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Quote (2besee @ Jan. 25 2013,06:13) So Wakeup… When Jesus said to them “I will come to you” who was speaking? WHO came to them? The Holy Spirit did!
2Besee.He physically went up to his Father; and he sends his spirit down to the apostles.
That same spirit will be with us for ever,unless we fall away from the truth.
That spirit is not with the churches today,because they are preaching their own gospel according to the flesh.wakeup.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 25 2013,08:20) Hi 2besee,
No, I do not agree with Mike and T that the Son was a god. I believe that God is a Father with an offspring and that offspring existed eternally, first within the Father and then was begotten from the Father before creation. The offspring is the only begotten God. Though it seems like two Gods, they are one God in the similar sense that there can be 'one voice', or 'one mind' yet multiple persons. Or you can consider the offspring as a part of the Father, yet the offspring is just like the Father with the same attributes and character. Like Father like Son…Like begets like. Very God from very God, Light from Light…begotten not made, both eternally existent.Please allow scriptures direct you…and let the only begotten God reveal truth.
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Have a great day!
Hi LU,You said “Like begets like.”….
God is spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit and flesh gives birth to flesh.
Quote Please allow scriptures direct you…and let the only begotten God reveal truth. John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
LU, what Bible version are you using!?
The RSV has:
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
The Greek has:
“God no one has seen ever yet only-begotten God the is in the bossom of the Father he declared”
http://biblos.com/john/1-18.htm
Now that may seem to be saying that there are two God's together but we know from other scripture that there is only one God and this is what Jesus taught, it is all through scripture so the wording that Paul used here has to be looked at properly.
Or what am I misunderstanding? (Kerwin, Gene, Anybody?)
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 25 2013,08:37) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 25 2013,06:13) So Wakeup… When Jesus said to them “I will come to you” who was speaking? WHO came to them? The Holy Spirit did!
2Besee.He physically went up to his Father; and he sends his spirit down to the apostles.
That same spirit will be with us for ever,unless we fall away from the truth.
That spirit is not with the churches today,because they are preaching their own gospel according to the flesh.wakeup.
hi Wakeup, yes, there are deceiving spirits and it will get worse, much worse. I believe that we truly are int he end time, the time of great apostasy.Much more to say but, have to go!
LU,
The word translated “he” is not the proper word. It should be: 'that' or 'that one there' or 'yonder'.
Not that it makes much difference, but then again, it could:
“God no one has seen ever, yet only-begotten, God the is in the bossom of the Father, that one there declared”
or “No one has ever seen God, yet the only begotten, who is in the bossom of God the Father, that one there declared.”
My RSV translates it almost exactly the same.
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
2besee……….There is Only ONe true God and that God “IS' SPIRIT. Spirit is not what many think “IT” is, remeber when Jesus told his deciples this “I have spoken to you about the Father in a PROVERBIBAL LANGUAGE (a fictious Illustration) but a time Will come when I shall show you plainly about the Father. Jesus “ personified God who is spirit.
Spiirt can indwell a person Just as “IT” was “IN” Jesus, No spirit is a “Person” they can though be persented as a Person or “PERSONIFIED”. A Spiirt is not any kind of Body “IT” is what is “IN” a Body. God who is Sprit was truly “IN” Jesus and even Spoke through His mouth in an actual Presence as the personification of the Father.
Just like He can us also, remmember when Jesus told us not to prematate what we would say in brought up in court . for “it” will not be you speaking but the Spirit of your Farther speaking in you
God the Father is Spirit and can indeed indwell us all brother and IT (the Spirit) was indeed IN Jesus . IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………….gene
LU………….Spirit is what gives life to “ALL” flesh also.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………gene
Hi Lu,
MOST translations word it as the same.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son— the One who is at the Father's side– He has revealed Him.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.American King James Version
No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .Douay-Rheims Bible
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Darby Bible Translation
No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.English Revised Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Webster's Bible Translation
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Weymouth New Testament
No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom–He has made Him known.World English Bible
No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.There is only one God as scripture tells us and spirit gives birth to spirit and the Holy spirit is the son, I believe. And once you know that then scripture begins to make sense (slowly!).
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 22 2013,19:55) So, Mike, when you say all other things were created through Jesus, then you must admit that all other things were not directly created by the Father. Do you see that?
Not at all, Kathi……… because none us know exactly what the words “through Jesus” mean.Was Jesus like a prism that God refracted light through, thereby DIRECTLY creating many wonderful colors THROUGH Jesus?
The fact that God created all things, by Himself but THROUGH Jesus, doesn't say Jesus created anything at all. Nor does it say that God DIDN'T create all things, alone and by Himself.
We can only go by the scriptures, Kathi. God ALONE created all things. He did this THROUGH His holy servant Jesus Christ.
Let me remind you of the prayer in Acts 4:
Acts 4
24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
This prayer tells us a few things for sure, Kathi:
1. The “God” to whom Peter and John prayed “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”.2. Jesus is NOT the “God” to whom they prayed, but the holy servant OF that “God”.
3. Therefore, since Jesus is not the “God” to whom they prayed, he is not the “God” who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”.
4. Furthermore, since Jesus is not the “God” who “made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, he has no choice but to BE one of the “everything in them” that was made BY the “God” to whom Peter and John prayed.
So, in just one little passage of scripture, all the questions are clearly answered for us. Yet you know from past discussions that I have another 8 or 9 passages like this that teach the same exact thing, ie: Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the one who created all things.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,01:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,12:44) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,11:45) I met Mike and so hope was made flesh.
Okay, good. Now at least you are using the word “was” in your sample. Can you find me an example from anywhere in history where someone wrote similar words that would give creedence to your example sentence?
I have a good example. Two people meet each other over the Internet. One day they meet in the flesh. They knew each other by their words… and then one day their words become flesh.It happens all of the time Mike,
What I'm looking for, 2B, is an example of such language being used in any published writing in the history of the world. You can Google it, and see if you can find that language anywhere on the Net.2bee
that video of yours stinks ,if you think that I listen to that crap ,your are wrong,if you don't believe it why do you send this garbage to me
you must think that i am now senile 
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,01:37) Could you show me where exactly it says that 'Angels are called “gods”'? I must have missed it, thank you.
Perhaps what you said was that angels of God are called “YHWH” in scripture. Did you say that one?Anyway, it matters not if you said it:
Judges 13
21 When the angel of the Lord did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the Lord.22 “We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!”
There you go: an angel of Jehovah being called a god. So let me ask you again:
Do you really think those faithful angels of God, who did not create the heavens and the earth, will perish from under heaven? Do you think it is these good, faithful “gods” that Jehovah is talking about in that passage? YES or NO, please.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,01:37) Remind you of what scripture says “and there was no other god beside Him”, again?
who stretched out the heavens alone,
who spread out the earth — Who was with me? —Yeah, the “Who was with me?” part is what I was looking for. It's hard to find translations that render it that way. It seems the vast majority say “by myself” instead. NETNotes says:
The consonantal text (Kethib) has “Who [was] with me?” The marginal reading (Qere) is “from with me,” i.e., “by myself.”I'm not sure what that means, or what the “Qere” is, but Clarke's Commentary on the Bible says:
By myself – Thirteen MSS., six ancient, confirm the reading of the Keri (Qere), מאתי meittai.I'm still not sure what it all means, but I will point out that God was definitely not literally “by Himself” when He created the earth, for the angels shouted for joy when He did it. (Job 38:4-7) Also, when God created man, He said, “Let US make man in OUR image” – obviously speaking to and about the divine heavenly counsel of angels and other spirit beings. So obviously, others were “with Him” when He created mankind.
So while I believe God did create all things “by Himself”, He wasn't completely isolated from others as He did it. There were beings “with Him” as He created.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,02:11) It is God's own spirit (not another “god”).
2B,It has become clear to me that I've given you way to much leeway. You are not DIRECTLY addressing any of my points, and just keep claiming what you WANT to be the truth, despite the clear, scriptural evidence to the contrary.
I now realize I'll have to “buckle down” on you a bit.
2B, I've asked before, and am still waiting for your scriptures that speak of God's Holy Spirit being His “only begotten son”, or of God's Holy Spirit having a glory of its own.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,02:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,13:51) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:28) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,09:08) Mike, so if according to you, another god made the earth too,
Correction, according to you and others, through. (same thing).
I disagree that it is the “same thing”, 2B.Tertullian wrote: He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
And Paul wrote: there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
I see the difference in all things coming FROM God, and THROUGH Jesus. Tertullian clearly saw this difference as well. Apparently, you don't yet see it.
(As a side note: Whatever is included in the “all things” that came FROM God, are included in the “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus. So if angels came FROM God, then angels came THROUGH Jesus. If the heavens and earth came FROM God, then the heavens and earth came THROUGH Jesus. Colossians 1:16 actually teaches these things word for word.
And t8 just posted Jude 1:25, which says that power and majesty are and have been TO our God, THROUGH Jesus Christ, now, before the ages, and forever. It makes perfect sense that Jesus was around “before the ages”, since Hebrews 1:2 tells us that those ages were in fact created THROUGH Jesus Christ.)
Hi Mike.
Tertullian? What date was that written?
This is what I'm talking about, 2B. A whole post full of valuable, scriptural tidbits, and you only commented on the Tertullian part? Here comes the “buckling down” part again:1. 2B, according to 1 Cor 8:6, did ALL THINGS come FROM the Father, and THROUGH Jesus Christ? YES or NO?
2. Is it then assumable that the same “ALL THINGS” that came FROM the Father also came THROUGH Jesus Christ? YES or NO?
3. Is “the earth” one of the “ALL THINGS” that came FROM the Father? YES or NO?
4. Doesn't it then stand to reason that “the earth” is also one of the “ALL THINGS” that came THROUGH Jesus Christ?
5. In fact, does Col 1:16 list some of the “ALL THINGS” that were created THROUGH Jesus Christ? YES or NO?
6. Does Col 1:16 say, “things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him”? YES or NO?
7. Does Jude 1:25 say that “glory, majesty, power and authority” have come TO God THROUGH Jesus Christ “before all ages”? YES or NO?
8. Does that make sense since Hebrews 1:2 says the God created the ages THROUGH Jesus Christ? YES or NO?
See 2B? These are some of the points I made in that post. They are the points you just completely overlooked. I will not post to you like this from now on. Instead, I will ask you ONE question, and wait for a DIRECT answer to that ONE question.
I see that bigger posts make you think you can just avoid the valid, scriptural points I've made. Now I've learned how to discuss scriptures with you. Get ready to scripturally defend your beliefs.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 25 2013,02:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 25 2013,08:20) Hi 2besee,
No, I do not agree with Mike and T that the Son was a god. I believe that God is a Father with an offspring and that offspring existed eternally, first within the Father and then was begotten from the Father before creation. The offspring is the only begotten God. Though it seems like two Gods, they are one God in the similar sense that there can be 'one voice', or 'one mind' yet multiple persons. Or you can consider the offspring as a part of the Father, yet the offspring is just like the Father with the same attributes and character. Like Father like Son…Like begets like. Very God from very God, Light from Light…begotten not made, both eternally existent.Please allow scriptures direct you…and let the only begotten God reveal truth.
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Have a great day!
Hi LU,You said “Like begets like.”….
God is spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit and flesh gives birth to flesh.
Quote Please allow scriptures direct you…and let the only begotten God reveal truth. John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
LU, what Bible version are you using!?
The RSV has:
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
The Greek has:
“God no one has seen ever yet only-begotten God the is in the bossom of the Father he declared”
http://biblos.com/john/1-18.htm
Now that may seem to be saying that there are two God's together but we know from other scripture that there is only one God and this is what Jesus taught, it is all through scripture so the wording that Paul used here has to be looked at properly.
Or what am I misunderstanding? (Kerwin, Gene, Anybody?)
2beesee,The original manuscripts vary on the exact wording according to some reports. Interpretations of those variations widen the possible meaning of John 1:18.
God has many meanings in Scripture though our culture is prone to use it as a name for Yawheh.
Let us examine these words from KJV of 1 Corinthians 2:11.
“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?”
Notice Scripture calls the spirit of a man, man.
The same is true with God.
Some “Jesus is Yawheh” believers seem to like the “only begotten God” manuscripts but I see no significant difference with the “only begotten Son” ones.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,05:51) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,01:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,12:44) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,11:45) I met Mike and so hope was made flesh.
Okay, good. Now at least you are using the word “was” in your sample. Can you find me an example from anywhere in history where someone wrote similar words that would give creedence to your example sentence?
I have a good example. Two people meet each other over the Internet. One day they meet in the flesh. They knew each other by their words… and then one day their words become flesh.It happens all of the time Mike,
What I'm looking for, 2B, is an example of such language being used in any published writing in the history of the world. You can Google it, and see if you can find that language anywhere on the Net.
Mike,Quote The history of CME shows that given men of the caliber of Drs. Magan and Evans the miracle can be made to work. Medical and religious ideas can co-mingle usefully. Through these men particularly the hope was made flesh, the dream came true. Against enormous obstacles, after years of privation and poverty, they managed to enlist enough medical, denominational, and community support to build a good medical school. Here is my source.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:43) It is easy to see that the only begotten is the Spirit and Jesus is the Chief of those that he has revealed/declared God too.
Oh brother! Is anyone else seeing this? Kerwin is making his case that the HOLY SPIRIT is the “only begotten Son of God”!Kerwin, there is not one thing in those scriptures you quoted that would lead ANY sensible person to believe what you're stating.
My God, man! How FAR will you go to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what you WANT them to teach?
To ALL:
WHO, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, IS THE “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD?
My answer is “Jesus Christ”.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:43) Galatians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Is Paul speaking of Jesus when he states “Son in me” or is he speaking of the Spirit?
NETNotes add this footnote about the word “in”:
tn Or “to me”; the Greek preposition ἐν (en) can mean either, depending on the context.Paul is OBVIOUSLY speaking about Jesus.
1 John 4
9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Kerwin, the only begotten Son of God died as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Who did that for us? The Holy Spirit? Or Jesus Christ?
It is clear to all that you KNOW “the Word” is the one who is the “only begotten Son of God”. But you don't WANT “the Word” to be Jesus, because then you'll have to believe all the other things said in John 1 about “the Word/Jesus”. But you have really gone off the deep end with this one, Kerwin.
I am happy that you are finally realizing that all the words said in John 1 about the Word, are simultaneously being said about God's only begotten Son.
Perhaps, once you regain your senses, and remember that Jesus is CLEARLY the “only begotten Son of God”, you'll still remember the other part – that all things said about “the Word” in John 1 are said about “Jesus” – because they are one and the same.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,14:21) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:43) It is easy to see that the only begotten is the Spirit and Jesus is the Chief of those that he has revealed/declared God too.
Oh brother! Is anyone else seeing this? Kerwin is making his case that the HOLY SPIRIT is the “only begotten Son of God”!Kerwin, there is not one thing in those scriptures you quoted that would lead ANY sensible person to believe what you're stating.
My God, man! How FAR will you go to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what you WANT them to teach?
To ALL:
WHO, ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, IS THE “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD?
My answer is “Jesus Christ”.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:43) Galatians 1:16
King James Version (KJV)16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Is Paul speaking of Jesus when he states “Son in me” or is he speaking of the Spirit?
NETNotes add this footnote about the word “in”:
tn Or “to me”; the Greek preposition ἐν (en) can mean either, depending on the context.Paul is OBVIOUSLY speaking about Jesus.
1 John 4
9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Kerwin, the only begotten Son of God died as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Who did that for us? The Holy Spirit? Or Jesus Christ?
It is clear to all that you KNOW “the Word” is the one who is the “only begotten Son of God”. But you don't WANT “the Word” to be Jesus, because then you'll have to believe all the other things said in John 1 about “the Word/Jesus”. But you have really gone off the deep end with this one, Kerwin.
I am happy that you are finally realizing that all the words said in John 1 about the Word, are simultaneously being said about God's only begotten Son.
Perhaps, once you regain your senses, and remember that Jesus is CLEARLY the “only begotten Son of God”, you'll still remember the other part – that all things said about “the Word” in John 1 are said about “Jesus” – because they are one and the same.
Mike, then in that case, you would have to believe that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit, however – how could that be – because Jesus is also referred to as the Son of Man, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.I do believe that you will never see this regardless of what ever scriptures are shown to you. This is something that only God can reveal and 'in His own time' and to 'who he will reveal it to' but if you rely on yourself and demand answers when you want them…. then you are doing it in your time.
How I understand three key scriptures as shown to me by God – you are not seeing the same thing.
Maybe with time.
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