- This topic has 3,161 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Terraricca,
If you are going to comment, could you instead please just stick to scriptures rather than judge other people, please?
Thank you.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,19:42) WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT JESUS WAS CONCEIVED THROUGH MAN AS EVERYBODY ELSE WAS? I SAID THAT JESUS WAS CONCEIVED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, JUST AS SCRIPTURES SAY.
Uh oh, 2B! If Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit, who is the Son of God, then Jesus would have to be the GRANDSON of God – not His Son.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,18:09) I said that they were “as if one”.
Big difference.
This is what you said, from page 43:Therefore Jesus the man and the Holy Spirit/Son became as one.
What does it mean that they “became as one”? I understood that to mean they “merged together” and became one Son of God.
What does it really mean?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,10:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2013,17:12) Hi Mike, You really mean misquote, do you not?
Running away is really your only option.
No Ed,Since the words “And unto the Son he saith” are not even IN the Psalm Paul was quoting, the term “miswrote” is correct.
And I don't “run away” from you. I willingly walk away from your nonsense.
SpinQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,10:14) So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted: 1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars)
2. Jesus is called a god in scripture. (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
3. Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5)
4. All things were said to have been made through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
5. In Jesus was life. (John 5:26)
6. Jesus was the “light of the world”, and the “light of life”. (John 8:12)
7. Jesus was the light that shined in the darkness. (Matthew 4:16, 2 Corinthians 4:6)
Moving on…………….
6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Who did John come to testify about?
John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said………..31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.
John 3:26
They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”John 5
32 There is another that bears witness about me, and I know that the witness which he bears about me is true.33 You have dispatched men to John, and he has borne witness to the truth.
36 But I have the witness greater than that of John…………
Is there any question as to who John the Baptist came to prepare the way for and testify about? Of course, this one was none other than Jesus Christ, our Lord.
So once again, the very things said about “the Word” in John 1 are said about “Jesus” in many other scriptures. The comparisons are really piling up, guys. And I'm only about half way there.
And more spinQuote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,07:42) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2013,13:28) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,06:12) Mike, Jesus did not existed until His conception on Earth, whereas, the Holy Spirit has always existed.
2bbshow me in scriptures that this what you say is true
you have not yet answered my quotes;
it is not what you believe that counts but what scriptures are saying ;
many believed that Joseph was Jesus father BUT WAS HE
if CHRIST DID NOT HAVE A HUMAN FATHER THEN HOW COULD TRULY HIS MOTHER CONCEIVE HIM IN THE SAME MANNER JUST LIKE SHE WOULD HAVE DONE IF SHE WOULD HAVE BECOME PREGNANT WITH A HUMAN HUSBAND
?TO DAY WE CALL THOSE A SURROGATE MOTHER ,
THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE HUMAN RACE OF THE SIN OF ADAM ” NO MAN BORN OF HUMAN PARENTS COULD PAY THAT PRICE ,
IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
JESUS CHRIST WAS ,HIS AND STILL HIS THE SON OF GOD “THE WORD”IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT YOU HAVE NOT COME TO KNOW YOUR GOD OR HIS SON ,AMEN
Terraircca,Quote
IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT YOU HAVE NOT COME TO KNOW YOUR GOD OR HIS SON ,AMENYou cannot say who has come to know the Father and the Son because you are not in the position to do that. That is so wrong Terraricca.
Quit it.
Knowledge will not save you, only your heart and intentions will save you.
Quote if CHRIST DID NOT HAVE A HUMAN FATHER THEN HOW COULD TRULY HIS MOTHER CONCEIVE HIM IN THE SAME MANNER JUST LIKE SHE WOULD HAVE DONE IF SHE WOULD HAVE BECOME PREGNANT WITH A HUMAN HUSBAND ?TO DAY WE CALL THOSE A SURROGATE MOTHER ,
THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE HUMAN RACE OF THE SIN OF ADAM ” NO MAN BORN OF HUMAN PARENTS COULD PAY THAT PRICE ,
WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT JESUS WAS CONCEIVED THROUGH MAN AS EVERYBODY ELSE WAS? I SAID THAT JESUS WAS CONCEIVED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, JUST AS SCRIPTURES SAY.
He was the second Adam.
God knew beforehand that Jesus would be sinless – because God knows everything before it happens to us. So due to God's foreknowledge, He made Jesus the second Adam. Jesus had no Father of flesh.
2beeQuote od knew beforehand that Jesus would be sinless – because God knows everything before it happens to us. So due to God's foreknowledge, He made Jesus the second Adam. Jesus had no Father of flesh. why are you making thing bigger than they are ::”knew beforehand “” this words what do they mean
beside that God does what he wants ,when he wants,how he wants ,those are not magic words ,DOES NOT GOD PLAN THINGS WAY ,WAY BACK FROM THE BEGINNING ,WHY
TELL ME WHO WILL STOP HIM IF HE SAYS THAT'S THE WAY I WILL DO IT READ THE SCRIPTURES AND SEE ,
THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE THE HUMAN RACE OF THE SIN OF ADAM ” NO MAN BORN OF HUMAN PARENTS COULD PAY THAT PRICE ,
ALL HAVE SINNED ,ALL FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD ,INCLUDING MARY THE WOMEN THAT GIVE BIRTH TO THE CHRIST.IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IT YOU HAVE NOT COME TO KNOW YOUR GOD OR HIS SON ,AMEN
I say this for you to understand that it is more important to know God and the one he send than anything else,
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Jn 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.millions of so called Christians says that they believe in God and yet wen you talk to them EVERY ONE TELLS WHAT HE BELIEVES IN SCRIPTURES;GOD THROUGH CHRIST HAS GIVEN US HIS GRACE AND TO BENEFIT FROM IT WE HAVE TO DO IT HIS WAY “” NOT OUR WAY”””MAY GOD BLESS YOU MY FRIEND
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 11 2013,08:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,10:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2013,17:12) Hi Mike, You really mean misquote, do you not?
Running away is really your only option.
No Ed,Since the words “And unto the Son he saith” are not even IN the Psalm Paul was quoting, the term “miswrote” is correct.
And I don't “run away” from you. I willingly walk away from your nonsense.
Spin
EDJYOU ARE SINKING
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,08:00) Terraricca, If you are going to comment, could you instead please just stick to scriptures rather than judge other people, please?
Thank you.
2BEEyou can always find your scriptures and show me that what I say is wrong ,and not in scriptures ,and I do not judge you ,you do that to your self wen you read my comment , may God bless you my friend ,
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,06:12) Mike, Jesus did not existed until His conception on Earth, whereas, the Holy Spirit has always existed.
2beewere are your scriptures that says that ,because all scriptures are saying that he existed before the foundation of the earth ,that he is the first creation of God ,this is why he his the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,15:14) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,18:09) I said that they were “as if one”.
Big difference.
This is what you said, from page 43:Therefore Jesus the man and the Holy Spirit/Son became as one.
What does it mean that they “became as one”? I understood that to mean they “merged together” and became one Son of God.
What does it really mean?
Mike,
I am trying to figure that out. Am I allowed to say “I don't know for sure yet”
It will come to me. I have been praying.
(That must have taken you a while to find)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,13:14) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 10 2013,18:09) I said that they were “as if one”.
Big difference.
This is what you said, from page 43:Therefore Jesus the man and the Holy Spirit/Son became as one.
What does it mean that they “became as one”? I understood that to mean they “merged together” and became one Son of God.
What does it really mean?
Mike……….Just like a marriage the two “become “AS” “ONE” but truly they are not one and the same Person. 2besee did not say they were one, he meant it like said Jesus the “Father and me are One” (in agreement and therefore in action) . Why can't you understand that Mike?I noticed you did not commit on my complete post Reguarding Hebrews, but just piece milled it , why is that Mike. Just running over or neglecting our responses is hardly what i would call good dialog Mike.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Mike……..Where is you commit about Satan saying in Genesis 3:5 to Eve the same thing you are saying about us being “gods”. I notice you neglect a lot of the scriptures i have quoted and act as if they don't exist in scriptures to push forth you own views , why is that Mile? Please go back and answer those “quoted” scriptures, before throwing out more.
I have said many times here, one of the biggest problems in religion is people do not understanding what Spirit “IS”. Just understanding that alone would clear up so many scriptures and many false assumptions to.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2013,17:00) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,06:12) Mike, Jesus did not existed until His conception on Earth, whereas, the Holy Spirit has always existed.
2beewere are your scriptures that says that ,because all scriptures are saying that he existed before the foundation of the earth ,that he is the first creation of God ,this is why he his the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
T,Show me where scriptures say that Jesus was the first creation of God.
Also,
Do you know what the anointing means?
Do you also know that1Six days later, Jesus took Peter, James, and his brother John and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2His appearance was changed in front of them, his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light. 3Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Jesus.
4Then Peter told Jesus, “Lord, it’s good that we’re here! If you want, I’ll set up three shelters —one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5He was still speaking when a bright cloud suddenly overshadowed them.
A voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him. Keep on listening to him!”
6When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified.
7But Jesus came up to them and touched them, saying, “Get up, and stop being afraid.” 8When they raised their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus all by himself.
9On their way down the mountain, Jesus ordered them, “Don’t tell anyone about this vision until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”
10So the disciples asked him, “Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11He answered them, “Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things. 12But I tell you that Elijah has already come, yet people did not recognize him and treated him just as they pleased. In the same way, the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13Then the disciples understood that he had been speaking to them about John the Baptist.
Elijah came, but was known as John the Baptist.
Was John the Baptist a man, who had the Spirit of Elijah?
Elias is come already – That is, John the Baptist has come, in the spirit and power of Elias.
Isaiah 11
1“A shoot will come out
from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch will bear fruit
from his roots.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and power,
the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the LORD.
3His delight will be in the fear of the LORD.
He won’t judge by what his eyes see,
nor decide disputes by what his ears hear,
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
and decide with equity for earth’s poor.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and the wicked will be killed with the breath of his lips.
5Righteousness will be the sash around his loins,
and faithfulness the belt around his waist.”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted: 1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars)
2. Jesus is called a god in scripture. (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
3. Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5)
4. All things were said to have been made through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
5. In Jesus was life. (John 5:26)
6. Jesus was the “light of the world”, and the “light of life”. (John 8:12)
7. Jesus was the light that shined in the darkness. (Matthew 4:16, 2 Corinthians 4:6)
Moving on…………….
6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Who did John come to testify about?
John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said………..31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.
John 3:26
They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”John 5
32 There is another that bears witness about me, and I know that the witness which he bears about me is true.33 You have dispatched men to John, and he has borne witness to the truth.
36 But I have the witness greater than that of John…………
Is there any question as to who John the Baptist came to prepare the way for and testify about? Of course, this one was none other than Jesus Christ, our Lord.
So once again, the very things said about “the Word” in John 1 are said about “Jesus” in many other scriptures. The comparisons are really piling up, guys. And I'm only about half way there.
Mike,
God is called the light in the world, I have shown you scripture.
The light of God was seen in Jesus Christ the anointed.The Spirit of Elijah came as “John the Baptist”.
The Holy Spirit came as “Jesus”.Your Son of God is a little god, preexisted as some type of created thing.
The Son of God that i am learning about was not preexisted as some little god, but was the Holy Spirit of the one God.Hi Mike.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted: Quote 1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars) But the spirit of truth tells us if we are listening, that this is not so.
Quote 2. Jesus is called a god in scripture. (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.) Yes. I agree.
As He had the Spirit in Him without measure, then He can rightly be called God – as God's mouthpiece.Quote 3. Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5) Where does it say that, again?
The Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus was with God in the beginning.
Just as your Spirit is with you.
The Father is the mind and the Spirit is the Spirit. One God.Quote 4. All things were said to have been made through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2) I have shown you other ways that the words of Paul can be translated, and also.
If you are talking about John 1………….
All things were made through the Holy Spirit and through God's spoken word (Logos)
(Genesis 1).Quote 5. In Jesus was life. (John 5:26) Yes.
IN Jesus was life,
and light.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,03:19) Am I allowed to say “I don't know for sure yet”
Absolutely. I prefer that to nonsensical mishmash designed to cover one's ass about something they posted, that they now realize is unscriptural or inaccurate.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,03:19) (That must have taken you a while to find)
About 32 seconds, actually. (I had a fairly good idea where it was. )Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2013,08:46) I noticed you did not commit on my complete post Reguarding Hebrews, but just piece milled it , why is that Mike.
Really Gene?How many times have I told you that if you make a big post, I will skim it, and cherry pick the one thing I WANT to respond to?
If there are particular points you made in that post that you would like me to address, then put ONE of those points in ONE post. I will address the point. Then, put another ONE of those points in ANOTHER post. I will address that point. And so on, and so on.
Gene, I love you, but must be honest with you……….. you RARELY directly address any of the points I make that shoot down your points. (Ie: I'm STILL waiting to hear YOUR response about how “only God is good”, yet OTHER people are also good in scripture. I want to know how YOU THINK Jehovah could say He was the ONLY elohim, but then speak about many OTHER elohim, like judges, angels, Satan, etc.)
So if I were you, I wouldn't get too worked up over a missed question that was hidden in a huge post. You are still WAY behind me in the answers versus questions race.
peace,
mikeQuote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,14:14) Hi Mike. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted: Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) 1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars) But the spirit of truth tells us if we are listening, that this is not so.
Hi 2B. What if the “spirit of truth” is telling ME that not only is “a god” the truth, but it is the ONLY sensible understanding of the words John wrote? Can God Himself be with God Himself? Even with your understanding that the Word is the Holy Spirit, which is the Son of God, it still ends up being “a god” who was WITH “THE God” in the beginning. (Unless you believe that God the Father actually IS His own “Holy Spirit Son”.)Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,14:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) 2. Jesus is called a god in scripture. (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
Yes. I agree.
As He had the Spirit in Him without measure, then He can rightly be called God – as God's mouthpiece.
So you not only agree that Jesus is called a god in scripture, but that he was “God's mouthpiece“? (The fact that he was God's “mouthpiece” is the reason he is called “the Word of God”. )Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,14:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) 3. Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5)
Where does it say that, again?The Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus was with God in the beginning.
John 17
1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1. Who does the scripture say prayed these things? Jesus? Or “the Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus”?
2. Is eternal life knowing God and “Jesus Christ, whom He sent”? Or is it knowing God and “the Holy Spirit, whom He sent”? Which one, please – according to the words of the scripture?
3. Who is asking to be glorifed with the glory HE HAD before the world began? Jesus Christ, who actually uttered the prayer? Or “the Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus Christ”? (Again 2B, even if you answer “the Holy Spirit”, you must then accept that the Holy Spirit is an entity OTHER THAN God the Father, who had it's/his own glory in the Father's presence before the world began. And in that case, it would still end up being “a god” who was with “THE God” in the beginning.)
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,14:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) 4. All things were said to have been made through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2) I have shown you other ways that the words of Paul can be translated, and also.
Read the first of my quotes above, 2B. I have not claimed that my way is the only way it could be. Instead, I've claimed that the way I'm understanding it cannot be scripturally refuted. For example, you have the choice of translating “dia” as “on account of”, if you want to. But you cannot possibly scripturally refute the translation of “through” – as I understand it. (Also, consider the fact that if YOU insist upon “on account of”, then I could just change John 1:3 to “all things were created on account of the Word”. It would still equate the Word to Jesus. )Also, the “on account of” translation doesn't work so well in Col 1:16………
…..all things were created on account of him and for him.Seems a little redundant, doesn't it?
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,14:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 11 2013,12:14) 5. In Jesus was life. (John 5:26) Yes.
IN Jesus was life,
and light.
Then it's yet another perfect match with “the Word”, right?John 1:4
In him (the Word) was life, and that life was the light of men.And those perfect matches are what I've set out to show you.
2B, when it says “the Word was with God”, who do you think that “God” is? Do you agree with me that the “God” mentioned in part b is “the Father”?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
