had to have seen my green Tertullian posts by now?
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
Perhaps it is your communication skills that are lacking?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,13:45) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,19:52) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:13) If you do then you communicate it poorly.
k or you are deaf,and blind
T,“EMPHATICALLY” is an erroneous belief as it makes more than one god creators.
That's not even close to being true, Kerwin. The fact that there ARE scripturally MANY elohim says nothing about there being many “god creators”. Just tell it like the scriptures tell it, man.Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,13:45) Jehovah is god in the absolute while others are god in the relative.
And I suppose if there was a scripture in which Jehovah claimed to be the only “elohim IN THE ABSOULUTE”, I would take His statement as a literal one.But as it is, He claims that there are no elohim besides Him. And since scriptures teach of many elohim, Jehovah was either speaking emphatically when He said those words, or He was lying. Which one do you think, Kerwin?
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